IAF Mirage 2000

[Neptune]

US purchase of Russian engines was not due to lack of expertise in the US to man8facture rocket engines. It hsppened after the collapse of the Cold War when Russia had lots of surplus rocket engines. Later on the practice was continued because Russian engines were cheap.

But rocket engine in the US is very advanced. Just look at SpaceX, Blue Origin and all American space start ups. Where do you think their tech came came from?

The US could not make an equivalent of the RD-180, in efficiency, thrust and safely. The engines are also not cheap, the US recently purchased more of the engines for the Atlas V after the engines were “banned”.

Space X engines are also weak, they have to use like 4 to get the equivalent thrust of a RD-180.

 

[BON PLAN]

The US continues to purchase low quality Russian rocket engines in which if failed for decades to make an equivalent.

There was an economic huge opportunitie there.

Don't forget USA was able to walk on the moon all alone.... so no probleme to built another rocket engine if needed.

 

[Bhurki]

Why aren't Armée de l'Air Française's M2K being replaced by Rafale?
Having spent a fortune on this project, it's weird only 180(136+44M) have been ordered.
Including development costs, Rafale is the most expensive jet in the world.( unless more are ordered)
Rafale Program- $67.2B for 180 jets
(Not including 30 future F4 since more funds required to implement Block upgrade)
F22 Program - $67.3B for 197 jets

 

[asianobserve]

The US could not make an equivalent of the RD-180, in efficiency, thrust and safely. The engines are also not cheap, the US recently purchased more of the engines for the Atlas V after the engines were “banned”.

Space X engines are also weak, they have to use like 4 to get the equivalent thrust of a RD-180.

You obviously don't know what you're talking about:


So where is Russia there? At the bottom of the pack.

Here's SpaceX's Star Hopper prototype testing using Raptor Engines:


And here's the more complete Mk1 prototype of just the top of SpaceX planned interplanetary rocket being readied for testing:


And we're not talking yet of Blue Origin or NASA's new SLS rocket:


So again where is Russia?

 

[asianobserve]

And look at how SpaceX boosters return to earth like a Bolshoi ballet!


So again, where is Russia?

 

[Neptune]

You obviously don't know what you're talking about:


So where is Russia there? At the bottom of the pack.

Here's SpaceX's Star Hopper prototype testing using Raptor Engines:


And here's the more complete Mk1 prototype of just the top of SpaceX planned interplanetary rocket being readied for testing:


And we're not talking yet of Blue Origin or NASA's new SLS rocket:


So again where is Russia?

No you don’t know what you are talking about that list includes US rockets with Russian engines, you should also search the Energia it creates 6.5 million lbs thrust and had an LEO of 220,000 lbs

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energia


The Russians created one of the most powerful rocket engines in terms of thrust. Some of the rockets on the list have weak engines, they just happen to use many engines like Space X with its Merlin engines which only achieves about 25% of the RD-180 thrust.

 

[Neptune]

There was an economic huge opportunitie there.

Don't forget USA was able to walk on the moon all alone.... so no probleme to built another rocket engine if needed.

The Soviet Union and Russia created and still creates some of the most powerful, reliable and sophisticated engines ever. It had nothing to do with economics, the US recently purchased more Russian engines after supposedly sanctioning them years ago. They still trust the RD-180s more then any other engine.

Anyways, back to topic about the Mirage.

 

[asianobserve]

No you don’t know what you are talking about that list includes US rockets with Russian engines, you should also search the Energia it creates 6.5 million lbs thrust and had an LEO of 220,000 lbs

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energia


The Russians created one of the most powerful rocket engines in terms of thrust. Some of the rockets on the list have weak engines, they just happen to use many engines like Space X with its Merlin engines which only achieves about 25% of the RD-180 thrust.

You must be confused. None of the US most powerful US rockets in that video have Russian engine!

And here is the most powerful Soviet (which Russia can claim its own) N-1 moon rocket. All 4 examples failed!

 

[asianobserve]

The Soviet Union and Russia created and still creates some of the most powerful, reliable and sophisticated engines ever. It had nothing to do with economics, the US recently purchased more Russian engines after supposedly sanctioning them years ago. They still trust the RD-180s more then any other engine.

These most sophisticated Russian rocket engines are Soviet left-overs. And they are Jurassic by current rocket technology standatds.

 

[Neptune]

These most sophisticated Russian rocket engines are Soviet left-overs. And they are Jurassic by current rocket technology standatds.

