You are selectively picking points and putting words into my mouth. I never said anything about being proud that the US is on our side. The question is why is the same proof good enough for US, UK, France and Germany, but not for Pakistan?
Pulwama was done by a terrorist organisation headed in Pakistan. JeM took credit for the attack. JeM cheif is in Pakistan. Pakistan protects the JeM chief, by claiming he isn't a terrorist. Now tell me who is the real agressor here? Pakistan is waging a proxy war.
Arsalan, you won't understand. Your teaching from childhood involves hating "idolators", "kafirs" etc. You are taught to hate others you won't even know that what your book teaches is cruelty and hatred.
You were created to be enemy of India and sole possible way to make your country survive is to keep yourself enemy. The day there is peace, partition of India will reverse.
No, we want it. Lot of Indians want it. A decisive war with significant casualties at once only will prevent daily casualties in terror attacks.
By start to undoing British partition. Pakistan needs to surrender it's military and handover its security to India becoming a semi protectorate of India.
Your country doesn't agree with you. They are again and again trying to involve other countries despite our objections.
We had been sitting there till 2014. Nothing happened, only more blood to India civies.
Coz laton ke bhoot baton se nahi mante. You slowly start to legtimize those people and they cause trouble.
You control the groups who cause those "big" things.
It's you guys who used to proudly take credit even before we accuse you.
Their bodies or them being caught in India is more than enough of proof.
What? He's a hero in Pakistan. Your establishment was defending him. In fact, all terrorists are.
Don't worry, slowly this will add up too.
Do what Indian government wants. End terrorism, simple is that.
India's policy is actually sane now. Any normal country with self respect would do this what's India's doing right now.
This isn't much in anyway.
And then rewind the clock back even before Siachen and find that you backstabbed us on table everytime.
You have no say in Kashmir. Pakistan invaded Kashmir to annex it, India integrated Kashmir in it.
UN resolution 48 doesn't recognize Pakistani controlled part as legal FYI.
It's failure of your courts who don't even take their own boasting videos and murders of witnesses as enough proof.
You mean to move on from attrition war to full scale war?
Besides MiGs, I don't think that we have anything vintage in our inventory. These are oldest fighters of IAF.
India accounts for 65% area, 75% population and 80% economy of the region.
Only you are failing. We have been growing very fast catching up with them for last 30 years. In upcoming decades, India will be in a position to even match US, Russia & China.
If you really forget them, their funding will die and they will collapse.
Your feelings exist for Muslims, not Kashmir. You guys don't ever talk about Kashmiri Hindus. Real people of that region.
Then you wouldn't even have created those groups. Right now you are pulling yourself out of Kashmir quagmire because you can't fight against India.
In short, Islam is the problem and hurts peace everywhere in the world.
The "state" soldiers opposing them are also Kashmiris FYI.
Not really, there are certain areas from where infiltration happens. Its impossible to completely control such a long border. However, India is boosting surveillance lately.
oh really, then why it didn't exist before 80s. Why Kashmir with India was so peaceful for 3 decades of freedom?
No worries.
Americans were openly hostile to us for 50 years. It's only our growing strength that made then soft their stance and our conflicts China to review them their policy.
Americans don't give a damn about Afghanistan issue. They feel like staying there is too costly and doesn't serve them anymore. So they are leaving.
Feel important, you don't have any value before them. You even matter only till they are in Afghanistan. The day theh withdraw, you'll lose favours. The day India snatches PoK from you, cutting you off from China, they won't even keep any relations with you.
They joined hands with India to have one more friend in east like Japan and not having one more enemy in the east like China.
Whom are you telling that? Tell that to Americans. :biggrin2:
India maintains that it hit a terror camp and not Pakistani civilian and military entities.
They are doing it now as surveillance has been intensified recently.
i thought u r sane pakistani,
Firstly BSF/IA cannot patrol 'every inch' of border/LOC. There geography/topology of the region leaves adequate gaps for jihadis to sneak into India! The fence helps to reduce the infiltration..........it has reduced the infiltration by about 90%....instead of 1000s (in the 1990s) only 100s sneak in!!
are bhai itna bara reply.isko purhne me time lagega lol.Hope you actually reply & not just ignore me because you can't argue.
