IAF Mirage 2000

[Wisemarko]

It will not be a great millesime for 737 MAX. Even if some have negotiated a very discount price so as to slightly improve the Boeing back log.

MAX is maxed out on airframe optimizations. It can barely take on A320NEO. Boeing needs a clean sheet design to succeed 737.

 

[BON PLAN]

Airbus planes are more comfortable than boeings of the same class.

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A320 has a little bigger diameter cabin.
737 MAX is based on the original 737, it's now a very old basis design.

It's like the F16 fighter, it was a very good plane, but now it has reach its limits.
And maybe be more in the MAX case....

 

[BON PLAN]

MAX is maxed out on airframe optimizations. It can barely take on A320NEO. Boeing needs a clean sheet design to succeed 737.

You are right !
Airbus made with A320 to the 737 nearly the same commercal coup than Boeing with B777 versus A340.

 

[AmoghaVarsha]

A320 has a little bigger diameter cabin.
737 MAX is based on the original 737, it's now a very old basis design.

It's like the F16 fighter, it was a very good plane, but now it has reach its limits.
And maybe be more in the MAX case....

Not only that the Airbus A350 900 the XWB is much more comfortable than a 777-200Er or 300.

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[Bhurki]

You are right !
Airbus made with A320 to the 737 nearly the same commercal coup than Boeing with B777 versus A340.

Not only that the Airbus A350 900 the XWB is much more comfortable than a 777-200Er or 300.

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Anybody wanna compare 787 vs a380 ? :biggrin2:

 

[DG7867]

Anybody wanna compare 787 vs a380 ? :biggrin2:

Not sure if that's an appropriate comparison.. I think 787 vs. A350 would be more appropriate comparison..

 

[Bhurki]

Not sure if that's an appropriate comparison.. I think 787 vs. A350 would be more appropriate comparison..

I meant in terms of being sold..

 

[Wisemarko]

I meant in terms of being sold..

Introduction of 777 especially 777-300ER destroyed the market case for A340 and indirectly led to demise of all four engined commercial airliners including 747 and A380.

Today, aluminum framed wide-bodies including updated 777-8/9 and A330NEO cannot compete with economics of composite made 787 and A350. For instance, 777 weighs 25 tons more while carrying the same fuel and passengers as 787.

Between A350 and 787 there’s less to compare and more to agree on. Both are cramped, boring but revolutionary aircraft that have connected smaller cities to rest of the world like never before. Made of composites they have lower maintenance and are much lighter. One important difference is bleed air in A350 vs batteries on 787. To me that’s a big issue because bleed air always has contamination from fuel and breathing that toxic air for 16 hours will have some health effect.

 

[BON PLAN]

Introduction of 777 especially 777-300ER destroyed the market case for A340 and indirectly led to demise of all four engined commercial airliners including 747 and A380.

Today, aluminum framed wide-bodies including updated 777-8/9 and A330NEO cannot compete with economics of composite made 787 and A350. For instance, 777 weighs 25 tons more while carrying the same fuel and passengers as 787.

Between A350 and 787 there’s less to compare and more to agree on. Both are cramped, boring but revolutionary aircraft that have connected smaller cities to rest of the world like never before. Made of composites they have lower maintenance and are much lighter. One important difference is bleed air in A350 vs batteries on 787. To me that’s a big issue because bleed air always has contamination from fuel and breathing that toxic air for 16 hours will have some health effect.

Bleed air is taken before the hot core of the engine. In flight there is no risk.

 

[asianobserve]

You are right !
Airbus made with A320 to the 737 nearly the same commercal coup than Boeing with B777 versus A340.

It's what happens when you let the bean counters make strategic decions in companies. They are almost always short sighted. Boeing should have immediately responded in the early 90s after A320 was launched. But Boeing were trying to squeeze .ore money out of a dezign that already earned them tremendous profits. They became a victim of their own succes.

I believe that Boeing's NMA should be on class with A320 and single aisle.

 

[BON PLAN]

I believe that Boeing's NMA should be on class with A320 and single aisle.

probably better, as it will used far more composite.

 

[Armand2REP]

I believe that Boeing's NMA should be on class with A320 and single aisle.

I believe Airbus has already beat them to it with the A321XLR which is dominating sales.

 

[BON PLAN]

I believe Airbus has already beat them to it with the A321XLR which is dominating sales.

A321XLR is made for a part of the market share. It is unreivaled as for now, but the core of the market is adressed by legacy A320/A321 planes, and NMA will be a fierce competitor.
Boeing has made en error woth MAX, it will not happend with NMA, it's sure.

 

[Armand2REP]

A321XLR is made for a part of the market share. It is unreivaled as for now, but the core of the market is adressed by legacy A320/A321 planes, and NMA will be a fierce competitor.
Boeing has made en error woth MAX, it will not happend with NMA, it's sure.

The A321XLR is a new market created by Airbus. It allows budget airlines to open long distance routes that compete with bigger airlines with bigger more expensive planes and to do so more affordably.

 

[asianobserve]

I believe Airbus has already beat them to it with the A321XLR which is dominating sales.

There is still a window for a new Boeing A321XLR replacement since a lot of B757 are going to be retired soon. But Boeing perhaps has to write off the development cost of a new single aisle since Airbus can easily upgrade its A321 with composite wings or even better engines.

