HAL Prachand - Light Combat Helicopter (LCH)

[SilentKiller]

The Mil-24/35 is one of the most heavily armoured helicopters ever built. It was reasonable to use it for observation due to this very fact. It can go close to enemy targets on the ground with little risk. The downside is that it does not perform very well in high altitude. HAL LCH is built to perform in high altitude, and therefore, it cannot afford to be as heavily armoured as the Mil-24/35, and therefore, it would be unwise to use the HAL LCH for close observation.

When it comes to looking down, it is not the same thing as shooting down. The Mil-24/35 has the VSPU-24 turret which has an elevation of 20 degrees and depression of 60 degrees. It cannot shoot anything directly under it. It also has azimuthal angles of 60 degrees on either side, so it cannot shoot anything behind it.

On a related note, the Mil-24/35 rarely hovers when in combat.

I think HAL LCH is not going to be at any disadvantage when compared to other attack helicopters in service today.

However, a 360 degree azimuthal and 90 degree depression would not be a bad capability to have.

maybe adding a pod just under the center line of helicopeter can solve bind spot below and behind the helicopter. a long bow type setup won't help..
LCH can keep EO pod as its there and add a below detection pod on center line (if need arise) as a payload, but this will increase weight as its already 5800 kg (max take off weight), IAF requirement is not to exceed anymore..adding pod will reduce weapon load, so can only be used for anti - infantory role then, remove pod u can use for anti - armor, below detection is not required then.
@Scrutator all other helicopter like Z10 is 7000 Kg +..so LCH cannot be compared with Apache or Mi35 or Viper (8000+ Kg)..LCH was tailored made for india

best comparison helicopter for our LCH is Tiger helicopter.

 

[Scrutator]

Question -
If a attack helicopter is flying hugging terrain, its better it looks what's in front of it or what's below its?
i.e. when something is flying and its mission is to find and destroy quickly, isn't that the helicopeter with EO facing front and not below is better in.detection what is in front as those target its is still to reach. whereas target below it, it will detect when its above it and it might be too late to take action. helicopter still needs to be moved to attack targets below it?

The issue is not if the helo should look in front or below. EO pod oriented upwards or downwards will both provide the front view

simply put
say as EO pod on front (Rudra style) detect a target directly infront of it, say heli facing rock side and not other side, now helicopter can only detect what's on other side of rock when its coming back.
In case of EO Pod below (Apache), it will detect target below it i.e. both sides of the rock but will it be not too late as to taeget what's below it, helicopter still needs to be moved?

How quickly the helo can react to targets/threats below/behind it is a different question (even though attack helos can sometimes do a vertical dive and engage their cannons and can also quickly turn around when required). Irrespective of how arduous it may be to turn around, it doesn't sound prudent to not even look and realize what threats/targets are around the helo

Another important thing to remember is that despite most on this thread getting fixated with tank busting role, an attack helo like Rudra has multiple other functions viz. CSAR, Special Ops etc. The expectation of a velvet road to target and back is a myth!!

if EO Pod below is so better tham EO pod above like in case of Rudra/LCH/Tiger/Turkish, what's the need fro adding long pod over the rotor, that means helicopter lacks ability to detect targets infront of it, so 1 apache with long bow detects those targets and get other apache know of cordinate.

The mast mounted pod on Apache is not an EO pod, but a Fire Control Radar. As regards the mast mounted EO pod on Tiger and the nose mounted EO on T129, I have already explained that several time already. Tiger gets a thumbs up! T129 gets a thumbs down (for the end product, but the Turks are not to be blamed as they just retrofited a modern pod on an old helo)!

 

[Scrutator]

maybe adding a pod just under the center line of helicopeter can solve bind spot below and behind the helicopter. a long bow type setup won't help..
LCH can keep EO pod as its there and add a below detection pod on center line (if need arise) as a payload, but this will increase weight as its already 5800 kg (max take off weight), IAF requirement is not to exceed anymore..adding pod will reduce weapon load, so can only be used for anti - infantory role then, remove pod u can use for anti - armor, below detection is not required then.

There's a simpler solution. Just flip the existing EO pod 180 deg.

@Scrutator all other helicopter like Z10 is 7000 Kg +..so LCH cannot be compared with Apache or Mi35 or Viper (8000+ Kg)..LCH was tailored made for india

best comparison helicopter for our LCH is Tiger helicopter.