You were created to be enemy of India and sole possible way to make your country survive is to keep yourself enemy. The day there is peace, partition of India will reverse.
No, we want it. Lot of Indians want it. A decisive war with significant casualties at once only will prevent daily casualties in terror attacks.
Nothing bad in it.
By start to undoing British partition. Pakistan needs to surrender it's military and handover its security to India becoming a semi protectorate of India.
In long term, Indian education system will help to reverse brainwashing and reintegration with Indian Union.
Your country doesn't agree with you. They are again and again trying to involve other countries despite our objections.
We had been sitting there till 2014. Nothing happened, only more blood to India civies.
Now, we came across border and things start to fall in line. It works!
Coz laton ke bhoot baton se nahi mante. You slowly start to legtimize those people and they cause trouble.
Kashmir dispute isn't about Jammu & Kashmir with India. Kashmir dispute is only about Aksai Chin, Gilgit & Baltistan and so called AJK. Rest of territory is undisputed.
You control the groups who cause those "big" things.
It's you guys who used to proudly take credit even before we accuse you.
Now, your country is screwed in all fronts and you have to be silent. Only that is the difference.
Their bodies or them being caught in India is more than enough of proof.
Since you guys never take action against those "stupid" people you claim not to be your representatives, it raises further suspicions. You guys are called terrorists' safe heaven for a very good reason.
What? He's a hero in Pakistan. Your establishment was defending him. In fact, all terrorists are.
You put the posters of Osama written with "alive" after his encounter.
Don't worry, slowly this will add up too.
As India rises to a powerful position on globe, our point of view will become the point of view of globe eventually.
Do what Indian government wants. End terrorism, simple is that.
India's policy is actually sane now. Any normal country with self respect would do this what's India's doing right now.
Problem was our pseudo secular Muslim apologizer left wing government who was giving so many exemptions to enemies inside and outside our home.
Right Wing will teach them to fall in line and remind them their real aukaat!
This isn't much in anyway.
Pakistan needs to be weakened and brought to knees for international security. Existence of Pakistan is the root of problems of even people living in it.
It needs to get colonized to be reintegrated with India in future or disintegrated into smaller states. Only then we will have peace.
And then rewind the clock back even before Siachen and find that you backstabbed us on table everytime.
And then we realize that what we are doing isn't wrong.
You have no say in Kashmir. Pakistan invaded Kashmir to annex it, India integrated Kashmir in it.
UN resolution 48 doesn't recognize Pakistani controlled part as legal FYI.
Your say doesn't matter either. You are a country carved out of India on religious lines. Term "Pakistanization" refers to division of society itself.
Islam is an Arabic religion and has no right on Kashmir.
It's failure of your courts who don't even take their own boasting videos and murders of witnesses as enough proof.
They are our criminals. Send them to our courts.
You mean to move on from attrition war to full scale war?
Because talks haven't given anything.
Besides MiGs, I don't think that we have anything vintage in our inventory. These are oldest fighters of IAF.
Pakistan on other hand, has its entire fleet obsolete as per IAF standards except 70 odd F-16s.
India accounts for 65% area, 75% population and 80% economy of the region.
Case closed.
- Damage to any other country doesn't country make difference to region.
- Harm to India what Pakistan can do can't make that difference.
- Damageed Pakistan doesn't make any difference to region.
- Damage India receives doesn't make much difference to it. Hence, not even region.
Only you are failing. We have been growing very fast catching up with them for last 30 years. In upcoming decades, India will be in a position to even match US, Russia & China.
Gap between India & Pakistan is growing.
If you really forget them, their funding will die and they will collapse.
However, till the time they exist.
You created the problem. So, you are responsible for what they do.
Your feelings exist for Muslims, not Kashmir. You guys don't ever talk about Kashmiri Hindus. Real people of that region.
Then you wouldn't even have created those groups. Right now you are pulling yourself out of Kashmir quagmire because you can't fight against India.
With every single day passing on, gap between India & Pakistan is rising to a level pushing you to backfoot.