Newer breakthroughs in software and metallurgy mean newer Russian engines are light years better then the Soviet stock. Even if I was to take your comments seriously why do Americans still buy and send their most sophisticated payloads using Russian engines? Why would Super sophisticated Americans use Jurassic technology from a country they hate?

 

[Neptune]

You must be confused. None of the US most powerful US rockets in that video have Russian engine!

And here is the most powerful Soviet (which Russia can claim its own) N-1 moon rocket. All 4 examples failed!

Wrong the Atlas V on that video uses the RD-180, and yes, Soviet engines were Russian, they don’t need to claim anything, it’s a fact.

 

[Bhurki]

STOP! Read the name of the Thread !

 

[BON PLAN]

Why aren't Armée de l'Air Française's M2K being replaced by Rafale?
Having spent a fortune on this project, it's weird only 180(136+44M) have been ordered.
Including development costs, Rafale is the most expensive jet in the world.( unless more are ordered)
Rafale Program- $67.2B for 180 jets
(Not including 30 future F4 since more funds required to implement Block upgrade)
F22 Program - $67.3B for 197 jets

Because there remain some very potent Mirage in our fleet.
M2000-5F are to be replaced in some years.
55 of the M2000D are currently upgraded

No, Rafale is not the most expensive plane in the world. The last program review, made in 2014, calculated the overall programm to less than 47€billion for a final quantity of 286. Do the math. EF2000 and F22 are less affordable. Not to speak of F35 whose entire program cost are not known, and with several contracts appart to deal with some flaws.
There will be at least another batch of Rafale after the 180 on order. 45 planes are likely.

 

[asianobserve]

Wrong the Atlas V on that video uses the RD-180, and yes, Soviet engines were Russian, they don’t need to claim anything, it’s a fact.

There is no Atlas V rocket in that video since Atlas is old tech and weak. The video only mentioned Delta IV Heavy and it does not use any old and cheap Russian engine.

 

[Bhurki]

less than 47€billion for a final quantity of 286.

That EUR47 billion cost is for 180 jets procured (28 yet to be delivered) and not 286 planned.
Besides the 286 planned was projected keeping in mind the attrition of M2000 in mind. However, due to the M2000 fleet holding just fine over the years with no major war losses or accidents, the future rafale procurement is planned to be no more than an extra 30 jets of F4 standard. So the final tally will be more like 210 than 286.
The development cost of F4 (Eur2B) and procurement cost of 30 jets is not included in the program cost yet.

 

[BON PLAN]

That EUR47 billion cost is for 180 jets procured (28 yet to be delivered) and not 286 planned.
Besides the 286 planned was projected keeping in mind the attrition of M2000 in mind. However, due to the M2000 fleet holding just fine over the years with no major war losses or accidents, the future rafale procurement is planned to be no more than an extra 30 jets of F4 standard. So the final tally will be more like 210 than 286.
The development cost of F4 (Eur2B) and procurement cost of 30 jets is not included in the program cost yet.

NO.
The 47 billion was for a planned 286 (180 already ordered and 106 to come as specified in the defense white book). And don't forget that at those time there was no export.
a 2014 total price calculation is without risk, because the risky bulk of the developpment is ahead. So no risk in the future road map according to the Dassault habit : on time, on spec, on budget.

The situation in 2019 is :
-180 orderd for France. Another tranche of 45 to come so as to fulfill the new white book of 225 planes on line (with the increase of the defense expenditures in France, it's likely that the future white book to be 240 on line...) and because the remaining Mirage 2000 are to be removed in 2030 the latest.
-36 for Qatar,
-36 for India,
-24 for Egypt.
So with the firm orders only, 180+36+36+24 = 276. Very close to the 286 used for the 2014 calculations.

add to that :
at least a last batch of 45 for France.
India will ordered 36 more and may be far more.
Egypt is on track for another 12.
Switzerland is a very hot target for 30 to 60+ planes (the plane already won in 2011, the hottest competitor Gripen is out, SH18 made a poor effect because less agile than FA18, EF2000 too costly and F35 seems far from beiing operational, seen as costly and the field tests needed 4 planes when all the others used 2 was choking).
Denmark is the last target (more difficult than Switzerland).
Morocco to replace Mirage F1?
Greece,
Malaysia,

The Rafale history is far from beiing written.

