HAL Prachand - Light Combat Helicopter (LCH)

[Tshering22]

Is it parallel universes

Looks like ACM Chaudhary fell down the stairs today morning.

On a serious note the AoN for 156 Prachand attack helicopters confirms his statements.

 

[Tshering22]

I wonder if the IA shares the same sentiments. There's already an internal war brewing between IA & IAF on imports of the Apache with the IA quite peeved on being looked over in favour of the IAF which got 22 nos.

Since then they've been moving heaven & earth seeking parity only managing 6 nos for their pains. IIRC the total nos to be procured were 38-44 nos, of which we have 28.

The turf war to control helicopters between the IAF and the Army is such a waste of resources. Attack helicopters are anti-armour and close air support specialist platforms. These are supposed to be at the beck and call of the armoured/infantry divisions; not awaiting paperwork and formality to be complete while juggling multiple chains of command.

All attack helicopters, whether Prachands, Mi-35s or AH-64s, should be handed over to the Army Aviation (AA) division by an MoD decision, irrespective of IAF's concurrence. I would go a step further and reiterate that all medium and heavy-lift helicopters should also be transferred to the AA so that there are better synergies within the forces and each service arm has clarity about its role.

IAF will have to focus on fixed-wing combat, strategic airlift and air patrolling duties. Between the Top 5 global military powers, (USA, Russia, China, India and France) we are the only major power that is struggling with these archaic issues. The US and China have completely streamlined their CAS/AAr divisions and the latter is someone we will be facing in the forthcoming war.

 

[indiatester]

I wonder if the IA shares the same sentiments. There's already an internal war brewing between IA & IAF on imports of the Apache with the IA quite peeved on being looked over in favour of the IAF which got 22 nos .

Since then they've been moving heaven & earth seeking parity only managing 6 nos for their pains. IIRC the total nos to be procured were between 38-44 nos of which we have 28 nos.

Drones will alleviate the turf ware for a large extent if embraced by the forces properly.

 

[Tshering22]

Drones will alleviate the turf ware for a large extent if embraced by the forces properly.

Not really. Both IAF and IA are buying similar strike drones. Whether it is Tapas or Archer NG both are armed and both the services want them. Basically they’re duplicating the efforts.

 

[NoobWannaLearn]

Drones will alleviate the turf ware for a large extent if embraced by the forces properly.

Theaterization should have happened that turf war would have ended with that.

 

[NoobWannaLearn]

Not really. Both IAF and IA are buying similar strike drones. Whether it is Tapas or Archer NG both are armed and both the services want them. Basically they’re duplicating the efforts.

Tapas isn't armed

 

[ezsasa]

The turf war to control helicopters between the IAF and the Army is such a waste of resources. Attack helicopters are anti-armour and close air support specialist platforms. These are supposed to be at the beck and call of the armoured/infantry divisions; not awaiting paperwork and formality to be complete while juggling multiple chains of command.

All attack helicopters, whether Prachands, Mi-35s or AH-64s, should be handed over to the Army Aviation (AA) division by an MoD decision, irrespective of IAF's concurrence. I would go a step further and reiterate that all medium and heavy-lift helicopters should also be transferred to the AA so that there are better synergies within the forces and each service arm has clarity about its role.

IAF will have to focus on fixed-wing combat, strategic airlift and air patrolling duties. Between the Top 5 global military powers, (USA, Russia, China, India and France) we are the only major power that is struggling with these archaic issues. The US and China have completely streamlined their CAS/AAr divisions and the latter is someone we will be facing in the forthcoming war.

physical assets especially for combat hepters is only one part of the story, there are other considerations too.

even if IA is handed over full control of attack hepter assets, with their existing inventory procurement backlogs, will they be able to keep up with tech upgrades or new weapon assessments in time or will they get second priority within IA. the question arises whether IA has the capacity on it's own to absorb and develop attack hepter tactics. for now IA seems to be handling logistics hepters on their own.

we have case of TAPAS, which is primarily IA's baby. from an outsider's perspective IA doesn't seem to be tech savvy.

for now it seems to be the case that there are things that IA needs to sort out internally before asking for ownership of more assets. IA needs to build internal capacity end-to-end before asking total ownership of new aviation assets.

 

[Blademaster]

physical assets especially for combat hepters is only one part of the story, there are other considerations too.

even if IA is handed over full control of attack hepter assets, with their existing inventory procurement backlogs, will they be able to keep up with tech upgrades or new weapon assessments in time or will they get second priority within IA. the question arises whether IA has the capacity on it's own to absorb and develop attack hepter tactics. for now IA seems to be handling logistics hepters on their own.

we have case of TAPAS, which is primarily IA's baby. from an outsider's perspective IA doesn't seem to be tech savvy.

for now it seems to be the case that there are things that IA needs to sort out internally before asking for ownership of more assets. IA needs to build internal capacity end-to-end before asking total ownership of new aviation assets.

That is because when IA tried to build up their own tech knowledge base, the IAF would step in and say why is that necessary it should be us and IA is just wasting money and IAF would stymie IA's efforts to master the knowledge of operating those assets.

