Failed Terrorist State of Pakistan: Idiotic Musings

[Paritosh]

Darul Uloom Haqqania: The ‘University of Jihad’ in Pakistan that routinely sends ‘graduates’ to fill the ranks of Taliban and other terror orgs

The sprawling campus of Darul Uloom Haqqania is nestled in Pakistan's Akora Khattak, roughly about 60 km (35 miles) east of Peshawar, and is home to about 4,000 jihadis, who are provided free clothing, shelter, and food.

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Across the world, Pakistan holds the distinction of being identified as the “pernicious cradle of terrorism”. It has constantly and unapologetically supported Islamic terrorism, most notably against India, Afghanistan, the United States, and many other Western nations. Terror organizations like Al Qaeda, Lashkar-e-Taiba, Taliban, and several other outfits have free rein in Pakistan. In fact, they have mushroomed and enjoyed unfettered state support in Pakistan.

Pakistan has also emerged as a safe haven for the terrorists where the government, both political and Pakistani Army, goes to great lengths, to hide, safeguard and protect terrorists that serve to fulfill their covert propaganda. As a result, it has been on FATF grey list since June 2018 for providing a conducive environment for the terrorists and terror outfits to operate and proliferate on its soil.

But what has fuelled this transformation of an Islamic nation to a terror factory? What has made Pakistan the sought-after destination for all the terrorists in the world, given that even Al Qaeda terrorist and the mastermind of the US 9/11 attacks Osama Bin Laden was found hiding in Pakistan’s Abbottabad? Where do terror organizations that operate in Pakistan draw fresh blood from? How do they seamlessly transition their leadership without undergoing any visible hiccups?

Darul Uloom Haqqania- The “University of Jihad”

A news report by the AFP recently attempted to answer these questions. The report centered around an influential Islamic seminary, that is infamous for constantly churning out terrorists that have gone on to become linchpins of various terror outfits active in the country. Darul Uloom Haqqania, the Islamic seminary dubbed as the “university of jihad” is the organization that has played a central role in sowing seeds of Islamic jihad among impressionable individuals and provided terror organizations with much-needed manpower.

In the process, the Darul Uloom Haqqania has provided the who’s who of Taliban’s top leadership, including the ones who are striking a hard bargain with the Kabul government to end the protracted war that has gone on for about 20 years now. The budding jihadis, who are part of the seminary are not only proud of their alma maters but they also draw their inspiration to continue their religious fight against what they perceive as the enemies of Islam.

Darul Uloom is an alma mater to several current and past Talibani leaders

More here....

Know the Darul Uloom Haqqania: The 'University of Jihad' in Pakistan

Darul Uloom Haqqania has been the terror factory of Pakistan, indoctrinating and radicalising youth into extremist ideologies. | OpIndia News

www.opindia.com

Apart from the above, there are 30,000 madrassas in Pak. Even if one terrorist is produced by each madrassa every year (which is a very conservative estimate), the Paki Establishment will have an army of 30,000 terrorists ready to die for Allah/Mohammed! So you know what we're up against in Kashmir!

Everytime there is a terror attack in the UK that has its origins in Pakistan, it feels like karma hitting the Brits back for partitioning India. Had the division not happened, the extent of radicalisation would have been a lot more muted if not completely absent, owing to enforced secular values onto the population of what now is Pakistan.

 

[Paritosh]

Nahi bhai, more palghar and Kamlesh tiwari would had happened.
Problem is not with personal man, problem is with type of education they are getting on infidels.
Your question of failed nation, nah, according to me it is not, for that their FAUJI FOUNDATION has to die.

I am speculating but my hypothesis is based on a higher spend on modern education in lieu of the reduction in military spend (no Pakistan would have lead to a reduced military budget, which could have enabled a much larger investment in other sectors). An educated muslim is relatively less likely to radicalise, 'relatively' being the operative word here.
About Pakistan being a failed nation, I don't think they are a failed nation in 2020. As far as their military goes, it acts as this massive shackle that sucks all avenues for human resource development. Their excessively inflated military is an eternal debt for the Pakistani people (as is ours but we can afford it a little better). Hence, it is because of their military that they will always have the threat of failing as a state handing over their heads.