 

[Bhurki]

Nobody but France paid for the development cost for rafale. The unit price paid by India,qatar is close to OEM price paid by France per unit of manufacturing, meaning they pay zilch towards the dev. cost. Even if France buys 250 rafale, they spent $25B on development, so each jet costs $100M(dev)+$100M(manufacturing) without including any spare parts etc.

 

[Aaj ka hero]

You must be confused. None of the US most powerful US rockets in that video have Russian engine!

And here is the most powerful Soviet (which Russia can claim its own) N-1 moon rocket. All 4 examples failed!

Man now you really are doing ANNOYING DOG type of thing,what is USA to you guys man.
THEY COLONIZED you..... Ah! same evangelical filth religion na.... Man so if they say this is against our God you will also follow with against our God.
You people are VERY GOOD ONLY AT THAT.
Don't worry evangelical are busy CONQUERING south AND now punjab, North East already conquered.
THIS IS THE REASON WHY CONVERTS as well as SOME NRIs ARE MORE dangerous than originals.
Every body in the world know the most powerful and reliable engine is RD series.
And that is russian and soviets built energia as their rocket for Mars but USSR breakup pulled that plan away.
Get OXYGEN please.

 

[asianobserve]

Man now you really are doing ANNOYING DOG type of thing,what is USA to you guys man.
THEY COLONIZED you..... Ah! same evangelical filth religion na.... Man so if they say this is against our God you will also follow with against our God.
You people are VERY GOOD ONLY AT THAT.
Don't worry evangelical are busy CONQUERING south AND now punjab, North East already conquered.
THIS IS THE REASON WHY CONVERTS as well as SOME NRIs ARE MORE dangerous than originals.
Every body in the world know the most powerful and reliable engine is RD series.
And that is russian and soviets built energia as their rocket for Mars but USSR breakup pulled that plan away.
Get OXYGEN please.

Colonializationis not all negative for us. Remember that we have 7,107 islands woth a dizzying array of ethnic groups that were constantly at war with each other. We did not have a concept of being a unified political, economic and social entity pre colonialization.

Then the Spaniards came. Sure the Spanish were terrible colonists. They friars and Spanish administrstors wanrt the biggest tracts of lands for themselves and did not educate the locals, except to be religious (as a means of control). But at least for 400 years they managed to centralize the different ethnic groups under a single sovereign mostly using religion as a pretext, except for about 20% of Southern Mindanao which remained Muslim.

Then when the Americans came they brought with them education for all willing. They started also democratic governance and establishing a centralized and efficient civil service. The Americans then started laying down a nationwide infrastructure system from ports to roads to government complexes. Most importantly the Americans started modernizing the Philippine Army. But of course there were trade offs like preferred trade relations for Americans and military basing.

So by the 1930s the Philippines under Americans experience our golden years with Manila being considered tge "Pearl of the Orient" even better than Hongkong.

But high headed Filipino nationalists couldn't wait longer. They want to "RULE" the country themselves. According to them they'd rather have a Philippines ran like hell by Filipinos than ran well by Americans. So in 1946 the Americans gave us full self-rule.

Now, the first batch of Filipino politiciams and civil servants trained by the Americans were better. Sure they had already tendencies to be corrupt and to gavor families and friends in all from Government job selection to contracts, but largely the losses to these early manifestations of dysfunction in the first generation of Government officials were negligible. So by the 1950s we still mamaged to rate 2nd only to Japan in terms of prosperity. The 60's were okay but everything changed when the very corrupt and totalitsrian Marcos came to power. In his first 2 legitimate terms he was tempered and well liked. But he usirped power later on when the Constitution banned him from seeking a third term. To pacify the military he gave them moneys, looked the other way in their excesses and allowed them to become corrupt. The same happened with the American established bureaucracy. By the 1970s we already had a debt crisis and we've bebome the sick man in Asia.

Looking back, it would have been better if the Americans continued administering the Philippines until the 1980s. Anyway, that's not what happened and I blame the crazy nationalists for it. Now we have an even cracier President Duterte who's selling us to the Chinese!

 

[asianobserve]

Our crazy nationalists reared their stupid ugly heads again in the 1990s when they decided the kick out the US military from their bases in the country, both close to the SCS areas being grabbed by China. I'm sure that had the USN and USAF Znot beeh kicked off China would not dare move into out EEZ. In fact, China immedistely moved into our EEZ after US bases closed in the 90's. F#cking stupid nationalism!