IAF MiG-21 shoots down Pakistani F-16

[patriots]

Scenario of dogfight......................

 

[ezsasa]

You don't need a deep state compulsorily for covert war. NTRO, RAW 7 IB can do that if they want.

I’d say....

Somebody needs to fund them, and funding needs political will, political will needs support for the cause from Indian industry, industry needs to view Pakistan as a threat, which they don’t because we are a consumption economy.

That’s the reason I say economy needs to grow, so that industry starts recognising potential threats to their profit margins.

 

[Kshatriya87]

I’d say....

Somebody needs to fund them, and funding needs political will, political will needs support for the cause from Indian industry, industry needs to view Pakistan as a threat, which they don’t because we are a consumption economy.

That’s the reason I say economy needs to grow, so that industry starts recognising potential threats to their profit margins.

There are funds for RAW diverted to cyber tracking. Why not use those for psywars? Anyways, what RAW does with its funds is a state secret.

Political will is definitely not a problem under Modi and Doval.

 

[hit&run]

There is always something more, than what meets the eyes.

Objectives of Indian strike - portraid by Gov is non military and preemptive.

But I believe it's only half side of coin, preemptive dosent mean anything. Those infrastructure and manpower will be up and running in 6 weeks.

My assessment is - This was to signal ISI to stop supporting Terrorism and signal that further attack will be costly affair of ISI run government. More of symbolic gesture.
I dont believe we will ever come to know about actual damage in numbers.

But the media reaction and adverse turn of events, seem to have emboldened Pakistan even more.

Sending 24 Jets into Indian airspace in broad daylight was big risk. Could have resulted in annihilation of Pakistan and public cresibility insult of vast proportions.

So more than the strike , something else is needed to deter and discourage Pakistan. This is what another game is being planned by the NSA.

My 2 cents, Frequest Indian strikes wont play with Indian opposition and domestic audience. Perhaps Afghanistan, Balochistan and Iran will come into this picture. Direct threat and harm to CPEC by Indian intelligence agencies is being worked out.
That's my guess. Why waste our weapons. Use Other frontiers and Territorial border. Once Iran comes into picture and engages ISI. Battle will move from Kashmir to West Pakistan battleground. I am sure ver soon Israel drones and Indian jets will be stationed in Iran and Afghanistan.

You are running in circles.

Does preemption mean nothing?

Preemptions come with signals, rather more profound signals.

Every simpleton wants signals to be decoded and spoonfeed to them.

The Preemptive action described as non-military is actually a military strike of strategic comportment.

Doing analysis in the hindsight is quite easy especially when you have conveniently missed decades-old dilemma how to call the Pakistani nuclear bluff out. How it should have been done, how the ladder to escalation should have been climbed doesn't matter to us any more?

How easy it has become for everyone to comment that not much has been done so far.

Invading Pakistani and hitting mainland 80KM inside is not a signal but waste of weapons is such a juvenile rant that it has reduced the average IQ of this forum.

And kindly stop appealing for civility, people here are mature enough to handle anything that is thrown at them.

 

[ezsasa]

There are funds for RAW diverted to cyber tracking. Why not use those for psywars? Anyways, what RAW does with its funds is a state secret.

Political will is definitely not a problem under Modi and Doval.

sure...
but you have to think decades in advance not just one term.

 

[Immanuel]

Not sure if it's been discussed but this does need answering. Why did more of our jets not attack back when AMRAAMs were fired at them?

That depends on the nature of scramble and distances involved, Pakis it appears went into corny douche mode by launching their 3-4 Aims at incoming aircraft first, probably a couple of MKI went into defensive mode while Bison went in for the head on merge except with the Pukis running scared broke radar contact with Aims (which rely on initial guidance on the aircraft), the closest one went high and got a R-73 up the wazoo. Having one of their newest and shiniest bird being shot probably made sure they high tailed out of their with burners on, it's also fully possible they the MKI's had locks on them.

 

[Kshatriya87]

sure...
but you have to think decades in advance not just one term.

Yeah. We will need state of the art equipment for that. Maybe Israel can help.

 

[ezsasa]

Incase not been posted yet...

This is as good as it is gets...

=========

Visual. And locked. That was the final radio call from IAF pilot Wing Commander Abhinandan Varthaman’s MiG-21 Bison before he pushed a button on his stick, letting loose the only weapon fired by the eight Indian jets in the air at the time. The weapon he fired, a Vympel R-73, was seen hitting the jet he was pursuing across the Line of Control. His own radar warning receiver was blaring by this time, and while he said to have attempted countermeasures to ‘go cold’, his aircraft was struck by what is believed to be an AIM-20 AMRAAM missile, bringing him and his jet down across the Line of Control in Pakistan-occupied Kashmir.