I don't think the weight category of the helicopter has any bearing. All of them are geared for exactly same roles (anti tank, anti personnel, anti helicopter, anti UAV etc) - the difference is only in how much ordnance they can carry! Either you drive a car or a truck, you need both your side view mirrors.

 

[hacker J]

I've been trying to find an answer as to why the CoMPASS Electro-optic pod on LCH/Rudra is oriented in a way different from that of most successful attack helos.

Does anyone else feel that the CoMPASS (electro-optic) pod on Rudra/LCH should have been flipped 180 degrees (much like most modern attack helicopters like Apache, Viper, Mi-35, WZ-10 etc)? It should have been fixed such that the domed part is pointing downwards while it's base is fixed to the underside of Rudra/LCH 'protruberance' (which itself could be raised slightly higher to make room) .
That way LCH/Rudra can 'see' under the helicopter and have a vast visibility angle; which is especially useful for surveillance (of terrorists and enemy troops) and recon missions. The current (inefficient) design seems to restrict the CoMPASS's visibility to only that limited 'cone' where the autocannon could be pointed at.
Thoughts? See the pictures/illustrations below......

View attachment 13488

This orientation (EO pod pointing downwards gives the helos like Apace, Viper, Mi-35, WZ-10 etc) a complete down view and of course forward view when rotated)

View attachment 13489

LCH/Rudra's EO pod can be rotated up and backwards but it cannot see down (due to obstruction), as such when flying over mountainous areas it is likely to be miss a lot of targets....

View attachment 13490

Care explaning since when helos started flying straight except when hovering ? And mountains ur talking are way way way ..... Bigger

 

[Scrutator]

Care explaning since when helos started flying straight except when hovering ?

Not sure what you mean. Would love to explain when I understand your question better.

And mountains ur talking are way way way ..... Bigger

Sure, several mountains are way bigger than what I could draw. Again, not sure what the point is?
It's the angle of the mountainous slope that's the the issue (not the size per se). Exceptionally large mountains also have very steep slopes (some almost rising vertically on some sides...).

 

[deepak ghanvatkar]

This is a very bad comment on Light combat helicopter. When it comes from a sitting general it become demoralising, many soldiers and officers will take it at face value...

 

[AnantS]

View attachment 13653 This is a very bad comment on Light combat helicopter. When it comes from a sitting general it become demoralising, many soldiers and officers will take it at face value...

He wants Apache choppers for Army. He is not satisfied by Rudra Alone. Airforce is going to oppose it.
EDIT: HE is not criticizing Platform. He is lamenting lack of suitable ATGM missiles for platform

 

[deepak ghanvatkar]

OK,
But He is a general and he can use his channels to communicate or press the government what he want. Generally many take every word of the general as 100% truth no questions asked or no interpretation and no political colour as our army is apolitical. In such atmoshphere he must word his statement very carefully that is all I mean ... nothing against anyone.

 

[AnantS]

OK,
But He is a general and he can use his channels to communicate or press the government what he want. Generally many take every word of the general as 100% truth no questions asked or no interpretation and no political colour as our army is apolitical. In such atmoshphere he must word his statement very carefully that is all I mean ... nothing against anyone.

Generals speak when he wants to build urgency. What looks like is Govt is dithering on making decision on procuring 3rd party ATGM. And Army is getting impatient.

 

[WolfPack86]

With final standard frozen, HAL’s LCH to enter limited series production in 2018

HAL has confirmed that with LCH TD4, LCH airframe design has been frozen and HAL has been working on the Limited serial production of the Light Combat helicopter (LCH) soon. As per Industrial sources close to idrw.org, HAL has started to work on 5 Light Combat helicopter (LCH) which are of Limited serial production standard and first squadron will be ready by 2019. HAL’s LCH are currently undergoing integration of ATGM – anti-tank guided missile to demonstrate its capability while DRDO developed Helina ATGM is yet to enter production. LCH has been fine tuned by Indian air force and Indian Army pilots who have been specially deputed to LCH Program. IAF and Indian Army combined have placed initial requirement for 179 Light Combat helicopter (LCH) with Indian Army set to become the largest operator of the LCH fleet with orders for 114 units. LCH is specifically developed to operate at high-altitude and already has carried has proven its capability to land and take off from Forward Landing Base like Siachen.
http://idrw.org/with-final-standard-frozen-hals-lch-to-enter-limited-series-production-in-2018/

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Any other report where Army chief is criticizing in such a way ..