In short, Islam is the problem and hurts peace everywhere in the world.
The "state" soldiers opposing them are also Kashmiris FYI.
Not really, there are certain areas from where infiltration happens. Its impossible to completely control such a long border. However, India is boosting surveillance lately.
- Because they are Muslims.
- They are sponsored by Pakistani ISI.
oh really, then why it didn't exist before 80s. Why Kashmir with India was so peaceful for 3 decades of freedom?
Why no separatism was here before "bleeding India to thousand cuts" doctrine.
No worries.
We have come to know it and we are doing this. By weakening Pakistan down to knees, the mother of problems in the region.
Americans were openly hostile to us for 50 years. It's only our growing strength that made then soft their stance and our conflicts China to review them their policy.
They still are not comfortable with us. We still have differences where we quarrel. Follow this thread out of your echo chamber.
Americans don't give a damn about Afghanistan issue. They feel like staying there is too costly and doesn't serve them anymore. So they are leaving.
Their mission was to push back Soviet influence and thanks to Pakistan, who caused millions if deaths with its Taliban and totally destabilized that country that no country is ready to invest in Afghanistan.
After US leaves, Pakistan will open its terror factories in Afghanistan like it keeps in itself to use them against India.
That also explains why India is getting so assertive, aggressive & bold now.
Feel important, you don't have any value before them. You even matter only till they are in Afghanistan. The day theh withdraw, you'll lose favours. The day India snatches PoK from you, cutting you off from China, they won't even keep any relations with you.
They joined hands with India to have one more friend in east like Japan and not having one more enemy in the east like China.
Seriously, they don't need to join hands with us to do anything against you. They can declare you terrorists state, force others not to keep relations with you like Iran. Or they could simply hit you like Iraq & Syria citing terrorism or persecution of weak communities.
Whom are you telling that? Tell that to Americans. :biggrin2:
We are baniyas and we are bigger opportunists than them.
India maintains that it hit a terror camp and not Pakistani civilian and military entities.
If you cite sovereignity for protest, you are also directly saying that you control them.
I mean stay on one side of argument. When you said India doesn't control them, India hit them themselves. But you came crying sovereignity then.
They are doing it now as surveillance has been intensified recently.
The explosive was accumulated gradually in Kashmir.
The only point I'm ready to accept that local Muslims were also involved.
i have read your very very long range bvr post( hahahaha).basically you are saying that pakistan created every problem even kashmir and you are asking pakistan to surrender to india just for good education and better treatment and hand over anyone you want to india.this is bizarre.even you blamed us for siachen hahaha.and how mujahadeen in india die without pakistani support? these guys snatch weapons from police stations,i mean we aren't responsible for snatching.Hope you actually reply & not just ignore me because you can't argue.
You were created to be enemy of India and sole possible way to make your country survive is to keep yourself enemy. The day there is peace, partition of India will reverse.
No, we want it. Lot of Indians want it. A decisive war with significant casualties at once only will prevent daily casualties in terror attacks.
Nothing bad in it.
By start to undoing British partition. Pakistan needs to surrender it's military and handover its security to India becoming a semi protectorate of India.
In long term, Indian education system will help to reverse brainwashing and reintegration with Indian Union.
Your country doesn't agree with you. They are again and again trying to involve other countries despite our objections.
We had been sitting there till 2014. Nothing happened, only more blood to India civies.
Now, we came across border and things start to fall in line. It works!
Coz laton ke bhoot baton se nahi mante. You slowly start to legtimize those people and they cause trouble.
Kashmir dispute isn't about Jammu & Kashmir with India. Kashmir dispute is only about Aksai Chin, Gilgit & Baltistan and so called AJK. Rest of territory is undisputed.
You control the groups who cause those "big" things.
It's you guys who used to proudly take credit even before we accuse you.
Now, your country is screwed in all fronts and you have to be silent. Only that is the difference.
Their bodies or them being caught in India is more than enough of proof.
Since you guys never take action against those "stupid" people you claim not to be your representatives, it raises further suspicions. You guys are called terrorists' safe heaven for a very good reason.
