HAL Prachand - Light Combat Helicopter (LCH)

[ppgj]

Well of the top of my head.

There is the
Engine(it really is french)

my reply to you was not including this as it is widely known and i agree that engine is french though HAL considers it more a joint effort. but besides that most core components are indian like main and tail rotor blades, all gear boxes, transmission systems, crashworthy under carriage, main fuselage etc...

The NExter main gun
Rocket pods
The Air to air missiles

these do not fundamentally constitute as part of the heicopter though integral to them. IOW theses are add ons.

yes nexter gun.

Thales LAU FZ 231 POD rocket pod. as to the ATGM components HELINA will feature thoguh Spike would be an option in the interim.

A2A missiles probably MBDA Mistral going by the following picture.

http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/media/4806-4/HAL+LCH+-+Armament+Model.jpg

HAL also may or may not import a few of the sub-systems like Self protection suit , rotor blades , Engine Controls(Probably from France as well) etc.
I have heard stuff about the Avionics and displays being from Israel ,
All i have is this old article for that
http://www.iai.co.il/28973-28093-en/MediaRoom_NewsArchives_2003.aspx

Not sure if this is still the case however. They have been working towards sourcing from Indian suppliers.

there are imported systems which constitute the displays, self protection etc.. but as i said they are integral to a helicopter but are not part of the fundamental part of it.

So far as i care HAL is making use of the Global supply Chain to give our Soldiers the best capabilities.
even Air Marshal P.K.Barbora said "proud Indian".

not every system could be built as it does not make economical or time sense. there will always be systems which would be imported like any systems anywhere. for ex we operate SU 30MKIs but use indian, israeli, french subsytems. what is important is the core fundamental systems of the platform need to be indian because that is what you won't get from the others. engine is fundamental and i agree we need to develop our own in the times to come.

 

[icecoolben]

I have this poster too. One thing I found from them is the only western copter that compares to Apache is the Super cobra being a more agile platform.

Also curiously, LCH trumps th AW-129 mangusta on several parameters, atleast on paper. No wonder thay dropped citing Indian requirements. i hope there would be no need to import more than 22 attack helicopters for a long long long time.

 

[Pandora]

LCH General characteristics Crew: 2 Length: 15.8 m (51ft 8in) Rotor diameter: 13.3 m (43 ft 6 in) Height: 4.7 m (15 ft 4 in) Disc area: 138.9 m² (1472 ft²) Empty weight : 2550 kg (5621 lb) Loaded weight: 4000 kg (8818 lb) Useful load: 2950 kg (6503 lb) Max takeoff weight : 5,700 kg (12125 lb) Powerplant: 2× HAL/ Turbomeca Shakti turboshaft , 1000 kW [14] (1400 shp[15]) each Performance Never exceed speed : 330 km/h (178 knots, 207 mph) Maximum speed : 275 km/h (148 knots, 171 mph) Cruise speed: 260 km/h (140 knots, 161 mph) Range: 700km (297 nm, 342 mi) Service ceiling : 6500 m (21,300 ft) Rate of climb: 12 m/s (2362 ft/min) Disc loading: 39.59 kg/m² (8.23 lb/ft²) Power/mass : 327 W/kg (0.198 hp/lb)
guys just look at total weight and engine power of LCH.
Now look at the specs of eurocopter Tiger General characteristics Crew: 2 (pilot, weapon systems officer) Length: 14.08 m fuselage (46 ft 2 in) Rotor diameter: 13.00 m (42 ft 8 in) Height: 3.83 m (12 ft 7 in) Disc area: 133 m² (1,430 ft²) Empty weight : 3,060 kg (6,750 lb) Max takeoff weight : 6,000 kg (13,000 lb) Internal fuel capacity: 1,080 kg (2,380 lb) Powerplant: 2× MTU Turbomeca Rolls-Royce
MTR390 turboshafts , 873 kW (1,170 shp) each Performance Maximum speed : 290 km/h with mast, 315 km/h without
mast (157 knots, 181 mph
with mast, 170 knots or 196
mph without mast) Range: 800 km (430 nm, 500 mi) combat (with external
tanks in the inboard stations:
1,300km) Service ceiling : 4,000 m (13,000 ft) Rate of climb: 10.7 m/s (2,105 ft/min)

just check out even though Eurocopter Empty weight 510kg more than LCH but it has more faster climbing rate and much faster than LCH WHY ?

 

[bhogta]

just check out even though Eurocopter Empty weight 510kg more than LCH but it has more faster climbing rate and much faster than LCH WHY ?

LCH has lot of drag problem.
If you see carefully you find out that in landing gear part.
We are trying to resolve that issue.

