IAF MiG-21 shoots down Pakistani F-16

[Armand2REP]

Russia claimed that their Air defence missiles shot down storm shadows.

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I thought Russia said they didn't shoot at anything. The targets to the West of Homs were completely destroyed so it doesn't appear that any of them were shot down.

 

[AmoghaVarsha]

I thought Russia said they didn't shoot at anything. The targets to the West of Homs were completely destroyed so it doesn't appear that any of them were shot down.

https://www.janes.com/article/79615/russia-displays-cruise-missiles-shot-down-in-syria

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[Armand2REP]

https://www.janes.com/article/79615/russia-displays-cruise-missiles-shot-down-in-syria

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Who knows what type of missile it is, it detonated so it wasn't shot down.

 

[Craigs]

I thought Russia said they didn't shoot at anything. The targets to the West of Homs were completely destroyed so it doesn't appear that any of them were shot down.

Calling sand dunes and empty buildings as targets is a bit rich don't you think? In all of those attacks other Nato assets were also involved + Nato had complete air superiority over Syria after Russia agreed not to target each other. I think you would find more actual resistance in your DACT training.

 

[Craigs]

Scalp EG is advertised as a stealth cruise missile, it is why the British call it Storm Shadow.

Is it subsonic. Check.
Does it have hot exhaust. Check.
It is not stealth. No matter what the brochures say. It can be stealthy when attacking rag tag Arab militias and bombed out countries.

 

[Kazah]

Very informative....
__________________________________

 

[Armand2REP]

Calling sand dunes and empty buildings as targets is a bit rich don't you think? In all of those attacks other Nato assets were also involved + Nato had complete air superiority over Syria after Russia agreed not to target each other. I think you would find more actual resistance in your DACT training.

I don't know what France has to do to prove itself to you. Bombing the crap out of Iraq and destroying the 45th mech division wasn't enough, two air campaigns over the former Yugoslavia and Serbia wasn't enough, Securing its sector in Afghanistan wasn't enough. Forcing regime change in Ivory Coast wasn't enough. Destroying thousands of targets and ridding Libya of Kadhafi wasn't enough. Liberating Mali wasn't enough. Bombing thousands of Daesh wasn't enough. We faced down Russian threats to attack us if we bombed Assad and we still did it any way. What is enough?

 

[Craigs]

I don't know what France has to do to prove itself to you. Bombing the crap out of Iraq and destroying the 45th mech division wasn't enough, two air campaigns over the former Yugoslavia and Serbia wasn't enough, Securing its sector in Afghanistan wasn't enough. Forcing regime change in Ivory Coast wasn't enough. Destroying thousands of targets and ridding Libya of Kadhafi wasn't enough. Liberating Mali wasn't enough. Bombing thousands of Daesh wasn't enough. We faced down Russian threats to attack us if we bombed Assad and we still did it any way. What is enough?

Take on some one your own approximate size and capability alone. Most of those you mention were when France was part of NATO/GWT alliance and usually against woefully under-equipped opponents. Not saying you can't do it but stop comparing your situation with ours.

 

[Armand2REP]

Take on some one your own approximate size and capability alone. Most of those you mention were when France was part of NATO/GWT alliance and usually against woefully under-equipped opponents. Not saying you can't do it but stop comparing your situation with ours.

Who are we supposed to compare ourselves to? The US? When it comes to coalition operations it is always France that provides the second most air power. When we compare ourselves to the other members of the UNSC including UK, China and Russia we dwarf all of them in the use of air power.

I don't see you criticizing Russian air power when they get a bloody nose from a far less capable Georgian air defence. Their attrition rate in Syria has been abysmal. When was the last time China used air power? I don't remember as it was before I was born and I am almost 40 years old.

You act like we don't fly in contested airspace. Serbia, Iraq, Libya and Syria all had IADS that put our pilots at risk. We have the ability to project air power all over the globe and we use it. I am sorry we are not the US with unlimited resources, we have a set budget like India and we use it to great effect.

 

[Anil47]

As far as things being discussed here it only points towards , permission to fire missile. IAF was slow in getting permission or they were up there thinking they will not have to use their ammo.

 

[ezsasa]

Who are we supposed to compare ourselves to? The US? When it comes to coalition operations it is always France that provides the second most air power. When we compare ourselves to the other members of the UNSC including UK, China and Russia we dwarf all of them in the use of air power.

I don't see you criticizing Russian air power when they get a bloody nose from a far less capable Georgian air defence. Their attrition rate in Syria has been abysmal. When was the last time China used air power? I don't remember as it was before I was born and I am almost 40 years old.

You act like we don't fly in contested airspace. Serbia, Iraq, Libya and Syria all had IADS that put our pilots at risk. We have the ability to project air power all over the globe and we use it. I am sorry we are not the US with unlimited resources, we have a set budget like India and we use it to great effect.

isn't also the case that other than france, other major european airforces are in bad shape. i am under the impression that british and germany AFs are going thru a bad phase.

