F-18 Advanced Super Hornet

[Sam Biswas]

We made mistake by selecting Rafale . Actually corrupt Congress leaders and Air force chief selected Rafale. France refused to help India in Kaveri engine development how can we can trust France. In mean time US helping Tejas MK2 engines and AMCA. By the way we are buying only 36 Rafales not 100 of them. F -18 Advance Super Hornet is more cheaper than Rafale. Rafale is 300 million dollar per aircraft is very costly.

Rafale is a clear rip off. PM Modi is moving in the right direction. Hope he negotiated with Obama to get a good deal with F/A-18. We should know in a couple of months.

 

[Immanuel]

Indeed the prices of the Rafale are quite blown out of proportion, I am sure the ASH will be around 30-40% cheaper in total costs i.e acquisition, life cycle and weapons. The supposed advantages that the Rafale brings aren't worth the significant price premium.

 

[WolfPack86]

Corruption? Do your job internally.

We don't help you for Kaveri? 1) or your contract was badly made, and you didn't ask ask the right thing. 2) Or your contract was so badly made you are unable to put Safran in court for non respect of the contract. 3) Or You never answered to Safran proposal. But today there is no court action against Safran.

US help you for Tejas MK2 ? they just sell you some engines, no TOT. And you will never received technological help from US. Or maybe for 60's jet engine tech.

SH18 cheaper? maybe? But far less capable. Just imagine : a 14 tons empty weigh fighter able to carry 8tons when Rafale is 9.5 tons and able to carry 9.5 tons. SH limited to 7.5 or 8G when Rafale is 9G and for few moments 11G (the limit is the pilot). SH has probably a more powerfull radar, but is less stealthy than Rafale.

Rafale NEVER COSTS 300 million $ !!! 300 million $ in the price of a plane + support for 10 years + all the infrastructure/36 (training spheres, tools, tests benchs...). A "dry" Rafale without support and weapon is 90 million $. It has been written dozens of time.
Don't compare a strawberry with cream and biscuits with a sole and poor apple.

France offers India 36 fly-away Rafale fighter jets at same rate as to own air
France is offering India 36 Rafale fighter jets in fly-away condition at the same price which it pays to French defence major Dassault Aviation to equip its own air force, defence sources said.

They added that this means that the cost per aircraft will be much lower than the price that was being worked out under the Medium Multi-Role Combat Aircraft (MMRCA) tender, which also involved transfer of technology.
"The price of the aircraft for India will be the same as the price at which it is sold to the French air force. This was the case during the deal for Mirage fighters too," sources said.

They added that the final pricing will depend on the specific requirements that India seeks from France and how the negotiation goes forward.

The said offer is in keeping with the joint statement issued during Prime Minister Narendra Modi's recent visit to France where he announced the intention to buy 36 Rafales off the shelf.

"The two leaders (Modi, French President) agreed to conclude an inter-governmental agreement for supply of the aircraft on terms that would be better than what is conveyed by Dassault Aviation as part of a separate process underway," the statement had said.

The "separate process" was the MMRCA tender which had been stuck for years over pricing and other issues.

French Defence Minister Jean-Yves Le Drian had met with his counterpart Manohar Parrikar here yesterday following which the two sides decided to form special teams that will work in a time-bound manner to conclude negotiations.

Defence sources said the teams will work out the finer details of the deal, including the pricing.

They also questioned the possibility whether the deal may have an offset clause, saying it would be difficult if the pricing for Indian aircraft remains the same as that for the French air force.

As per industry experts, the price of a Rafale to French air force works out to anywhere between USD 200-220 million.

"If we take the lowest value of USD 200 million, it will work out to around Rs 1,240 crore per aircraft. Even if we increase it to Rs 1,300 crore, it would be a better price than earlier," sources said.

The price per aircraft not only includes its own cost but also that for maintenance, training of pilots and technicians, armaments and spares.

