IAF MiG-21 shoots down Pakistani F-16

[ashdoc]

Don’t trouble NDTV on rational scientific questions, their boss Prannoy Roy just said centrifugal force attracts votes to the centre..

Yeah the news ought to be false .

 

[hit&run]

How many time it has to be told that ingressing party is always at the advantage than the one that intercepts.

Also, they have a numerical advantage. They fire first. Soon they fired first we became the victims; defenders. This is a typical air war lexicon.

Porkis ran away before available Air to Air missiles could lock on.

It was Abinandhan with his supersonic Mig-21 who responded and engaged first, out chased them and locked on WVR missile and killed F-16.

The situational awareness about the ground attack would have been not that clear, except BVRs homing at us.

The kind of package CAP carries is another detail that must be considered also the peacetime rules of engagement were abided by therefore they were not chased.

Remember the strikes before that in Balakot were declared pre-emptive non-military strikes.

 

[hit&run]

RANDI TV is known to recycle lies which were debunked. These scums don't take their humiliation on their chins but come back cowardly like Pakistanis to attack again when people are not ready.

 

[itsme]

Then why is the r77 missile being replaced by Israeli missiles ? The only way you could be correct is the news of replacement being false .

Upgrading for better range BVR so we have the complete overwhelming advantage against the enemy and not just advantage by a small margin or balanced. In case of this encounter if Sukhois had a longer range BVR then they could have stayed outside the max range of the enemy BVR and engaged if required by not being engaged themselves.

Also, not sure if Israeli missiles can be configured on the Sukhoi.

 

[ashdoc]

How many time it has to be told that ingressing party is always at the advantage than the one that intercepts.

Also, they have a numerical advantage. They fire first. Soon they fired first we became the victims; defenders. This is a typical air war lexicon.

Porkis ran away before available Air to Air missiles could lock on.

It was Abinandhan with his supersonic Mig-21 who responded and engaged first, out chased them and locked on WVR missile and killed F-16.

The situational awareness about the ground attack would have been not that clear, except BVRs homing at us.

The kind of package CAP carries is another detail that must be considered also the peacetime rules of engagement were abided by therefore they were not chased.

Remember the strikes before that in Balakot were declared pre-emptive non-military strikes.

This will convince me only if news of entire 272 sukhois r 77 missiles being replaced by Israeli missiles is false . Because replacing missiles of 272 sukhois is a mammoth task .

 

[hit&run]

exactly after the Pulwama aftermath ? No , something is not right .

India procures weapons in millions every year. The weapon package of long-range BVR's that comes with Rafale would have been already operational but we all know NDTV's political masters delayed it.

This particular procurement could well be a gap filler before Rafale is inducted and all its envelops are opened, which will take a quite long time.

 

[IndianHawk]

This will convince me only if news of entire 272 sukhois r 77 missiles being replaced by Israeli missiles is false . Because replacing missiles of 272 sukhois is a mammoth task .

R77 is old missile now with range 80+km . Pak has amraam d version with range 100km. Which are much recent in development.

So in a limited battle where iaf has to face these 17 block 52 iaf is at range disadvantages.

In a wider battle Pakistan can't put up with numbers and looses advantage of few fighter with better missiles.

Even Russia has later versions of r77 than IAF.
So missile upgrade for su30 is long due .

Sent from my C103 using Tapatalk

 

[ashdoc]

India procures weapons in millions every year. The weapon package of long-range BVR's that comes with Rafale would have been already operational but we all know NDTV's political masters delayed it.

This particular procurement could well be a gap filler before Rafale is inducted and all its envelops are opened, which will take a quite long time.

Replacement of missiles of 272 sukhois is too big . Bigger than procuring missiles for 36 Rafales .

I hope the news is false .

 

[hit&run]

This will convince me only if news of entire 272 sukhois r 77 missiles being replaced by Israeli missiles is false . Because replacing missiles of 272 sukhois is a mammoth task .

Yes, this is another reason to reject what NDTV is implying and trying to connect it with air skirmish with Pakistan.

Vishnu Som has been denied all the access he had with defence establishment. He sounds quite logical on twitter but soon he is asked to write for his employer NDTV he goes on with click baits headlines.

 

[ashdoc]

R77 is old missile now with range 80+km . Pak has amraam d version with range 100km. Which are much recent in development.

So in a limited battle where iaf has to face these 17 block 52 iaf is at range disadvantages.

In a wider battle Pakistan can't put up with numbers and looses advantage of few fighter with better missiles.

Even Russia has later versions of r77 than IAF.
So missile upgrade for su30 is long due .

Sent from my C103 using Tapatalk

So the congressi folks did nothing for defence while pakis got latest AMRAAMs .

 

[porky_kicker]

How many time it has to be told that ingressing party is always at the advantage than the one that intercepts.