Editor and journalists are known from twisting words for better ratings ..

 

[Bornubus]

View attachment 13653 This is a very bad comment on Light combat helicopter. When it comes from a sitting general it become demoralising, many soldiers and officers will take it at face value...

This was expected and the fate of LCH (if this news is true)

 

[Alok Arya]

How lch will guide atgm . Through IRTS or radar ? Is there is any radar in lch ? Can anyone summarise the sensors of lch ?

 

[Scrutator]

How lch will guide atgm . Through IRTS or radar ? Is there is any radar in lch ? Can anyone summarise the sensors of lch ?

No radar. Just the CoMPASS Eletro-optic sensor. IR data from the CoMPASS is transferred to the IR seeker on the Helina (in Lock on before Launch mode); once launched, Helina will send its seeker data back to LCH via an RF link and the pilot has the option to re-select any other target (if required).

 

[Alok Arya]

No radar. Just the CoMPASS Eletro-optic sensor. IR data from the CoMPASS is transferred to the IR seeker on the Helina (in Lock on before Launch mode); once launched, Helina will send its seeker data back to LCH via an RF link and the pilot has the option to re-select any other target.

Yes no radar . What I get from wiki --- ccd camera , flir , laser range finder, laser designator , helmet mounted site , for target acquisition , and for defence there will be radar warning receiver , laser warning receiver, missile approach warning system , and electro ware fare suit .
So flir will be use for heat seeking air to air missile , and atgm .
Helmate mounted site for cannon .
Laser range finder and laser designator of laser guided bomb and smart weapon and munitation .
Rockets will unguided and how target acquired for rocket .

 

[Scrutator]

All correct, except that I haven't heard of laser guided bombs or smart munitions in conjunction with LCH - although one might think it would be possible. Dropping bombs may not be LCH's primary role.

 

[Alok Arya]

All correct, except that I haven't heard of laser guided bombs or smart munitions in conjunction with LCH - although one might think it would be possible. Dropping bombs may not be LCH's primary role.

You may be right , but than what will be role of laser range finder and laser designator ?
Can you throw some light on role of ccd camera ?

 

[Scrutator]

You may be right , but than what will be role of laser range finder and laser designator ?
Can you throw some light on role of ccd camera ?

The sensors are not custom made for LCH; Elbit's CoMPASS is an off-the-shelf pod (that comes as a package) that they chose to mount on LCH. Range finder has a ubiquitous role, the pilot can use it in conjunction with the cannon or for rockets.

The laser designator may or may not be used in any specific role. Technically LCH could carry a 250 kg laser guided bomb for attack; or LCH could help designate a target for another aircraft (maybe Jaguar) to drop its laser guided bomb. These are just capabilities, but may not be used it that fashion.

The Camera essentially gives LCH night vision.

The payload capacity of LCH is very limited, so it's standard fare would mostly be ATGMs and AAMs.

 

[Shaitan]

The sensors are not custom made for LCH; Elbit's CoMPASS is an off-the-shelf pod (that comes as a package) that they chose to mount on LCH. Range finder has a ubiquitous role, the pilot can use it in conjunction with the cannon or for rockets.

The laser designator may or may not be used in any specific role. Technically LCH could carry a 250 kg laser guided bomb for attack; or LCH could help designate a target for another aircraft (maybe Jaguar) to drop its laser guided bomb. These are just capabilities, but may not be used it that fashion.

The payload capacity of LCH is very limited, so it's standard fare would mostly be ATGMs and AAMs.

Would there be any conflict putting IRDE-DRDO's new long range pod?

Going to go on Rustom 2 eventually.

 

[Scrutator]

Would there be any conflict putting IRDE-DRDO's new long range pod?

Going to go on Rustom 2 eventually.

Seems unlikely. This appears like a long range pod, LCH may not need this kind of range; and further this long range is coming with more than doubling of the weight. LCH's ATGMs will have a range of 7 kms - the CoMPASS has a range of 20 kms, that's more than adequate.
This pod (as you pointed out) seems ideal for high flying UAVs.