Qatar has recently signed a deal worth over USD 7 billion for 24 Rafale jets. This includes MBDA missiles and the cost for the training of 36 Qatari pilots and 100 technicians. The value of each aircraft thus comes to over USD 290 million.
Asked if that price would be acceptable to India, the sources said it would have been "very expensive".

Modi has said that the aircraft and associated systems and weapons would be delivered on the same configuration as had been tested and approved by Indian Air Force, and with a longer maintenance responsibility by France.
http://www.dnaindia.com/india/repor...ghter-jets-at-same-rate-as-to-own-air-2084191

 

[WolfPack86]

As per industry experts, the price of a Rafale to French air force works out to anywhere between USD 200-220 million.
http://www.dnaindia.com/india/repor...ghter-jets-at-same-rate-as-to-own-air-2084191

 

[WolfPack86]

Qatar has recently signed a deal worth over USD 7 billion for 24 Rafale jets. This includes MBDA missiles and the cost for the training of 36 Qatari pilots and 100 technicians. The value of each aircraft thus comes to over USD 290 million.
Asked if that price would be acceptable to India, the sources said it would have been "very expensive".

Modi has said that the aircraft and associated systems and weapons would be delivered on the same configuration as had been tested and approved by Indian Air Force, and with a longer maintenance responsibility by France.
http://www.dnaindia.com/india/repor...ghter-jets-at-same-rate-as-to-own-air-2084191

 

[WolfPack86]

F-18 Advance Super Hornet is the best option for Indian air Force

 

[WolfPack86]

Some important deals which were not highlighted during PM Modi ji visit to US :

 

[WolfPack86]

Some important deals which were not highlighted during PM Modi ji visit to US :-
1) Talks on purchase of F-16 and F-18 fighter planes and their production in India.
2) Purchase of Predator-C drone.
3) Building a nuclear plant in India with US help .
4) Logistics Exchange Memorandum Agreement between India and USA .
https://www.facebook.com/IndianDefenceAtItsBest/photos?ref=page_internal

 

[BON PLAN]

Rafale is a clear rip off. PM Modi is moving in the right direction. Hope he negotiated with Obama to get a good deal with F/A-18. We should know in a couple of months.

Dreamer ! You know you are a dreamer ?

 

[BON PLAN]

Indeed the prices of the Rafale are quite blown out of proportion, I am sure the ASH will be around 30-40% cheaper in total costs i.e acquisition, life cycle and weapons. The supposed advantages that the Rafale brings aren't worth the significant price premium.

but SH is 50% as potent.
less capacity for a dry weight 50% higher
less T/W ratio
less stealthy (but a bigger radar)
less manoeuvrable
less range

 

[BON PLAN]

France offers India 36 fly-away Rafale fighter jets at same rate as to own air
France is offering India 36 Rafale fighter jets in fly-away condition at the same price which it pays to French defence major Dassault Aviation to equip its own air force, defence sources said.

They added that this means that the cost per aircraft will be much lower than the price that was being worked out under the Medium Multi-Role Combat Aircraft (MMRCA) tender, which also involved transfer of technology.
"The price of the aircraft for India will be the same as the price at which it is sold to the French air force. This was the case during the deal for Mirage fighters too," sources said.

They added that the final pricing will depend on the specific requirements that India seeks from France and how the negotiation goes forward.

The said offer is in keeping with the joint statement issued during Prime Minister Narendra Modi's recent visit to France where he announced the intention to buy 36 Rafales off the shelf.

"The two leaders (Modi, French President) agreed to conclude an inter-governmental agreement for supply of the aircraft on terms that would be better than what is conveyed by Dassault Aviation as part of a separate process underway," the statement had said.

The "separate process" was the MMRCA tender which had been stuck for years over pricing and other issues.

French Defence Minister Jean-Yves Le Drian had met with his counterpart Manohar Parrikar here yesterday following which the two sides decided to form special teams that will work in a time-bound manner to conclude negotiations.