Also, they have a numerical advantage. They fire first. Soon they fired first we became the victims; defenders. This is a typical air war lexicon.

Porkis ran away before available Air to Air missiles could lock on.

It was Abinandhan with his supersonic Mig-21 who responded and engaged first, out chased them and locked on WVR missile and killed F-16.

The situational awareness about the ground attack would have been not that clear, except BVRs homing at us.

The kind of package CAP carries is another detail that must be considered also the peacetime rules of engagement were abided by therefore they were not chased.

Remember the strikes before that in Balakot were declared pre-emptive non-military strikes.

SU30MKI did not fire their BVRAAMs not because of lack of range but because they did not want to switch on the radar channels associated with guiding the BVRAAMs ( untill onboard seeker goes active in LOAL mode and LOBL mode was out of question ) as the SU30MKIs were not in a position to get a actionable firing solution in the first place throughout the combat due to restrictive RoE and the need to dodge the AMRAAMs in the first place.

Porkies had their Erieye AEW in the background waiting to sniff out the active guidence frequency channels of bars radar. While the F16 baited the SU30s by firing AMRAAMs in the " mad dog " mode ie firing in general direction without any target lock .

People who understand EW will appreciate the what IAF achieved on that day , incase anybody still has doubts then feel free to google " how threat library for EW are generated for jammers " .

IAF SU30MKI may have lost in terms of useless propaganda , but the pilots managed to keep their cool to keep the porkies away from getting the frequencies and make sure next time they meet surprise will be on our side to ass whoop them.

 

[IndianHawk]

So the congressi folks did nothing for defence while pakis got latest AMRAAMs .

Exactly. Probably this is why Modi immediately ordered 36 flyaway rafale to negate paki advantage.

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[porky_kicker]

R77 is old missile now with range 80+km . Pak has amraam d version with range 100km. Which are much recent in development.

So in a limited battle where iaf has to face these 17 block 52 iaf is at range disadvantages.

In a wider battle Pakistan can't put up with numbers and looses advantage of few fighter with better missiles.

Even Russia has later versions of r77 than IAF.
So missile upgrade for su30 is long due .

Sent from my C103 using Tapatalk

Seriously ?

BVRAAMs are near useless at their maximum ranges.

What matters is not range but the optimal firing solution which will get the hostile aircraft within the NEZ ( no escape zone ) of the BVRAAM where even kinematic maneuvering by the hostile will not be sufficient enough to escape the merge.

Aircrafts are shot down by missiles when they lose the kinematic endgame via a vis the missiles. Inshort inability to outrun or outmaneuver the missile.

Ever wondered why WVRAAM missiles are better at kills than BVRAAM missiles. Because of this very reason. Shorter time to target , higher maneuverability , tighter NEZ , greater ability to sustain energy bleed etc

Well no point banging ones head I guess. Good night

 

[hit&run]

SU30MKI did not fire their BVRAAMs not because of lack of range but because they did not want to switch on the radar channels associated with guiding the BVRAAMs ( untill onboard seeker goes active in LOAL mode and LOBL mode was out of question ) as the SU30MKIs were not in a position to get a actionable firing solution in the first place throughout the combat due to restrictive RoE and the need to dodge the AMRAAMs in the first place.

Porkies had their Erieye AEW in the background waiting to sniff out the active guidence frequency channels of bars radar. While the F16 baited the SU30s by firing AMRAAMs in the " mad dog " mode ie firing in general direction without any target lock .

People who understand EW will appreciate the patience of IAF , incase anybody still has doubts then feel free to google " how threat library for EW are generated " .

IAF SU30MKI may have lost in terms of useless propaganda, but the pilots managed to keep their cool to keep the porkies away from getting the frequencies and make sure next time they meet surprise will still be on our

Pakistanis disengaged and ran away before we could have worked out firing solution after dodging their BVRs.

Mig-21 intercepted first and engaged. Porkis disengaged but Abinandan locked on one F-16. There is enough evidence available how desperate F-16 tried to get roaring Mig-21off his ass.

There was only one on one air battle and that was between Mig-21 and F-16. Rest of the PAF flock ran away after firing BVR's and dropping their duds.

 

[hit&run]

So the congressi folks did nothing for defence while pakis got latest AMRAAMs .

It was Obama who gave 500 AMRAAMs to Pakistan. The same forked tongue Obama Indian librandus like KC Singh and Pagalika adore.

 

[Defcon 1]

I see a lot of panicked people here due to the NDTV article when there is no cause for worry. Let me explain:

IAF is now looking to have AAMs in three categories:
1. WVRAAM: IR guided missiles for short range engagements. ASRAAM has been selected as the standard missile for this category across fleet.