 

[asianobserve]

The A321XLR is a new market created by Airbus. It allows budget airlines to open long distance routes that compete with bigger airlines with bigger more expensive planes and to do so more affordably.

A321XLR is not obto a new market. It is serving the B757 market, long distance but thinner passengers where single aisle is more economical.

 

[Armand2REP]

A321XLR is not obto a new market. It is serving the B757 market, long distance but thinner passengers where single aisle is more economical.

Wrong market, it has far more range and efficiency than that museum piece. It is in-between that and a 787 but at far cheaper prices and fuel burn per seat. It is tapping an entirely new segment for budget airlines to expand their offerings.

 

[WolfPack86]

Mirage 2000 fighter jet Indian air force.

 

[Tactical Frog]

Welcome to the time machine

France and India Bargain Over Sale of 150 Mirage Warplanes

By Edward Cody
October 23, 1981
France and India are pushing ahead with major negotiations over the purchase of 150 advanced Mirage-2000 warplanes for the Indian Air Force, a $2 billion deal that would give India a major source of aircraft other than the Soviet Union and give France's Mirage production lines a new lease on life.
The deal, which Indian officials here say is still being negotiated, would include arrangements for eventual Indian assembly or manufacture of the Mirage-2000, a delta-winged, all-purpose craft designed to become a mainstay of the French Air Force.
The negotiations, which continued here today, underscore the difficulties faced by major world leaders who seek to reconcile broadly stated goals of economic development with the hard realities of military competition and the high profits of arms sales. This is particularly true of President Francois Mitterrand of France, who loudly denounced arms sales to the Third World under his predecessor, and Prime Minister Indira Gandhi of India, who has strongly criticized neighboring Pakistan's plans to buy U.S.-made F16s while at the same time engaging in a multibillion dollar buildup of India's armed forces.
Both Mitterrand and Gandhi are participants in the summit meeting of 22 world leaders currently underway in Cancun, Mexico that is dealing with issues of economic growth for developing countries.
Mitterrand's dilemma is that, while he has called for "revision" of French arms sales policies, the industry signed more than $6 billion in contracts last year with foreign governments. As the world's third-largest arms exporter after the United States and the Soviet Union, France has 75,000 workers employed in the arms industry and another 275,000 jobs depend on it indirectly.
As unemployment heads toward the 2 million mark, the socialist government can ill afford to turn down possibly lucrative contracts that will keep defense workers on the payroll. This is particularly pressing now since Venezuela and Australia, both equipped with earlier Mirage models, recently announced their intention to buy U.S. planes, Venezuela F16s and Australia F18s.
Referring to this clash between ideas and economics during his election campaign last spring, Mitterrrand said: "Tens of thousands of homes and entire regions live from this activity alone. One can regret it. But this is a given fact that limits what we can do and that I must take into account."
Foreign military attaches here say another factor is that, with India the only lively prospect at the moment, the French defense establishment is increasingly eager to strike a deal allowing the Mirage-2000 to be produced in large enough numbers that the French Air Force will be able to buy the craft at a reasonable price.
"They're really getting desperate," said a Third World attache.
The plane's manufacturer, Dassault-Breguet, has been told the French Air Force plans to buy about 300 Mirage-2000s, which are scheduled to begin service in 1983. But the firm, which is about to be nationalized, must sell several hundred more to recover its research and development costs and still charge an acceptable price, the attaches said.
Against this background, the Indian government team here, headed by Defense Secretary P. K. Kaul, has been bargaining hard, despite a reported decision by the Indian defense establishment that the Mirage-2000 fits Indian needs best. Aside from financing -- a major problem-- the talks center on delivery schedules and the possibility of India's building the plane itself, according to Indian and French reports.
In what perhaps reflects an Indian negotiating tactic, press reports from New Delhi have emphasized that the Soviet Union is offering swift delivery of the Mig25 at prices well below those of the Mirage-2000. India is believed already to possess a reconnaissance version of the Mig25, called the Foxbat in Western military terminology.
At the same time, the Indian government is reported reluctant to become lopsidedly dependent on Soviet arms supplies, particularly on top of a recent agreement to buy and manufacture Mig23s to replace its aging fleet of Mig21s.
If the Mirage purchase goes through, however, India is likely to back out of the final part of a three-phase, $1.8 billion deal with British Aerospace, in which New Delhi was to buy 40 Jaguar fighters, assemble 45 more at Bangalore and then manufacture an additional quantity.
Gandhi's government is considering the Mirage-2000 instead, according to reports from New Delhi, because it feels the French plane is more advanced and thus a superior response to the 40 F16s that Washington has agreed to supply to Pakistan over the next 2 1/2 years.
The delivery schedule is particularly important to India, officials said, because Pakistan is to receive its first F16s within the year and Dassault-Breguet has put forward 1984 as its earliest delivery date.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/politics/1981/10/23/france-and-india-bargain-over-sale-of-150-mirage-warplanes/fe1d39a8-dc81-4363-867d-736943e36370/

 

[Rohan Naik]

Mirage 2000 fighter jet Indian air force.

year, IAF should get second hand Mirage from friendly countries. I don't know why, but, I think they are a better platform than mig 29 for combat mission. Also, we can integrate European and Israeli weapons easily.