 

[Srinivas_K]

I am speculating but my hypothesis is based on a higher spend on modern education in lieu of the reduction in military spend (no Pakistan would have lead to a reduced military budget, which could have enabled a much larger investment in other sectors). An educated muslim is relatively less likely to radicalise, 'relatively' being the operative word here.
About Pakistan being a failed nation, I don't think they are a failed nation in 2020. As far as their military goes, it acts as this massive shackle that sucks all avenues for human resource development. Their excessively inflated military is an eternal debt for the Pakistani people (as is ours but we can afford it a little better). Hence, it is because of their military that they will always have the threat of failing as a state handing over their heads.

Education and radicalism are two different things, did you hear Munavar Rana a poet called for beheading for insulting their prophet?

 

[Akula]

Education and radicalism are two different things, did you hear Munavar Rana a poet called for beheading for insulting their prophet?

Anand Ranganathan has a perfect answer for your question. Please watch the first video.

 

[IndianSpiderman]

1. You are right about CPEC, it is too massive to be done right. The biggest advantage that has been realised till now is the inclusion of Chinese assets that exist somewhere in the BOT value chain. This has ensured that India will have to consider a Chinese response, even while focusing on areas deep within Pakistan/PoK.

2. Their HDI rating is bad, but is not too far behind our own. COVID-19 impact on the Pak economy isn't as bad as what we've had to suffer. (https://www.imf.org/external/datamapper/profile/PAK and https://www.imf.org/external/datamapper/profile/IND)

I think that over time, the labelling of Pakistan as a failed state has lost it's relevance. Our performance has been sub-optimal as well.

1. I don't see what bearing the scale of the project has on its success. Considering it's the only investment happening there, it's massively inadequate for a country of 200 million+.

Have been hearing Pakis gloat about CPEC for a decade now. Always had a laugh about it, since I understand how China works. As expected, Pakistan's economy has gone from bad to worse since then.

2. They aren't in any way comparable. Their HDI is lower than that of our most backward state.

Even if we are (for whatever reason) to overlook the short term nature of the contraction, it's apparent now that recovery will be faster than most anticipated.

How exactly has India's performance been sub-optimal? Bar the last year-and-a-half, its growth has been far outstripping most of the rest of the world. India took a short breather to set long term structural issues right, something more countries ought to try.

A country which is the hub of global terrorism (and a "victim" of the same), and a near pariah state is fit to be labeled a failed state.

 

[Nationalist Manasvi Papa]

....

 

[FalconZero]

1. I don't see what bearing the scale of the project has on its success. Considering it's the only investment happening there, it's massively inadequate for a country of 200 million+.

Have been hearing Pakis gloat about CPEC for a decade now. Always had a laugh about it, since I understand how China works. As expected, Pakistan's economy has gone from bad to worse since then.

2. They aren't in any way comparable. Their HDI is lower than that of our most backward state.

Even if we are (for whatever reason) to overlook the short term nature of the contraction, it's apparent now that recovery will be faster than most anticipated.

How exactly has India's performance been sub-optimal? Bar the last year-and-a-half, its growth has been far outstripping most of the rest of the world. India took a short breather to set long term structural issues right, something more countries ought to try.

A country which is the hub of global terrorism (and a "victim" of the same), and a near pariah state is fit to be labeled a failed state.

You are wasting time trying to use logic with someone who acts/asks such question. This is what a bait comment looks like, either ignore them so don't take the bait or ridicule them, that's the only thing that works.

 

[Rassil Krishnan]

Nahi bhai, more palghar and Kamlesh tiwari would had happened.
Problem is not with personal man, problem is with type of education they are getting on infidels.
Your question of failed nation, nah, according to me it is not, for that their FAUJI FOUNDATION has to die.

the people and the ideology of pakistan(islam) ,both are a problem,the human resources available to india are many times better than pakistan in all relevant respects due to its core being influenced by hinduism.

 

[Paritosh]

You are wasting time trying to use logic with someone who acts/asks such question. This is what a bait comment looks like, either ignore them so don't take the bait or ridicule them, that's the only thing that works.

You dove straight in to answer a question I had raised on the forum with a personal attack and insinuations, and now you are attempting to hijack a discourse that has got nothing to do with you.
You are quite negative and add zero value to a discussion.

 

[IndianSpiderman]

You are wasting time trying to use logic with someone who acts/asks such question. This is what a bait comment looks like, either ignore them so don't take the bait or ridicule them, that's the only thing that works.

I've seen such arguments made in all seriousness by well-intentioned people I know. So, I'm giving him the benefit of doubt. Perhaps he's just trying to play devil's advocate.

 

[Killbot]

Awww, abdul from Islamabad using VPN is butthurt.

Whoa you became a senpai....