2. BVRAAM: RF guided missiles for BVR engagements. Current inventory consists of Derby, R77 and MICA. In future, Astra will replace all Derby and R77s, while MICA will continue with French aircraft

3. Long range AAM: small number of very long range missiles for 27th feb type BVR vollies and to take out high value targets such as AWACS. India will be getting METEOR missile in this category for Rafale. However for other aircraft, we will have to develop the indigenous SFDR. Since an SFDR based AAM is still a decade away, India is looking at I-Derby to be the stopgap.

This is all there is to the news. It is a welcome news since India has been hunting for such missiles for about two decades now. ( Remember the k172s novator?). NDTV is simply dishonestly linking this procurement to 27th feb events for sensationality.

 

[Absolut_Vodka]

We also misjudged paki intentions on 27 Feb. Usually an aircraft that fires BVRs at maximum range is much above the altitude of aircraft it's trying to shoot ,that is just like taking long range sniper shots aim bit higher than subject so that missile/bullet is at right height while dropping under effect of gravity.

It's just like an attack formation is much different than regular cap missions.

Pakis are also concerned about shooting blanks on 27 Feb and no cheeni maal can outdo their current AMRAAMs.

Article seems to suggest that Israel is responsible for making Derby compatible with su 30 mki. Let's see if that works out and we can get two squadrons with Israeli BVRAAMs.

 

[IndianHawk]

Seriously ?

BVRAAMs are near useless at their maximum ranges.

What matters is not range but the optimal firing solution which will get the hostile aircraft within the NEZ ( no escape zone ) of the BVRAAM where even kinematic maneuvering by the hostile will not be sufficient enough to escape the merge.

Aircrafts are shot down by missiles when they lose the kinematic endgame via a vis the missiles. Inshort inability to outrun or outmaneuver the missile.

Ever wondered why WVRAAM missiles are better at kills than BVRAAM missiles. Because of this very reason. Shorter time to target , higher maneuverability , tighter NEZ , greater ability to sustain energy bleed etc

Well no point banging ones head I guess. Good night

Yea they useless at max range that is why su30 jammed them down. That doesn't negate the fact that r77 is 90s era missile while Pak has 2010s version of amraam.

Firing amraam at 100km distance reflects both paki cowardice and ineptitude . A professional airforce won't do such a thing .

But what do you think will happen when both f16( block 52 with amraam) and su30 were at 70-80 km distance. In that situation while amraam would be well within its max range while r77 would be at max range and ineffective.

Paki will have an advantage. We can not allow that. That is why we are paying through nose for rafale and meteor so that we can negate the advantages these 17 paki f16 block 52 have .

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[Indrajit]

I hope that Modi does better on the procurement stuff than his first term which wasn’t too different from the previous 10 years. You can argue that Modi and Doval should have foreseen that an Pulwama type event was likely at some stage and should have been better prepared. Yet pretty much the armed forces were dealing with vintage stuff even at the fag end of the term

Prosecuting a war on the cheap usually turns very costly. The sad whining of “ if we only had the Rafale....” was as disheartening as it gets.

I also don’t think the matters of Feb should end this way, there is a small issue of retribution remaining ....

 

[IndianHawk]

I see a lot of panicked people here due to the NDTV article when there is no cause for worry. Let me explain:

IAF is now looking to have AAMs in three categories:
1. WVRAAM: IR guided missiles for short range engagements. ASRAAM has been selected as the standard missile for this category across fleet.

2. BVRAAM: RF guided missiles for BVR engagements. Current inventory consists of Derby, R77 and MICA. In future, Astra will replace all Derby and R77s, while MICA will continue with French aircraft

3. Long range AAM: small number of very long range missiles for 27th feb type BVR vollies and to take out high value targets such as AWACS. India will be getting METEOR missile in this category for Rafale. However for other aircraft, we will have to develop the indigenous SFDR. Since an SFDR based AAM is still a decade away, India is looking at I-Derby to be the stopgap.

This is all there is to the news. It is a welcome news since India has been hunting for such missiles for about two decades now. ( Remember the k172s novator?). NDTV is simply dishonestly linking this procurement to 27th feb events for sensationality.

The panic is pointless. Su30 has been constantly upgraded . We are adding Astra to it already . We added jammer pods previously which worked like charm and rendered paki missile useless. Adding new munition is regular program.

Even Russia added new version of r77 ae with 100km+ ranges. With su30 upgrade package in negotiations surely new weapons will be inducted.

Same for all other birds. We recently ordered mica for mirage to replace magic. Lca Tejas moved on from r60 to r73 to now python and asraam and derby. And that all even before induction.

IAF warned govt when USA gave paki 500 amraam but UPA slept profusely delaying mmrca.
Anyway that will be history due September.
Rafale will be here and with 150km+ range ( no escape zone 60-90km) paki f16 will have to remain 150km away next time to even misfire there amraam.

With S400 operational paki will have to fly paf in Iran to remain alive.

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