 

[ezsasa]

That is because when IA tried to build up their own tech knowledge base, the IAF would step in and say why is that necessary it should be us and IA is just wasting money and IAF would stymie IA's efforts to master the knowledge of operating those assets.

yes, this is what we are told. it would have been more believable if IA's capability in transitioning tech related to their core domain weapon systems had been an a story of efficiency and forward looking one, this is not the impression we get.

procurement process of their core domain like assault rifles, arty, tanks etc do not scream "i am at top of my game" from a outsider's perspective.

if IA did have a compelling counter argument to make their case, we would have heard about it.

 

[Blademaster]

yes, this is what we are told. it would have been more believable if IA's capability in transitioning tech related to their core domain weapon systems had been an a story of efficiency and forward looking one, this is not the impression we get.

procurement process of their core domain like assault rifles, arty, tanks etc do not scream "i am at top of my game" from a outsider's perspective.

if IA did have a compelling counter argument to make their case, we would have heard about it.

IAF has its own issues as well. Brahmos anyone? Doesn't mean that IA shouldn't be prevented from operating those helo assets which they are the primary user.

 

[FalconSlayers]

 

[Satish Sharma]

Hey guys I have some questions,,,
Whose , MAWS, flares & chaffs Dispenser , radar warning receivers, laser warning receivers. Do we use in LCH prachand. I hear some systems are indigenously developed by drdo to replace this foreign imported.
And most importantly what about HTSE-1200 , what is it's status right now only thing we know is it's 1600hp , right now we use Shakti engine (French licenced manufacturing) which makes from 1284-1432hp depending on hal's Helicopter.. will htse replace Shakti engine which makes even more hp. I hear its more efficient and more maintainance friendly than this one.. is it going to be used in those 156 LCH orders & also those upcoming orders of LUH...
Htse hasn't even taken off yet.. or is it to just keep a bargaining weight again French so they don't increase price of engine

 

[johnj]

Hey guys I have some questions,,,
Whose , MAWS, flares & chaffs Dispenser , radar warning receivers, laser warning receivers. Do we use in LCH prachand. I hear some systems are indigenously developed by drdo to replace this foreign imported.
And most importantly what about HTSE-1200 , what is it's status right now only thing we know is it's 1600hp , right now we use Shakti engine (French licenced manufacturing) which makes from 1284-1432hp depending on hal's Helicopter.. will htse replace Shakti engine which makes even more hp. I hear its more efficient and more maintainance friendly than this one.. is it going to be used in those 156 LCH orders & also those upcoming orders of LUH...
Htse hasn't even taken off yet.. or is it to just keep a bargaining weight again French so they don't increase price of engine

Desi flares & chaffs Dispense
MAWS radar warning receivers, laser warning receivers = None for LCH and SAAB for rudra

 

[Satish Sharma]

View attachment 234637
Desi flares & chaffs Dispense
MAWS radar warning receivers, laser warning receivers = None for LCH and SAAB for rudra

View attachment 234635

Look from next year lch delivery will begin they have not even done a single test flight..
The engine might have performed very well. But there are no signs nothing that it will be used in lch or another aircraft..
I found out currently MAWS is used of Saab and radar warning receivers of saab's south African division.
Flares and chaffs are indigeneous.
However BEL has developed MAWS which is UV technology based. Which is also laser warning receivers.. for LCH prachand

 

[Satish Sharma]

On 17 January 2019, LCH completed weapons trials with the successful firing of Mistral-2 air-to-air missile at a flying target.[43][44] In the same day, HAL announced that the LCH is ready for operational service after completing the required weapon integration tests.[45]

On 21 February 2019, Thales announced that it was awarded a contract to supply 135 70 mm rockets for 15 LCHs alongside 18 Dhruvs.[46]

If it was all developed in Jan 2019 why it took us almost 5 years to order ?? I think there are serious lobbies in beurocracy..

 

[Corvus Splendens]

View attachment 234637
Desi flares & chaffs Dispense
MAWS radar warning receivers, laser warning receivers = None for LCH and SAAB for rudra

View attachment 234635

 

[Chinmoy]

On 17 January 2019, LCH completed weapons trials with the successful firing of Mistral-2 air-to-air missile at a flying target.[43][44] In the same day, HAL announced that the LCH is ready for operational service after completing the required weapon integration tests.[45]

On 21 February 2019, Thales announced that it was awarded a contract to supply 135 70 mm rockets for 15 LCHs alongside 18 Dhruvs.[46]

If it was all developed in Jan 2019 why it took us almost 5 years to order ?? I think there are serious lobbies in beurocracy..

And who said all these?

BTW order for these 15 copters were placed in 2022 which is acceptable in all senses.

 

[Satish Sharma]

And who said all these?

BTW order for these 15 copters were placed in 2022 which is acceptable in all senses.

So lch was not ready before 2022.?
Anyways I read it on wiki. But do t you think we really ordered it a bit late. Despite it was ready.

 

[Chinmoy]

So lch was not ready before 2022.?
Anyways I read it on wiki. But do t you think we really ordered it a bit late. Despite it was ready.

From the same article which you have quoted it,

The attempt was claimed as the first time in the country a helicopter carried out air-to-air missile engagement by the defence behemoth's chairman and managing director R. Madhavan.

https://www.ndtv.com/india-news/hin...at-helicopter-completes-weapon-trails-1979103

So the 2019 test was the first test. It means after that it has undergone multiple tests for minimum 2 years after which AON has been moved. That's why I asked as per whom it was ready for operational service?

 

[Corvus Splendens]

Nigerians went for A129 Mangustas from Turkey.