HAL HJT-36 Sitara

[karna]

Friends. Can the Kavery engine in its current form be used to power sitara? Being a trainer kaveri may be sufficient for it. I am a novice in the field so please forgive if i am talking nonsense.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

No, The Sitara engine is very small and design for low fuel consumption and thrust enough for maneuvers in training ...

Kaveri is design as per Tejas size Aircraft its a big engine compare to Sitara`s ..

Friends. Can the Kavery engine in its current form be used to power sitara? Being a trainer kaveri may be sufficient for it. I am a novice in the field so please forgive if i am talking nonsense.

 

[Twinblade]

Quite frankly there is no Major difference between IJT and AJT ..

Just names, The category are made for imports .

Not really. Although an intermediate jet trainer overlaps in capability with a more capable basic trainer (PC-21, Super Tucano, KA-1, Texan II) and advanced trainers (BAE Hawk, M-346, Yak-130), they are in a category of their own. It depends on what kind of training the airforce is looking for, several airforces do the intermediate training on turboprops. Comparable to HJT-36 is Alenia M-345 HET and Alenia S-211.

 

[p2prada]

@venkat

Should be interesting times for you guys there.

 

[he-man]

looks interesting but just remember

HAL is a pathological liar,so before we celebrate we need to make sure it gets inducted.

call me anything but i don't trust these guys at all

 

[Twinblade]

HAL is a pathological liar,so before we celebrate we need to make sure it gets inducted.

call me anything but i don't trust these guys at all

Stick to the topic. No one's interested in your personal sob story with HAL.

 

[he-man]

Stick to the topic. No one's interested in your personal sob story with HAL.

as i keep telling ppl

if u cannot fathom critisism leave the thread and mediate or go to mountains and become a sadhu.

if u don't like a post,don't quote it to express ur feelings.just do something better

 

[Kunal Biswas]

You dont understand the roles they are preforming, The category is not required when one of any two category exists, It nullify the other one ..

The training are same which are done on both aircraft, As of now the exsistance of AJT is to have first hand experience of operating Jet and conduction similar maneuvers as learned in BTA, Now as IJT came into exsistance is it is doing same function, Hence the difference between AJT and IJT are now very little, Since that is the case the the category of AJT is same of IJT ..

Hence the AJT catagory is not needed ..

Not really. Although an intermediate jet trainer overlaps in capability with a more capable basic trainer (PC-21, Super Tucano, KA-1, Texan II) and advanced trainers (BAE Hawk, M-346, Yak-130), they are in a category of their own. It depends on what kind of training the airforce is looking for, several airforces do the intermediate training on turboprops. Comparable to HJT-36 is Alenia M-345 HET and Alenia S-211.

 

[venkat]

looks interesting but just remember

HAL is a pathological liar,so before we celebrate we need to make sure it gets inducted.

call me anything but i don't trust these guys at all

Dear Gentleman/woman . if you come to know how your /our friends are sodomizing(apologies for using bad words) us by selling crap to us ,you will take back your statement !!!!

 

[venkat]

@venkat

Should be interesting times for you guys there.

greetings!!! I am also clueless even though we are supplying somethings. I am few hundred miles away from the actual scenario!!! spin trials are pending i presume!!!

 

[Twinblade]

You dont understand the roles they are preforming, The category is not required when one of any two category exists, It nullify the other one ..

The training are same which are done on both aircraft, As of now the exsistance of AJT is to have first hand experience of operating Jet and conduction similar maneuvers as learned in BTA, Now as IJT came into exsistance is it is doing same function, Hence the difference between AJT and IJT are now very little, Since that is the case the the category of AJT is same of IJT ..

Hence the AJT catagory is not needed ..

IJT cannot replace AJT. There is some overlap as far as handling a jet is concerned, but AJT is a twin engined design with almost twice the thrust of IJT. It can undertake much complex maneuvers and can simulate radars and weapons systems. AJT can simulate the handling characteristics during transonic flight as well, which the IJT cannot. As I said, IJT's capabilities overlap with basic trainer and AJT, but it is not a replacement.

 

[he-man]

Dear Gentleman/woman . if you come to know how your /our friends are sodomizing(apologies for using bad words) us by selling crap to us ,you will take back your statement !!!!

sorry to say but that dosen't even make sense

 

[Kunal Biswas]

@Twinblade, If you have opportunity to talk with some official in IAF ( Fighter Pilot ), Do asked abt the kind of manuvers and training they used to get in Kirans and HTT-32, And ask what kind of training and purpose such category has before you quote me ..

I have asked these questions years back & hence my following replies were ..

IJT cannot replace AJT. There is some overlap as far as handling a jet is concerned, but AJT is a twin engined design with almost twice the thrust of IJT. It can undertake much complex maneuvers and can simulate radars and weapons systems. AJT can simulate the handling characteristics during transonic flight as well, which the IJT cannot. As I said, IJT's capabilities overlap with basic trainer and AJT, but it is not a replacement.

 

[Twinblade]

@Twinblade, If you have opportunity to talk with some official in IAF ( Fighter Pilot ), Do asked abt the kind of manuvers and training they used to get in Kirans and HTT-32, And ask what kind of training and purpose such category has before you quote me ..