The word ‘visual’ is, interestingly, US Air Force pilot-speak for ‘friendly aircraft in sight’, as opposed to ‘tally’, which denotes an enemy aircraft in visual range.

Livefist has had a chance to review select debrief data and speak with IAF officers familiar with the unprecedented aerial face-off on the morning of February 27.

On the morning of February 27 — a day after Indian air strikes in Balakot, Pakistan — the Indian Air Force had two standing combat air patrols in the Jammu & Kashmir area — a pair of upgraded Mirage 2000s and two Su-30 MKIs, along with a Netra airborne early warning and control jet and a Phalcon AWACS keeping watch. The initial ‘pick-up’ of the approaching Pakistan Air Force fighter package was by ground radars. The inbound force was a large one, comprising at least 24 PAF jets in separate loose formations. Among the jets were at least three Dassault Mirage III aircraft armed with strike weapons. When the formation crossed from Pakistan in airspace over PoK, the Indian Air Force scrambled six MiG-21 Bison interceptors — three from Srinagar and three from Avantipora.

The Pakistani jets were inbound from a west-south westerly direction. A very loose mixed formation of Mirage IIIs deployed H-4 stand-off precision guided glide bombs with penetrator warheads at Indian military installations in the Rajouri sector with some of them hitting military land, but not causing any damage to structures or establishment buildings. Livefist has had a chance to review photographs of the weapon remnants recovered on the Indian side, including the starboard fin section of an H-4 bomb bearing the serial number ‘P695’. The photographs, apparently refuting Pakistani claims that their strikes were deliberately mis-aimed only to send India a counter-message after the Balakot strikes, are part of an Indian Air Force dossier of the day’s proceedings that will be submitted to the government this week. The IAF’s official conclusion in this dossier is that the H-4 bombs were deployed specifically to cause damage.

As the stand-off strikes took place, an air-to-air battle commenced with the two Indian Su-30s reporting (in their debrief) repeated radar locks from the Pakistani F-16s beyond visual range, and manoeuvering in the air to turn ‘cold’ on the weapon locks. IAF sources indicated to Livefist that the F-16s were looking specifically to shoot down a Su-30 — something that would have been a major loss for the IAF. The Su-30s (and later, three of the MiG-21s) are said to have flown patterns to remain ‘kinematically safe’ against the repeated AMRAAM locks even as the distance between the Indian and Pakistani jets loosely closed over the Line of Control. The hot-cold radar lock sequence continued for several minutes, with the PAF F-16s repeatedly attempting to sustain locks on the Su-30 MKIs long enough for meaningful shots. Sources say the three AMRAAMs were launched in DMAX-1, the dynamic attack zone where the missile is unleashed at the limits of its range. On all three occasions, the Su-30s used countermeasures to dodge the incoming weapons.

While the other jets, including the Mirage 2000s also recorded locks on them from the F-16s, Wing Commander Abhinandan’s MiG-21 out front was also ‘hot’ on an AMRAAM. However, he was now fully within visual range of an F-16 that was turning away to speed back towards Pakistan-occupied Kashmir. Livefist has been given to understand that Wing Commander responded to two warnings from radar controllers to turn back (since he was minutes from crossing into hostile airspace) with radar calls saying he had an aircraft in visual range and was attempting a manual lock. Moments later, with his lock confirmed, he gave a final call saying he had the lock tone, before launching a single R-73 close combat missile. The pilot would later record in a debriefing that he saw his missile hit the retreating F-16 in the port rear section and that it was brought down. Moments later, as Wing Commander Abhinandan initiated evasive maneouvers to defeat the incoming AMRAAM, the missile struck his MiG-21, forcing the pilot to punch out.

The R-73 fired by Wing Commander Abhinandan was the only Indian weapon launched during the aerial engagement, leading the Indian Air Force to officially attribute the F-16 kill to him. None of the other jets launched weapons, likely because of a lack of target solutions. It is also likely that rules of engagement had been modified, though the IAF has refused to confirm or deny.

 

[sunnyv]

You are running in circles.

Does preemption mean nothing?

Preemptions come with signals, rather more profound signals.

Every simpleton wants signals to be decoded and spoonfeed to them.

The Preemptive action described as non-military is actually a military strike of strategic comportment.

