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HDI:
India: 0.647
Pakistan: 0.560
Inequality-adjusted HDI:
India: 0.538
Pakistan: 0.386
Usually this much of gap is there between two countries of entirely different classes and living standards.
Failed Terrorist State of Pakistan: Idiotic Musings
- Thread starter A.V.
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India: 0.647
Pakistan: 0.560
Inequality-adjusted HDI:
India: 0.538
Pakistan: 0.386
Usually this much of gap is there between two countries of entirely different classes and living standards.
FalconZero
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> is getting likes and posting
No, but (less messages ---> less history) + bait question + someone pretending to be from Australia asking a generic question is what makes it questionable dum dum.
>I don't need statistical significance to hold an opinion.
Kek, got you, in case you haven't realised that's the point here...you asked data for a generic statement and when got replies in similar manner you changed your tone, this is what we call irony.
> You are a prime example of the archetype that is quick to jump to conclusions only to draw a blank. You made a statement when you labelled me an "Abdul", did you feel the need to provide proof to back your claims?
Yes, why should I not believe that you are not an abdul larping as an Indian form Australia or proly using a VPN? but that was an intentional cheap shot which works always with p*kis, based on past history.
>You seem to be incapable of moving forward or refraining from personal attacks, so no point in making rhetorical statements on how to carry this conversation forward.
Cry me a river, point was to show the absurdity of your question which either you are too naive to realise or too ret*rded. Let me state what happened, a new account comes in here, with little history makes a generic comment and wants proof for something which is obvious and to put it precisely unnecessary since most of us use it in a sarcastic manner.
The rhetorical statement was made by you in a thread which is more light-hearted than you think, so here you are projecting.
Now when you are done crying, I expect you to prove your points with numeric hardcoded facts or stfu.
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Give me the source of this info.
"pretending to be from Australia"? What made you feel that I am pretending? My first response was intended to mitigate any misgivings you may have about my intentions, where I mentioned that I have no qualms in 'proving' who I am.
A long time ago before this forum was formed, Yusuf and co were memebers of Def.pk. I and these other members were the few Indians who were giving it back to the Pakistanis in 2008 on Def.pk. I joined DFI in those days and then went dormant because of other things happening in life. Hence the few messages and the lack of an "audit trail" for you.
There is no irony here. There are indices that are used to assess the performance of a nation, which a lot of other members have been quoting (if I am not mistaken, your last post also had a lot of good data sources). I was asking for the methodology and the data that is being used to call Pakistan a failed state.
My opinion on the quality and the degree of rationality in the geopolitical assessment done by Indians on internet forums is based on my first-hand experiences, for which I don't maintain a verifiable log. Hence, while the former is verifiable and data-led, the latter is an opinion and is not meant for a like-to-like comparison.
You can believe what you want to, but if I am offering you the opportunity to get your queries answered, what's the point of lingering on to personal attacks?
Dude, there are other people on the forum who have responded to the question in a civil manner. Anyway, I have no intention of spiraling this thread away any further from the context.
Pray tell, what "logics" am I deviating from?I have seen many screwed up logics here, but this is on some other level.
You need a source for my first-hand experiences?
IndianSpiderman
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Never questioned the fact that China's presence in POK complicates matters. CPEC is just that for China, largely aimed at poking India. It'll make Pak a mere conduit for Chinese goods to the Arabian Sea. And all Pakistan's going to get in return is a hefty maintenance bill + more debt it can't afford.
The gap is substantial from whatever angle you look at it. It'll take Pakistan close to 30 years to get to India's present HDI level at the latter's current rate of improvement, and that gap's only increasing every year. I wouldn't call any country a failed country solely on the basis of its HDI. I don't know of anybody who does that.
Contrary to what some say, I think demonitisation and GST were much needed and timely interventions for Indian economy. And despite the pervasive misinformation campaign by so called "economists", the results are already there to for us to see. Headline growth numbers are bound to go through periodic short-term fluctuations in healthy economies (bar ones that inflate numbers, such as China). The important thing is that India's voluntarily embarked on a journey of much faster formalization of its economy and equitable growth, which only a few countries ever are able to take (which is why so few developed countries exist in the first place). That to me is much more exciting than two years of higher growth that we could have had minus those measures. As for Pakistan, I don't think India even needs to intervene to make it unravel.
What credit ratings, could you elaborate? AFAIK Pak's still taking on loans to pay off previous debts.
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By your IMF data logic, US of A is the failed nation of 2020.
IMF has a 100 different metrics, what specific metric are you talking about?
Deathstar
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No one cares about your first-hand experiences
I got it buddy. You have first hand experience with majority of Indians. The others got no experience. That's our own Abdul.