What? He's a hero in Pakistan. Your establishment was defending him. In fact, all terrorists are.
You put the posters of Osama written with "alive" after his encounter.
Don't worry, slowly this will add up too.
As India rises to a powerful position on globe, our point of view will become the point of view of globe eventually.
Do what Indian government wants. End terrorism, simple is that.
India's policy is actually sane now. Any normal country with self respect would do this what's India's doing right now.
Problem was our pseudo secular Muslim apologizer left wing government who was giving so many exemptions to enemies inside and outside our home.
Right Wing will teach them to fall in line and remind them their real aukaat!
This isn't much in anyway.
Pakistan needs to be weakened and brought to knees for international security. Existence of Pakistan is the root of problems of even people living in it.
It needs to get colonized to be reintegrated with India in future or disintegrated into smaller states. Only then we will have peace.
And then rewind the clock back even before Siachen and find that you backstabbed us on table everytime.
And then we realize that what we are doing isn't wrong.
You have no say in Kashmir. Pakistan invaded Kashmir to annex it, India integrated Kashmir in it.
UN resolution 48 doesn't recognize Pakistani controlled part as legal FYI.
Your say doesn't matter either. You are a country carved out of India on religious lines. Term "Pakistanization" refers to division of society itself.
Islam is an Arabic religion and has no right on Kashmir.
It's failure of your courts who don't even take their own boasting videos and murders of witnesses as enough proof.
They are our criminals. Send them to our courts.
You mean to move on from attrition war to full scale war?
Because talks haven't given anything.
Besides MiGs, I don't think that we have anything vintage in our inventory. These are oldest fighters of IAF.
Pakistan on other hand, has its entire fleet obsolete as per IAF standards except 70 odd F-16s.
India accounts for 65% area, 75% population and 80% economy of the region.
Case closed.
- Damage to any other country doesn't country make difference to region.
- Harm to India what Pakistan can do can't make that difference.
- Damageed Pakistan doesn't make any difference to region.
- Damage India receives doesn't make much difference to it. Hence, not even region.
Only you are failing. We have been growing very fast catching up with them for last 30 years. In upcoming decades, India will be in a position to even match US, Russia & China.
Gap between India & Pakistan is growing.
If you really forget them, their funding will die and they will collapse.
However, till the time they exist.
You created the problem. So, you are responsible for what they do.
Your feelings exist for Muslims, not Kashmir. You guys don't ever talk about Kashmiri Hindus. Real people of that region.
Then you wouldn't even have created those groups. Right now you are pulling yourself out of Kashmir quagmire because you can't fight against India.
With every single day passing on, gap between India & Pakistan is rising to a level pushing you to backfoot.
In short, Islam is the problem and hurts peace everywhere in the world.
The "state" soldiers opposing them are also Kashmiris FYI.
Not really, there are certain areas from where infiltration happens. Its impossible to completely control such a long border. However, India is boosting surveillance lately.
- Because they are Muslims.
- They are sponsored by Pakistani ISI.
oh really, then why it didn't exist before 80s. Why Kashmir with India was so peaceful for 3 decades of freedom?
Why no separatism was here before "bleeding India to thousand cuts" doctrine.
No worries.
We have come to know it and we are doing this. By weakening Pakistan down to knees, the mother of problems in the region.
Americans were openly hostile to us for 50 years. It's only our growing strength that made then soft their stance and our conflicts China to review them their policy.
They still are not comfortable with us. We still have differences where we quarrel. Follow this thread out of your echo chamber.
Americans don't give a damn about Afghanistan issue. They feel like staying there is too costly and doesn't serve them anymore. So they are leaving.
Their mission was to push back Soviet influence and thanks to Pakistan, who caused millions if deaths with its Taliban and totally destabilized that country that no country is ready to invest in Afghanistan.
After US leaves, Pakistan will open its terror factories in Afghanistan like it keeps in itself to use them against India.
That also explains why India is getting so assertive, aggressive & bold now.
Feel important, you don't have any value before them. You even matter only till they are in Afghanistan. The day theh withdraw, you'll lose favours. The day India snatches PoK from you, cutting you off from China, they won't even keep any relations with you.