I have asked these questions years back & hence my following replies were ..

And due to incomplete training they were being made to fly MiG-21. One of the major reasons for MiG-21 crashes was that the new pilots were unaccustomed to high landing and take off speeds and were unable to understand the plane's behaviour in trans sonic regions. IJT cannot replicate those conditions, that is for an advanced jet trainer to do. Most airforces consider an intermediate jet trainer unnecessary. USAF and USN have completely replaced T-37 intermediate trainer with Texan II, which is also used for their basic training. If IJT had been delayed further, the IAF too would have used more PC-7 for intermediate training and the cadets would not have missed a lot. Also. if an advanced trainer is so unnecessary then why was HAL proposing HJT-39 CAT ?

 

[p2prada]

greetings!!! I am also clueless even though we are supplying somethings. I am few hundred miles away from the actual scenario!!! spin trials are pending i presume!!!

Kerala?

 

[Kunal Biswas]

I will only answer two things in your post >

1. Yes and they still do, Not because they did not have AJT back then but because most squadron in India are MIG-21 squadrons hence after getting trained on Kirans now AJT these greens are trained on MIG-21, JAG, Mirage trainers from there respective squadrons, It is you wrong assumption that AJT replicate those conditions, Nor IJT or AJT can replicate these conditions..

2. IJT and AJT have almost no difference when training on them, There preform ace is also more or less same for instructors and their students as for HJT-39 CAT is design as per present IAF requirement, HJT-36 was design as per IAF requirement of past,though it may already dropped as more HAWKs were imported ..

And due to incomplete training they were being made to fly MiG-21.

if an advanced trainer is so unnecessary then why was HAL proposing HJT-39 CAT ?

 

[vram]

as i keep telling ppl

if u cannot fathom critisism leave the thread and mediate or go to mountains and become a sadhu.

if u don't like a post,don't quote it to express ur feelings.just do something better

Calling an organization made up of more that 10000 people as a pathological liar is not really going anywhere. Also I second what twinblade said, if you have any particular concern regarding the Sitara's design engine etc.. or if you have any sources that are presenting a different date for IOC than what has been given by the journalist then please present the same. Else what you are doing is nothing but slander without any basis in facts and NOT criticism...

 

[kseeker]

NEW DELHI: Proper training of rookie IAF pilots remains under a cloud with Hindustan Aeronautics (HAL) still struggling to deliver its intermediate jet trainer (IJT), in the making for the last 14 years but yet to become fully-operational.

While HAL has now promised the initial operational clearance (IOC) for its Sitara IJT by June 2014, IAF remains skeptical given the trainer has missed deadlines at least five times since 2007.

Pilots are trained in three stages, first on a basic trainer aircraft (BTA), then on a IJT and finally on an advanced jet trainer (AJT) to learn the complex and inherently-dangerous art of combat flying.

IAF has for long been saddled with unsafe, obsolete training aircraft like HPT-32 and Kirans, with new pilots often being unable to handle highly-demanding fighters like MiG-21s. Almost 40% of the 1,050 crashes recorded by IAF since 1970, for instance, have been attributed to "human error (aircrew)".

IAF may be now breathing easy on the basic and advanced training fronts, with the ongoing induction of Swiss Pilatus PC-7 BTA and British Hawk AJTs, but the intermediate one remains a major problem.

For one, Sitara cannot as yet "stall and spin", which is a critical manoeuvre to train young cadets on how to handle emergencies, hold their nerve and retrieve their planes from a spin. HAL is now closer to resolving this with help of experts from BAE Systems, said sources.

But another major issue is the IJT's Russian AL-55I engine, which initially had a "time between overhauls (TBO)" of only 100 hours. After demanding more money, over the initial $350 million contract, Russia is now extending the TBO to 300 hours.

But IAF wants the TBO be about 1,200 hours. "A trainer aircraft flies six to eight sorties daily, clocking around 10 hours. If the TBO is just 100 hours, the engine will have to be replaced every 10 days. This will require more engines and overhauls, apart from the planes sitting on ground for longer periods," said a source.

Given all this, IAF has been forced to extend the operational life of its aging Kirans by another four years. It has refused to give more money to HAL for the IJT, over the Rs 4,500 crore already shelled out, till Sitara reaches "some verifiable milestone".

In all, with 240 new trainee pilots every year, IAF requires 181 BTA, 85 IJTs and 106 AJTs. India has already inducted a bulk of the 123 Hawk AJTs ordered for its air force and naval pilots in an overall project worth around Rs 16,000 crore.

The BTA issue, in turn, has been somewhat resolved with the Rs 2,896 crore deal for 75 Swiss Pilatus inked in May 2012. But IAF and HAL are still locked in a tussle over the additional requirement of 106 BTA, with the former asking the PSU to make the Swiss trainer under licensed production. But HAL is pushing its own under-development HTT-40 as the BTA. IAF contends it wants the IJT, and not two types of BTA.

14 years on, IAF jet trainer still not ready - The Times of India

 

[he-man]

sorry to say but al-55 is a damn ******engine.
we should have opted for something else instead.


but it dosen't matter,looking at the pace of ijt,it will never be inducted although i do hope i am wrong.

 

[LTE-TDD]

Time is always at India side, why worry?