 

[shuvo@y2k10]

hopefully the lch will be a succesful helicopter and its success be taken forward in the medium multirole helicopter that is in developement.iaf and ia should order at least 500-600 of these helicopter.also it can be used by navy,coast guard,bsf,itbp,ssb.crpf etc.it has the potential to be a deadly predator along the lac and on siachen.

 

[bhogta]

hopefully the lch will be a succesful helicopter and its success be taken forward in the medium multirole helicopter that is in developement.iaf and ia should order at least 500-600 of these helicopter.also it can be used by navy,coast guard,bsf,itbp,ssb.crpf etc.it has the potential to be a deadly predator along the lac and on siachen.

500-600 , HAL can't produce that much. We need to automate the manufacture process.

 

[Rahul Singh]

just check out even though Eurocopter Empty weight 510kg more than LCH but it has more faster climbing rate and much faster than LCH WHY ?

What is the source? By the way if Wikipedia is to believed then Tiger is said to have climb rate of 10m/s whereas LCA have 12m/s.

LCH has lot of drag problem.
If you see carefully you find out that in landing gear part.
We are trying to resolve that issue.

Where did you got this news regarding drag? As far as i know LCH's only problem is weight which is being reduced progressively and final product is said to be overweight by only 150 Kg. Added to it, Test pilot Unni Krishnan said "We(HAL) have already increased MTOW". I think increase in MTOW solves much of the problem especially regarding amount of payload at ceiling altitude.

On landing gear part. I guess you are referring to fixed landing gear. Considering myself right, i don't think it is a problem at all, in fact fixed landing gear is a boon and is commonly used in attack helicopters to increase its crashworthiness.

 

[bhogta]

What is the source? By the way if Wikipedia is to believed then Tiger is said to have climb rate of 10m/s whereas LCA have 12m/s.

Where did you got this news regarding drag? As far as i know LCH's only problem is weight which is being reduced progressively and final product is said to be overweight by only 150 Kg. Added to it, Test pilot Unni Krishnan said "We(HAL) have already increased MTOW". I think increase in MTOW solves much of the problem especially regarding amount of payload at ceiling altitude.

On landing gear part. I guess you are referring to fixed landing gear. Considering myself right, i don't think it is a problem at all, in fact fixed landing gear is a boon and is commonly used in attack helicopters to increase its crashworthiness.

People working on LCH told me. That way i got the news. by the way most of the problem got solved.

 

[Pandora]

What is the source? By the way if Wikipedia is to believed then Tiger is said to have climb rate of 10m/s whereas LCA have 12m/s.

Where did you got this news regarding drag? As far as i know LCH's only problem is weight which is being reduced progressively and final product is said to be overweight by only 150 Kg. Added to it, Test pilot Unni Krishnan said "We(HAL) have already increased MTOW". I think increase in MTOW solves much of the problem especially regarding amount of payload at ceiling altitude.

On landing gear part. I guess you are referring to fixed landing gear. Considering myself right, i don't think it is a problem at all, in fact fixed landing gear is a boon and is commonly used in attack helicopters to increase its crashworthiness.

Eurocopter tigre germany
Dimensions: Length 14m Height 3.81m Wingspan 13m Design Mission
Weight 5,400kg Alternate Gross
Weight 6,000kg Weapons: Trigat Missile Range 500m to 5km Maximum Air-to-Air
Missile Range Over 5km autonomously Target
Identification and
Engagement 5km Performance: Hover Out of Ground
Effect Multi-role version - 3,200m
Combat support version -
3,500m Vertical Rate of
Climb Multi-role version - 5.2m/sec
Combat support version -
6.4m/sec Maximum Rate of
Climb Multi-role version - 10.7m/sec
Combat support version -
11.5m/sec Flight Speed, Armed Multi-role version - 145kt
Combat support version - 155kt Cruise Speed 124kt Design Limit Speed Multi-role version - 161kt
Combat support system - 174kt Maximum Range,
Internal Fuel 800km Mission Endurance 2 hours 50 minutes Maximum
Endurance, Internal
Fuel 3 hours 25 minutes Agility 40º angle of yaw after first
second Fuel Capacity: Maximum Internal
Fuel 1,020kg Maximum Internal
and External Fuel 1,575kg ... Nw i get this from airforcetechnology.com . The earlier one was from guncopter.com

 

[Pandora]

btw there some correction here about Tiger powerplant
TURBOSHAFT ENGINES The Tiger HAP / UHT is
powered by two MTU /
Turbomeca / Rolls-Royce
MTR390 turboshaft engines
rated at 960kW (1,285shp).
Self-sealing crashworthy fuel tanks have explosion
suppression and non-return
valves. Tiger HAD has two MTR390-E
enhanced engines rated at
1,094kW (1,467shp).
Tiger HAD IS THE ONLY ONE WHOSE ENGINE IS COMPARABLE TO LCH SHAKTI TURBOMECA.