Doing analysis in the hindsight is quite easy especially when you have conveniently missed decades-old dilemma how to call the Pakistani nuclear bluff out. How it should have been done, how the ladder to escalation should have been climbed doesn't matter to us any more?

How easy it has become for everyone to comment that not much has been done so far.

Invading Pakistani and hitting mainland 80KM inside is not a signal but waste of weapons is such a juvenile rant that it has reduced the average IQ of this forum.

And kindly stop appealing for civility, people here are mature enough to handle anything that is thrown at them.

Personal attack aside. U need to be mature and open to have a meaningful discussion. Which apparently is not evident. So please dont quote me again. No hard feelings.

Cheers.
Jai hind

 

[Dazzler]

Incase not been posted yet...

This is as good as it is gets...

=========

Visual. And locked. That was the final radio call from IAF pilot Wing Commander Abhinandan Varthaman’s MiG-21 Bison before he pushed a button on his stick, letting loose the only weapon fired by the eight Indian jets in the air at the time. The weapon he fired, a Vympel R-73, was seen hitting the jet he was pursuing across the Line of Control. His own radar warning receiver was blaring by this time, and while he said to have attempted countermeasures to ‘go cold’, his aircraft was struck by what is believed to be an AIM-20 AMRAAM missile, bringing him and his jet down across the Line of Control in Pakistan-occupied Kashmir.

The word ‘visual’ is, interestingly, US Air Force pilot-speak for ‘friendly aircraft in sight’, as opposed to ‘tally’, which denotes an enemy aircraft in visual range.

Livefist has had a chance to review select debrief data and speak with IAF officers familiar with the unprecedented aerial face-off on the morning of February 27.

On the morning of February 27 — a day after Indian air strikes in Balakot, Pakistan — the Indian Air Force had two standing combat air patrols in the Jammu & Kashmir area — a pair of upgraded Mirage 2000s and two Su-30 MKIs, along with a Netra airborne early warning and control jet and a Phalcon AWACS keeping watch. The initial ‘pick-up’ of the approaching Pakistan Air Force fighter package was by ground radars. The inbound force was a large one, comprising at least 24 PAF jets in separate loose formations. Among the jets were at least three Dassault Mirage III aircraft armed with strike weapons. When the formation crossed from Pakistan in airspace over PoK, the Indian Air Force scrambled six MiG-21 Bison interceptors — three from Srinagar and three from Avantipora.

The Pakistani jets were inbound from a west-south westerly direction. A very loose mixed formation of Mirage IIIs deployed H-4 stand-off precision guided glide bombs with penetrator warheads at Indian military installations in the Rajouri sector with some of them hitting military land, but not causing any damage to structures or establishment buildings. Livefist has had a chance to review photographs of the weapon remnants recovered on the Indian side, including the starboard fin section of an H-4 bomb bearing the serial number ‘P695’. The photographs, apparently refuting Pakistani claims that their strikes were deliberately mis-aimed only to send India a counter-message after the Balakot strikes, are part of an Indian Air Force dossier of the day’s proceedings that will be submitted to the government this week. The IAF’s official conclusion in this dossier is that the H-4 bombs were deployed specifically to cause damage.

As the stand-off strikes took place, an air-to-air battle commenced with the two Indian Su-30s reporting (in their debrief) repeated radar locks from the Pakistani F-16s beyond visual range, and manoeuvering in the air to turn ‘cold’ on the weapon locks. IAF sources indicated to Livefist that the F-16s were looking specifically to shoot down a Su-30 — something that would have been a major loss for the IAF. The Su-30s (and later, three of the MiG-21s) are said to have flown patterns to remain ‘kinematically safe’ against the repeated AMRAAM locks even as the distance between the Indian and Pakistani jets loosely closed over the Line of Control. The hot-cold radar lock sequence continued for several minutes, with the PAF F-16s repeatedly attempting to sustain locks on the Su-30 MKIs long enough for meaningful shots. Sources say the three AMRAAMs were launched in DMAX-1, the dynamic attack zone where the missile is unleashed at the limits of its range. On all three occasions, the Su-30s used countermeasures to dodge the incoming weapons.

While the other jets, including the Mirage 2000s also recorded locks on them from the F-16s, Wing Commander Abhinandan’s MiG-21 out front was also ‘hot’ on an AMRAAM. However, he was now fully within visual range of an F-16 that was turning away to speed back towards Pakistan-occupied Kashmir. Livefist has been given to understand that Wing Commander responded to two warnings from radar controllers to turn back (since he was minutes from crossing into hostile airspace) with radar calls saying he had an aircraft in visual range and was attempting a manual lock. Moments later, with his lock confirmed, he gave a final call saying he had the lock tone, before launching a single R-73 close combat missile. The pilot would later record in a debriefing that he saw his missile hit the retreating F-16 in the port rear section and that it was brought down. Moments later, as Wing Commander Abhinandan initiated evasive maneouvers to defeat the incoming AMRAAM, the missile struck his MiG-21, forcing the pilot to punch out.