 

[Paritosh]

1. I don't see what bearing the scale of the project has on its success. Considering it's the only investment happening there, it's massively inadequate for a country of 200 million+.

Have been hearing Pakis gloat about CPEC for a decade now. Always had a laugh about it, since I understand how China works. As expected, Pakistan's economy has gone from bad to worse since then.

2. They aren't in any way comparable. Their HDI is lower than that of our most backward state.

Even if we are (for whatever reason) to overlook the short term nature of the contraction, it's apparent now that recovery will be faster than most anticipated.

How exactly has India's performance been sub-optimal? Bar the last year-and-a-half, its growth has been far outstripping most of the rest of the world. India took a short breather to set long term structural issues right, something more countries ought to try.

A country which is the hub of global terrorism (and a "victim" of the same), and a near pariah state is fit to be labeled a failed state.

Like I said, CPEC's promises are yet to be realised (employment, energy security, GDP uplift, etc.) but the only proven 'value' that CPEC has landed for Pakistan is China owning assets in PoK, which make it harder for us to plan direct military action.
Our HDI is higher than their's, but my point was around our relative gap not being large enough for us to label them as "Failed".
Even before COVID-19 in the post-demonitisation climate, the growth rate contraction had already started showing up. You are right, the recovery should be "v" shaped, but I am hoping that we could continue accelerating our growth rate to a sustainable 10% mark for the next decade. That's when we'd have enough economic wherewithall to drive Pakistan to bankruptcy, by constantly raising the qualitative edge in our combat capabilities.
Pakistan has the twin problems of inflated armed forces as well as non-state radicals, this has a double -whammy effect, but I don't think they have failed yet. Their economic growth may pick-up if most credit ratings don't miss their mark.

 

[FalconZero]

I've seen such arguments made in all seriousness by well-intentioned people I know. So, I'm giving him the benefit of doubt. Perhaps he's just trying to play devil's advocate.

Well in that case good luck with that, then.

 

[Paritosh]

Education and radicalism are two different things, did you hear Munavar Rana a poet called for beheading for insulting their prophet?

Educated people also can be radicalised. Osama, an engineer is a prime example. However, the chances of being radicalised reduce. Muslims in India and Indonesia are good examples of how the degree of radicalisation is based on a lot of environmental factors.

 

[FalconZero]

You dove straight in to answer a question I had raised on the forum with a personal attack and insinuations, and now you are attempting to hijack a discourse that has got nothing to do with you.
You are quite negative and add zero value to a discussion.

Sorry, it's just that i am least interested in answering bait questions in a thread about a topic which doesn't need any introduction.

I don't know if you have noticed this or not, but a vast majority of our fellow countrymen are not willing to be objective when assessing geopolitics. There is an unhealthy amount of jingoism and self-praise that clouds an honest reading of a situation. I wish we had more patriots who were critical and who played the role of being the Devil's advocate than chest-thumping nationalists.

[Redacted] you don't live in this country, you have 23 messages and 4 likes with bait questions, that's the atmost attention that you will get.
Do you have any data to back that most of the Indians don't carry out objective analysis of geopolitics? What's your proof for what is 'unhealthy amount' of jingoism and 'self-praise'? Do you even know the thread you are talking nonsense in? Also, yes we already have enough 'devil's advocate' here so you can shun this logic of yours.
Answer these then we will move forward.

 

[Rassil Krishnan]

the people and the ideology of pakistan(islam) ,both are a problem,the human resources available to india are many times better than pakistan in all relevant respects due to its core being influenced by hinduism.

i also think the blaming of military in pakistan is also to save the face of islam as then people will inevitably point at the only other significant influence and in the long term the real ruling ideology of pak.

a military has a limit to its own radicalization after which it will cease to function like a normal military even by pakistan standards.

islam has no limits like that and will unravel any blockages to its purest form of practice which is slowly happening since pakistan's formation .the military just promoted islamization people to give it an assymetric advantage but i think it did not realize that it has more pull behind it from the people of pakistan than itself.

in future i think you will see small scale to large clashes btw islam and the military as even the military does not want to go full islami state and only planned to initially support islamization thinking it can put a leash on it and use it to complement its strength not realizing once unshackled it can eventually overpower it.

in the coming years there will be many fault lines btw mullah and miltary that we must exploit and also we must try to not present ourselves as the common enemy to promote infighting in them.

 

[Paritosh]

Sorry, it's just that i am least interested in answering bait questions in a thread about a topic which doesn't need any introduction.

What am I quoting then?