Looking for quantifiable index.
Don't need stats.
Current account balance % of GDP for US is -2.1 against -1.1 of Pakistan and 0.8 of India.
General govt debt of US is 131 % of GDP against 87% of Pakistan.
Unemployment rate of US is 8.9 % against 4.5 % of Pakistan.
So it seems US is more of a failed nation then Pakistan.
I don't think a standard methodology exists for defining a country's failure. HDI/ standard of living seems to be a metric that points in the direction of how the population thrives/survives. As far as HDI is concerned, I agree on the gap but not on it being to an extent where Pakistan has breached an undefined threshold of a point of no return.
Wow, there is a lot of dense content here. I actually agree with your long-term assessment of the process that demonitisation kick-started. Most of our consumer spending in the decades between 91 and demonitisation was being lead by the unorganised sector which, as a lot of people would know, was put in place by the catastrophic economic policies of Indira Gandhi. Now as beneficial as it was for our growth, the unorganised sector was a grey sector and wasn't contributing directly to state earnings as you pointed out.
Most economic planners/speculators were hoping for a gradual, consumer-demand led weaning of the unorganised sector to the organised sector, which would have happened in lock-step with growth in our overall GDP growth. Demonitisation was a rude shock which has had a very drastic effect and unless met with stable and growth inducing regulation, will be difficult to manage.
Pakistan has one major factor in their favour - Ease of doing business.
The situation is gradually stabilising for Pakistan -
Here's how Moody's decided not to downgrade Pakistan's rating in light of their assessment into how the economic policies in Pakistan are managing risks:
Moody's - credit ratings, research, and data for global capital markets
Moody’s CreditView is our flagship solution for global capital markets that incorporates credit ratings, research and data from Moody’s Investors Service plus research, data and content from Moody’s Analytics.
You added the word 'majority' there to suit your self-fulfilling prophecy. Sure.
I am going with IMF stats, HDI ratings as well as credit ratings. Feel free to scroll across my posts/contribute with something other than jibes.
Surprise surprise.
I would believe you as long as you don't ask me to quote stats for my first-hand experiences.
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Perhaps the reason this discussion is getting prolonged is because pak has attributes of both failed and “to be a failed” state at the same time.
there is an element of institutional decline (except for pak army) in pak, this has been on the decline since the first bomb blast by sipah-e-Sahaba in 1990.
in between there was a brief period during Musharraf rule, when he managed to bring back the normalcy, but that didn’t last long.
What’s keeping pak from going Big Bang is in a way it’s informal economy and pak army.
I say state of Pakistan is best described as a snake in the hands of a snake charmer. Any insider or outsider can make that whole country dance to their tune just by showing the “red herring” called “parity with India”, making money off it while keeping it distracted.
there is an element of institutional decline (except for pak army) in pak, this has been on the decline since the first bomb blast by sipah-e-Sahaba in 1990.
in between there was a brief period during Musharraf rule, when he managed to bring back the normalcy, but that didn’t last long.
What’s keeping pak from going Big Bang is in a way it’s informal economy and pak army.
I say state of Pakistan is best described as a snake in the hands of a snake charmer. Any insider or outsider can make that whole country dance to their tune just by showing the “red herring” called “parity with India”, making money off it while keeping it distracted.
Well, those percentages make more sense if you use them alongside their respective bases. The size of the US economy (GDP) justifies not considering the US as a 'failure' based on the latest IMF data.
Pakistan's economy is $hit, but I don't think that it is currently at a level where Pakistan will stop recieving investments.
Apart from the assessment of crdit ratings that I have shared earlier, here's an overview of World Bank's assessment:
Overview
Get the latest World Bank data, research and development indicators for Pakistan. Access economy facts, statistics, project information, development research from World Bank experts and breaking news.
www.worldbank.org
Since I seem to have stirred the hornet's nest on this thread by taking a slightly different position of questioning the attribtuion of the word "failed" to our favourite artillery shell dumping ground, allow me to state the issue properly.
Pakistan can't be underestimated or be consdered as a "Failed state" as long as:
1. Pakistan can form alliances with powerful nations that drive outcomes unfavourable to India (we isolate Pakistan).
2. Pakistan's economy stops shows signs of recovery. Pakistan is able to drive-home sizeable investments/aid/grants
3. Our relative military edge isn't perceptibly qualitative to a point that we take away Pakistan's ability to use the military option
4. No perceptible internal schism exists within Pakistan that causes dilution in Pakistan's foreign policy
I would rather have our strateigists overestimate Pakistan's capabilities in order to better prepare for all scenarios than overstate our own capabilities, but my approach doesn't seem to be a popular one on this thread at least, where we have already branded Pakistan as a failure.