The R-73 fired by Wing Commander Abhinandan was the only Indian weapon launched during the aerial engagement, leading the Indian Air Force to officially attribute the F-16 kill to him. None of the other jets launched weapons, likely because of a lack of target solutions. It is also likely that rules of engagement had been modified, though the IAF has refused to confirm or deny.

As per some fantasy riders, he almost shot the aircraft that was not even used in the entire episode.

In the meantime, your ace left this...

 

[ezsasa]

As per some fantasy riders, he almost shot the aircraft that was not even used in the entire episode.

In the meantime, your ace left this...

View attachment 33120

here's my contribution to your delusion of grandeur...

 

[Okabe Rintarou]

As per some fantasy riders, he almost shot the aircraft that was not even used in the entire episode.

In the meantime, your ace left this...




View attachment 33120

Keep it. HMDS is alien tech for beggers like you. None of your fighters have it. Which is why your F-16 were afraid to engage our MiG-21 in WVR combat. Which is why your F-16 got shot down as it tried to run. Shot in the back. Like a coward.

 

[Rahul Singh]

As per some fantasy riders, he almost shot the aircraft that was not even used in the entire episode.

In the meantime, your ace left this...




View attachment 33120

This is the HMS that made Mig-21's R-73 IR seeker obtain the lock on RED-HOT-ASS of fleeing Paki F-16 at 60* off-boresight angle.

Did I say fleeing F-16? Too bad another Paki getting shot on the back. Anyway Quite typical.

Interestingly first PROOF of Paki F-16 getting shot is out.

So keep it paki and store it in FIZZ-ka-LE-LIYA museum. And display to the world when 2nd time a Paki F-16 was shot down by another inferior aircraft. First one was Soviet Mig-23.

BTW Wing Co did not just leave his HMS there but he also took away Pakistani Izzat with him. That considering Pakistani had any IZZAT to spare.

 

[Anathema]

Interestingly first PROOF of Paki F-16 getting shot is out.

.

What proof exactly ? Did not come across any new stuff

 

[maomao]

Did paki fauj pay tribute to the dead paki F16 pilot or he is going to rot in some unmarked grave like 100s of paki armymen from Kargil defeat of paki army in 1999?

It's really sad that to hide their F16 being shot down by a Vintage MIG21 they are disrespecting their dead heros, like the pilot of F16 who got his F16 shot by Abhinandan's vintage MIG21 !!

Disrespectful to the core! However, paki punjabis are known
sore losers!

 

[Dazzler]

What proof exactly ? Did not come across any new stuff

The best proof are the fantasies they have been discussing on the forum. If pushed, theyll bring 71 into the discussion. The month of february has been tough on these guys.

 

[Dazzler]

Did paki fauj pay tribute to the dead paki F16 pilot or he is going to rot in some unmarked grave like 100s of paki armymen from Kargil defeat of paki army in 1999?

It's really sad that to hide their F16 being shot down by a Vintage MIG21 they are disrespecting their dead heros, like the pilot of F16 who got his F16 shot by Abhinandan's vintage MIG21 !!

We dont pay tribute to those who dont exist. Continue with your fantasy parade.

 

[Srinivas_K]

We dont pay tribute to those who dont exist. Continue with your fantasy parade.

Dude, it is evident from the pics which came from Pakistan that the crashed engine belongs to F16 D, twin seater. Local accounts from Pakistan said that they saw three parachutes.

 

[maomao]

We dont pay tribute to those who dont exist. Continue with your fantasy parade.

Sad, you guys refused to acknowledge your dead even during 1999 kargil war defeat! In 1971 you were winning the war according to New York Times and ISI, what happened next we all know.

That's such a sad state of affairs in paki armed forces. Atleast, give him due respect. When things will come out and they will as US of A is after your ass, you will again feel embarrassed. So, it's high time to pay the required respect to pilot of shotdown F16.

 

[Dazzler]

Dude, it is evident from the pics that came from Pakistan that the crashed engine belongs to F16 D, twin seater. Local accounts from Pakistan said that they saw three parachutes.

Are you really that gullible? I bet you have seen the video where your expert busted the claim.