Chu, you don't live in this country, you have 23 messages and 4 likes with bait questions, that's the atmost attention that you will get.

Is getting likes and posting a certain number of messages the metrics you use to evaluate your existence?
Take a deep breath mate.

Do you have any data to back that most of the Indians don't carry out objective analysis of geopolitics? What's your proof for what is 'unhealthy amount' of jingoism and 'self-praise'? Do you even know the thread you are talking nonsense in? Also, yes we already have enough 'devil's advocate' here so you can shun this logic of yours.
Answer these then we will move forward.

I don't need statistical significance to hold an opinion. You are a prime example of the archetype that is quick to jump to conclusions only to draw a blank. You made a statement when you labelled me an "Abdul", did you feel the need to provide proof to back your claims?
You seem to be incapable of moving forward or refraining from personal attacks, so no point in making rhetorical statements on how to carry this conversation forward.

 

[Villager]

Quick question, how exactly are we grading Pakistan as a failed nation in 2020? Is it based on some quantifiable index or is this thread a catch all for venting frustration?

Failed nation maybe incorrect description as it is yet to become a nation in true sense. It's been 70+ years and they have still not managed to establish civillian supremacy, they still live in a fantasy world hiding their true identity, their identity crisis isn't going away. They don't know why they exist, what's the purpose of its existence as a state, thanks to Congress-Jinnah. Those who do know who they are won't dare to speak openly to avoid drawing ire of their military diktats.

 

[Rassil Krishnan]

for the commentor trying to say that pakistan may pickup in growth you dont how F**ked they are in the future.

their resources such as water,etc are going to be in critical condition in the future.add to that a pop of 200-300 mil muzzies as the core who are fundamentalists many of whom are not ready for the economy of the future involving tech,etc.you think they will be saved becuz china offered them a strings attached loan .much smaller countries got devastated ,forget about being uplifted due to them and they did not have the issues of terrorism,etc.

only way their issues can be slightly improved if the chinese literally send millions of chinese to occupy pakistan and run it like a colony.

get this in your head,pakistan's problem is pakistanis(the average guy on the ground) and islam - dont divert it to the military and the politicians.i know it is wierd becuz the narrative for every indian(including rw indians) is that pak would be so prosperous if only the military and stupid politicians had not intervened in the politics.in most other states,this would have been true.but do you stop to think maybe it is not the military or politician controlling the people but the meme of islam and the history it has with india acting through the people to control the actions of the military and politicians.because everywhere the average paki is let go and we blame the leaders when they might be the helpless ones.they might have had a say before in decades past but now it is completely on rails.

but the combination of cringeworthy idiotic average pakistani (and the future pakistani) and the ideology of islam would lead to a worse running country.ironically,i can see the military being a bastion of relative secularism in the future due to it very nature.

 

[FalconZero]

Here's a data from Fragile state index : pakistanis are slightly better than afghanistan. This index has valid criticism since it's very west centric but just to give an idea, i am bored and don't give a f**k so putting it out there. Coming to one of the characteristics of failed state is a governments which fails to have authority, can equate with pakistan's government, none of the governments in pakistan has completed their full terms, read about their total number of coups, constitution changes, military coups, military censorship in the media, chinese controlling pakistani land, debt traps, increase in regional instability within that country, opposition being under silence by the military, controlled opposition, I can go on, few references :

No One Has Ever Completed a Term as Pakistan’s PM

A checkered democratic history, from 1947 to the present day.

foreignpolicy.com

Pakistan army to probe opposition allegation of pressuring police

The arrest of Nawaz Sharif’s son-in-law Muhammad Safdar earlier this week turns into a major political controversy.

www.aljazeera.com

Pakistan Army emotionally blackmails its population with its own idea of India

In Pakistan, the prosperity of the army is paramount and the people are working to secure its future.

theprint.in

China is dragging Pakistan in a debt-trap

'Pakistan's fortunes are linked to China's growth'. We are not saying this, Pakistan Prime Minister Imran Khan said this earlier this year. But history has shown that depending on China is not prudent. Pakistan is learning this, but a bit late. China wants a higher interest rate on its loans. It...

www.wionews.com

Pakistan’s Government and Military Are Crushing Dissent on Social Media

New social media regulations are just the latest tool used to criminalize dissenting online speech.

thediplomat.com

And trusting any data from Pakistan about likes of covid is insanely ignorant to put it mildly, anyway, these are from few quick searches, i have read few of the articles rest are to give a generic idea.