IAF Mirage 2000

AnantS

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What are you even talking about??

Did I mention MiG-29K?? I was talking about the IAF's MiG-29A Baaz that was procured in the 1980s and effectively torpedoed the Mirage-2000 license assembly plans. The MiG-29A gave the IAF severe headaches in the early 1990s with premature failures of the RD-33 engines and various spares being hard to get due to the situation after the Soviet breakup.
Cheap, Soviet candy, kneejerk reaction to F16 purchase. 1980's we were defacto soviet satellite still smoking 71 bonhomie joint. French options though good were always pricey. The intrinsic Baniya within us saw Mig 29 no brainer.
 

MirageBlue

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There was a deal for upgraded engines and AESA radar, new MFDs for the cockpit.
Never heard of this. Got a source to back this up? There was no AESA or upgraded engines considered for the Mirage-2000 upgrade AFAIK. There was a French Mirage-2000 used as a test bed for the Rafale's RBE-2 AESA radar but that was just a flying testbed, nothing more.
 

BON PLAN

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Never heard of this. Got a source to back this up? There was no AESA or upgraded engines considered for the Mirage-2000 upgrade AFAIK. There was a French Mirage-2000 used as a test bed for the Rafale's RBE-2 AESA radar but that was just a flying testbed, nothing more.
End of M2000 line : 2007. At those time the RBE2 was a PESA one. AESA arrived operationnaly in 2013, and wasn't study at all for M2000.
In case of a french request, or a strong and real interest from Dassault customers an AESA radar may have been produced for M2000, but it was not the case. It has never be a technical issue.

About engine : There was a detailed plan, called M53-PX3, for a lighter and 8 to 10% more powerfull engine. Studies were ready in 2002, for a go live in 2003... As for the radar : French air force not interested (all for Rafale !) and the export support not strong enough.
 

Wisemarko

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Same history for Rafale deal....

As an american, the sole acceptable deal is inked by a US company....
As an honest person, yes. Hard to remember “honest french deal”

Malaysia submarine/ Thales:


Pakistan Submarine deal:

South Africa Thales deal:

Brazil submarine deal:

Taiwan DCNS Frigate scandal:

These are not just accusations but courts have charged and/or sentenced French citizens/ corporations for corruption.

In India, serious allegations have been make against Thales for Scorpene($175 million kickbacks) and Mirage upgrade deals ($10 million).
 

Flying Dagger

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Not true. I don't think you're aware of the details.

The Jaguar was a DPSA for the IAF, a strike jet. It was acquired in the late 1970s and HAL had already started manufacturing them when the IAF bought Mirage-2000s in the mid 1980s to counter the PAF acquisition of the F-16A. The Mirage-2000 was the ONLY other FBW equipped fighter in the world apart from the F-16 (and given that the F-18 wasn't an option) and considered the most modern available to the IAF.

The original plan was to buy 40 Mirages off the shelf and then opt for license manufacture of 100 Mirage-2000s in India at HAL. That was a part of the options clause for the original contract of the Mirage-2000s itself.

But then USSR came and offered the RAM-K (later called the MiG-29) soon after the Mirage-2000s were bought. The MiG-29 had been a super secret program of theirs and had only been offered to Warsaw Pact countries. IAF officers evaluated it, loved it's incredible T/W ratio and performance and suggested to the GoI and MoD to acquire them.

Soon after, there were 2 types of air superiority fighters in the IAF, the Mirage-2000 and the MiG-29. Thanks to the MiG-29 coming into the mix, the options clause for the Mirage-2000 was never converted since there was confusion as to whether to manufacture the costlier Mirage-2000 in India or the cheaper MiG-29. Later on, in the 1990s, India's economy all but collapsed and all talk of the license manufacture dissipated. The serviceability headaches of the MiG-29 meant that the IAF didn't want any more of them beyond the 75 odd that it bought from the USSR.

Later on, the Russians offered the Su-27UB and it was evaluated by the IAF and eventually that led to the Su-30MKI program in the late 1990s to early 2000s.
I have discussed this before and shared articles in chronology how it happened.


Jaguar was Anglo French. Britishers were pushing it.

French offered Mirage 2k a Multirole which can perform both Attack and interception and was soon going to enter production.

Total 300 jets were needed . We divided it in between 150 Jags first and Mirage 2k 150 later. (40+110 )


Mirage was twice as expensive as Mig 29 though and we didn't had much money. Initial lot was purchased with option for producing others in India.

Mig 29 performance made IAF opt for it.

Mirage was always used as strike while Mig 29 were air superiority which we saw in Kargil too.

Sukhoi is a different saga.
 

Flying Dagger

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Cheap, Soviet candy, kneejerk reaction to F16 purchase. 1980's we were defacto soviet satellite still smoking 71 bonhomie joint. French options though good were always pricey. The intrinsic Baniya within us saw Mig 29 no brainer.
Mig 29 were top of the line interceptor and light air superiority fighter jet. It's just that we don't have enough of them.

They proved themselves throughout 90s specially in Kargil war.

There was a deal for upgraded engines and AESA radar, new MFDs for the cockpit.


Nope ... Never made it.



No AESA and engine upgrade was part of the deal.


Article referring to original Mirage vs Jaguar Vs Viggen .

 
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AnantS

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Mig 29 were top of the line interceptor and light air superiority fighter jet. It's just that we don't have enough of them.

They proved themselves throughout 90s specially in Kargil war.
True, but initial batches of Mig 29 were shoddy built. IAF BRD and HAL had to do a lot of work.
 

BON PLAN

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As an honest person, yes. Hard to remember “honest french deal”
One of your honnest President said there were mass destruction weapons in Irak. There was not. And France didn't accept to follow you, unlike GB for exemple....

So keep your lessons for newbies.
 

Wisemarko

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One of your honnest President said there were mass destruction weapons in Irak. There was not. And France didn't accept to follow you, unlike GB for exemple....

So keep your lessons for newbies.
Nice attempt at distraction. We are talking about widespread corruption associated with French weapon export deals, bribery of foreign government officials and subsequent charges (and convictions) of French individuals for their involvement.

Next time come up with better response.
 

BON PLAN

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Nice attempt at distraction. We are talking about widespread corruption associated with French weapon export deals, bribery of foreign government officials and subsequent charges (and convictions) of French individuals for their involvement.

Next time come up with better response.
3 minutes on google :

2022 : Biogen paid 900 USD millions to end a bribery affair.

July 2019 : Microsoft paid 25 USD millions for bribery

2013 : Johnson & Johnson paid 2,2 USD billions to avoid a court for bribery

USA über alles ! Zieg.
 

Wisemarko

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3 minutes on google :

2022 : Biogen paid 900 USD millions to end a bribery affair.

July 2019 : Microsoft paid 25 USD millions for bribery

2013 : Johnson & Johnson paid 2,2 USD billions to avoid a court for bribery

USA über alles ! Zieg.
Distraction doesn’t work on normal people. Why are you running away from defense topics?

Do I talk about Lafarge arming ISIS?
https://www.justice.gov/opa/video/l...erial-support-foreign-terrorist-organizations

Or Alstom paying bribes to Indonesians for boilers?

So next time, give us examples of Indians we’re bribed for any US contract. Or just keep walking..
 

NutCracker

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Mirage-2000: Indonesia Officially Rejects 2nd-Hand Qatari Jets; India Potential Buyer For Greek Jets?

 

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