 

[Armand2REP]

isn't also the case that other than france, other major european airforces are in bad shape. i am under the impression that british and germany AFs are going thru a bad phase.

Those two air forces have one thing in common... Eurofighter. Serviceability of the aircraft is extremely expensive and the industrial chain to provide spares is broken.

 

[ezsasa]

Those two air forces have one thing in common... Eurofighter. Serviceability of the aircraft is extremely expensive and the industrial chain to provide spares is broken.

who else in europe has the capability to do overseas air operations?

 

[scatterStorm]

They had no problem detecting the Tornadoes and F-16s, Rafale and M2Ks went undetected. S-400 is supposed to have over 400km range.

Russia claimed that their Air defence missiles shot down storm shadows.

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True dat ..................... There are videos of Pantsir S1 destroying cruise missiles.

 

[Armand2REP]

True dat ..................... There are videos of Pantsir S1 destroying cruise missiles.

Videos like this?


Or this?


It can't even detect missiles aimed at destroying itself much less Scalp EG miles away.

 

[Immanuel]

It was the longest combat mission ever conducted by fighter aircraft. It took the title from Israel's Operation Wooden Leg.

The Russian ambassador had already threatened to respond to any attack against Syria. Russia couldn't respond because their S-400 could not detect our aircraft or stealth missiles.

I doubt that, either way it's irrelevant. USAF has been flying such long ass missions for donkey's years.
Russian Ambassador doesn't control jack, as said, this whole game was a nice exercise of expensing ammo.
Also there are plenty of videos to prove they shot down plenty of cruise missiles (clear hits). To say none of the missiles were shot down is pure fake news. Also, S-400's various nodes would have picked up the Rafale both in active and passive mode. Also, the S-400 is essentially a couple of fire units in Syria and not an entire battalion or a regiment for that matter.

The Allies claim none were hit Russian claimed 70 were hit, my opinion is that the truth is usually somewhere in between. Some empty buildings get bombed out, some nearly outdated or those reaching end of shelf life weapons stocks were used up. Nothing changes in the status quo except perhaps there will be less chance of chemical weapons being used.

The useless strike achieved nothing militarily, but gave Trump points for acting on a 'redline', it was only useful for Trump and a warning note to Chinese, he got to brag that he launched 60 odd cruise missiles over chocolate cake with little Chi Ping Ping

 

[Armand2REP]

I doubt that, either way it's irrelevant. USAF has been flying such long ass missions for donkey's years.
Russian Ambassador doesn't control jack, as said, this whole game was a nice exercise of expensing ammo.
Also there are plenty of videos to prove they shot down plenty of cruise missiles (clear hits). To say none of the missiles were shot down is pure fake news. Also, S-400's various nodes would have picked up the Rafale both in active and passive mode. Also, the S-400 is essentially a couple of fire units in Syria and not an entire battalion or a regiment for that matter.

US fighters don't have to fly such long ass combat missions because they have bases everywhere. They have strategic bombers for that. When our carrier is down for refit we have to use the strategic capabilities of the Rafale and its immense payload and fuel efficiency that is unmatched in the world.

There are no videos of clear hits, it was the middle of the night. Just because you see a blast fragmentation warhead explode doesn't mean it hit anything.

You don't believe the Russian MoD when they say they didn't detect the French aircraft but you fully believe the propaganda that they destroyed missiles targeting an airbase that was never a target. You don't get to pick and choose bhai.

 

[Immanuel]

US fighters don't have to fly such long ass combat missions because they have bases everywhere. They have strategic bombers for that. When our carrier is down for refit we have to use the strategic capabilities of the Rafale and its immense payload and fuel efficiency that is unmatched in the world.

There are no videos of clear hits, it was the middle of the night. Just because you see a blast fragmentation warhead explode doesn't mean it hit anything.

You don't believe the Russian MoD when they say they didn't detect the French aircraft but you fully believe the propaganda that they destroyed missiles targeting an airbase that was never a target. You don't get to pick and choose bhai.

Again, only yada yada, stop posting irrelevant BS about fights and ranges, it is nothing extraordinary, MKIs have already undertaken 8000km flights. They never said they didn't detect French aircraft besides both sides are full of propaganda.

 

[Armand2REP]

Again, only yada yada, stop posting irrelevant BS about fights and ranges, it is nothing extraordinary, MKIs have already undertaken 8000km flights. They never said they didn't detect French aircraft besides both sides are full of propaganda.

When has MKI ever undertaken an 8000km combat mission? Their baptism of fire was only last month.

 

[Immanuel]

When has MKI ever undertaken an 8000km combat mission? Their baptism of fire was only last month.

There is little difference between a long range fight vs a combat mission. The MKI has a range of 8000km with two air top ups. 10hr long missions aren't an issue for them and have been demonstrated plenty of times.