 

[Pandora]

btw there some correction here about Tiger powerplant
TURBOSHAFT ENGINES The Tiger HAP / UHT is
powered by two MTU /
Turbomeca / Rolls-Royce
MTR390 turboshaft engines
rated at 960kW (1,285shp).
Self-sealing crashworthy fuel tanks have explosion
suppression and non-return
valves. Tiger HAD has two MTR390-E
enhanced engines rated at
1,094kW (1,467shp).
Tiger HAD IS THE ONLY ONE WHOSE ENGINE IS COMPARABLE TO LCH SHAKTI TURBOMECA.

 

[nitesh]

http://livefist.blogspot.com/2011/01/no-to-israel-hal-wants-first-indian.html
No To Israel, HAL Wants First Indian Glass Cockpit On LUH

According to the tender document, "the Main Instrument Panel (image above) incorporates three Smart Multi Function Displays (SMFDs), and standby instruments, clock and a glare shield. The inter-seat console incorporates the avionic and system controls. An Over Head Panel between the pilots incorporates switches, Circuit Breakers, Rotor Brake control unit, cockpit light and two wander lights." The document indicates that the cockpit will be compatible with operation with Gen 3 and Gen 2++ NVGs.

 

[Anshu Attri]

India to showcase attack copter


http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/bangalore/India-to-showcase-attack-copter/articleshow/7322984.cms

BANGALORE: India's first indigenous attack helicopter, the Light Combat Helicopter (LCH) developed by HAL and due for induction into the Indian Air Force by 2012-13, will make its first flight during Aero India from February 9 to 13. Its first test flight was in March last year.

The second and third flights were in April and May 2010 and as of now, over 20 test flights have checked various parameters. These have paved the way for testing with weapons.

While the first prototype could fly at the air show, the second prototype, which will be weaponized, is expected to be unveiled too. Two more prototypes are under construction. HAL commenced work on the LCH in 2006.

The copter is an attack variant of the HAL Dhruv, which has been inducted into the armed forces. The copter was designed using a successful and proven helicopter as the base platform. HAL has tentative orders to deliver 65 LCHs to the IAF and over 100 to the Army.

HAL will also showcase the mock-up of the Light Utility Helicopter (LUH) which is being developed indigenously and the Multirole Transport Aircraft ( MTA) being done in collaboration with Russia.

Two Chetak helicopters are expected to be handed over to a Third World country. While export orders are nothing to write home about, there have been occasional purchases by other countries. Chile signed a contract with HAL for about seven Dhruv ALHs.

Chopper features

* Powered by HAL/Turbomeca Shakti turboshaft engine

* Has helmet-mounted targeting systems, electronic warfare systems and advanced weapons systems

* Has glass cockpit with multifunction displays, a target acquisition and designation system with laser range-finder and laser designator

* Fitted with data link for network-centric operations facilitating transfer of mission data to other airborne platforms and ground stations

* Two pilots sit one behind the other, compared to side-by-side in the Dhruv

Read more: India to showcase attack copter - The Times of India http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...-copter/articleshow/7322984.cms#ixzz1BZsHyDD7

 

[chex3009]

While export orders are nothing to write home about, there have been occasional purchases by other countries. Chile signed a contract with HAL for about seven Dhruv ALHs.

A mere six for the export, can't HAL market its product at international stage competitively when it has good products to offer at comparatively cheaper rates??? Or its the weapons diplomacy where we are lagging???

 

[warriorextreme]

A mere six for the export, can't HAL market its product at international stage competitively when it has good products to offer at comparatively cheaper rates??? Or its the weapons diplomacy where we are lagging???

they will market it but what about production??
we barely meet our own orders on time..why to keep others hanging

 

[bhogta]

^^ you are right here. Production is too slow in HAL.

 

[chex3009]

they will market it but what about production??
we barely meet our own orders on time..why to keep others hanging

Thats the point, production rate can be increased if it has to handle larger orders, orders not exceeding 10 is not worth of investing in production facilities rather carry on at a snail's pace.

Once LCH is inducted that should change IMO.

 

[JBH22]

^^ you are right here. Production is too slow in HAL.

Somewhat said that the other day that all defence production should be undertaken by Private sector except for ballistic missiles i fully agree to that idea. If i'm not mistaken though HAL is still considered as a blue chip company?

The privatisation of DRDO is feasible or is it because govt has injected so much money there that its not possible.

 

[bhogta]

^^ May you people will not agree with me but believe me you can't get efficiency in government company. I am working in defense sector and i can tell you we got no plan for thing. HAL it self give tender outside for other companies. HAL have profit tanks to monopoly nothing else.

 

[SATISH]

No wonder tiger and AW 129 Mangusta recalled from the attack chopper tender.