They joined hands with India to have one more friend in east like Japan and not having one more enemy in the east like China.
Seriously, they don't need to join hands with us to do anything against you. They can declare you terrorists state, force others not to keep relations with you like Iran. Or they could simply hit you like Iraq & Syria citing terrorism or persecution of weak communities.
Whom are you telling that? Tell that to Americans. :biggrin2:
We are baniyas and we are bigger opportunists than them.
India maintains that it hit a terror camp and not Pakistani civilian and military entities.
If you cite sovereignity for protest, you are also directly saying that you control them.
I mean stay on one side of argument. When you said India doesn't control them, India hit them themselves. But you came crying sovereignity then.
They are doing it now as surveillance has been intensified recently.
The explosive was accumulated gradually in Kashmir.
The only point I'm ready to accept that local Muslims were also involved.
Correctly said, Madarasa mein English toh sikhate hai nahi. Word by word google translate karne mein time toh lagega hi:bounce:
Seriously? Every inch? Do you have any idea of the size of the border? Don’t brink this amateur types of arguments here men, you are better than that.
You can have the best pest control system, still few vermin do a walk in. That's how pakis like to operate. Like you, you manage to sneak into this forum and spread your filth. Better start accumulating dollars ......lol
Well mam, you are correct but I want to say.The IAF apparently did not have the hardened aircraft shelters (HAS) deemed necessary for airbases close to a potentially hostile border and for force protection of any topline fighters based there, such as its premier SU-30 MKI's and MiG-29K.
The order to build such shelters had gone out years earlier, per public reports, but at the time of the 2019 clash had still not been done. No open source information exists specifying the exact reasons why the HAS was not built, but it can be inferred to some combination of politics, funding, infighting, and beauracratic slothfullness.
Another reason is that our MiG-21 Bisons, while old, were heavily upgraded in avionics, sensors, and weapons and were a decent match for a 4th generation warplane if flown by a skilled pilot. The IAF brass was confident that Pakistan's F-16's, while more modern and easier to fly, was not an overmatch for their Bison fighters.
A final inferred reason was political. The IAF played it smart by keeping MiG-21's at the unprotected forward airbases. The Bison is a fast Mach 2 interceptor and was good enough to stand off an attacking force until more advanced units arrived. The IAF knew if they lost some old, albeit upgraded MiG 21's to PAF F-16's the Pakistanis could only claim victory over an old fighter. If the MiG-21 scored a kill on a more advanced PAF warplane then IAF could claim a big win, seeing as how they did it on a third generation platform. Additionally, the MiG-21's were perfect for keeping the PAF jets engaged while advanced units rushed to the battle zone. The PAF jets would be busy fighting and poorly placed to take on powerful platforms such as the SU-30 rushing in for a kill. This is exactly what we did, and may explain the PAF's actions in turning away the minute they had warning from their Saab AEW's of the MiG29K and SU-30's heading their way. They exited the battlespace and fired off a defensive volley of AMRAAMS at near maximum range as cover for the manuever.
With this strategy the IAF set up the battle space so that older, less valuable units went in to confront the intruding fighter package first while allowing their high value units to stage safely behind the combat zone for a counterstrike. They also denied the PAF the chance to down a premier fighter or destroy them on the ground in their unprotected shelters, instead leaving their old MiG 21's in the exposed positions.
The strategy was effective as the IAF drove off a much larger fighter package (8 IAF vs. 24 PAF) and scored a kill on a modern F-16 while losing an older MiG-21 in the process. Time will undoubtedly reveal more of the answers!
View attachment 34767
View attachment 34768
I think it is MiG29K. I am not sure. MiG29K were lately inducted , right?
I'm used to write longer mails than that.
Not every but lot of problems.
Especially Kashmir.
These aren't "just" things.
Yes off course, are they more valuable for you than rest of Pakistanis. OR
Not Siachen but entire quagmire.
India never took support from Pakistan in counter terror operations.
They are found with US & other costly weapons which aren't used by Indian police.
Mig 29k are carrier borne jets operated by navy, IAF operates the UPG fighters.