Defence sources said the teams will work out the finer details of the deal, including the pricing.

They also questioned the possibility whether the deal may have an offset clause, saying it would be difficult if the pricing for Indian aircraft remains the same as that for the French air force.

As per industry experts, the price of a Rafale to French air force works out to anywhere between USD 200-220 million.

"If we take the lowest value of USD 200 million, it will work out to around Rs 1,240 crore per aircraft. Even if we increase it to Rs 1,300 crore, it would be a better price than earlier," sources said.

The price per aircraft not only includes its own cost but also that for maintenance, training of pilots and technicians, armaments and spares.

Qatar has recently signed a deal worth over USD 7 billion for 24 Rafale jets. This includes MBDA missiles and the cost for the training of 36 Qatari pilots and 100 technicians. The value of each aircraft thus comes to over USD 290 million.
Asked if that price would be acceptable to India, the sources said it would have been "very expensive".

Modi has said that the aircraft and associated systems and weapons would be delivered on the same configuration as had been tested and approved by Indian Air Force, and with a longer maintenance responsibility by France.
http://www.dnaindia.com/india/repor...ghter-jets-at-same-rate-as-to-own-air-2084191

dry price of french air force rafale is around 90 million €. a 200 million$ figure is with support and environnment.

 

[harsh]

Corruption? Do your job internally.

We don't help you for Kaveri? 1) or your contract was badly made, and you didn't ask ask the right thing. 2) Or your contract was so badly made you are unable to put Safran in court for non respect of the contract. 3) Or You never answered to Safran proposal. But today there is no court action against Safran.

US help you for Tejas MK2 ? they just sell you some engines, no TOT. And you will never received technological help from US. Or maybe for 60's jet engine tech.

SH18 cheaper? maybe? But far less capable. Just imagine : a 14 tons empty weigh fighter able to carry 8tons when Rafale is 9.5 tons and able to carry 9.5 tons. SH limited to 7.5 or 8G when Rafale is 9G and for few moments 11G (the limit is the pilot). SH has probably a more powerfull radar, but is less stealthy than Rafale.

Rafale NEVER COSTS 300 million $ !!! 300 million $ in the price of a plane + support for 10 years + all the infrastructure/36 (training spheres, tools, tests benchs...). A "dry" Rafale without support and weapon is 90 million $. It has been written dozens of time.
Don't compare a strawberry with cream and biscuits with a sole and poor apple.

You consider yourself a friend. Now from your post I am realising what kind of friend you are............
Franch make friends to take advantage and for business( loot is better for french).
One more thing right now india has money we can do whatever we want. We can burn it ( that is equal to buying rafales ) or we can utilise it for better for which we have options all around the world .
Sorry we do friendship and business for mutual profit not to loot by saying you are my friend. .....
Go on with your 5th gen rafale.....( hilarious)....
We are happy with 3ed gen which the all the other countries have. They are better sold in large numbers..... and those countries have money to upgrade it and build a brand new one .
Why buy planes from cash scraped countries who is begging each door but getting 1 or 2 orders in 20s or max 30s.

 

[BON PLAN]

You consider yourself a friend. Now from your post I am realising what kind of friend you are............
Franch make friends to take advantage and for business( loot is better for french).
One more thing right now india has money we can do whatever we want. We can burn it ( that is equal to buying rafales ) or we can utilise it for better for which we have options all around the world .
Sorry we do friendship and business for mutual profit not to loot by saying you are my friend. .....
Go on with your 5th gen rafale.....( hilarious)....
We are happy with 3ed gen which the all the other countries have. They are better sold in large numbers..... and those countries have money to upgrade it and build a brand new one .
Why buy planes from cash scraped countries who is begging each door but getting 1 or 2 orders in 20s or max 30s.

Peace and love Bro !

To be or not to be a friend is not the question. For my self or yours.

You seems angry... Why?

- If there is corruption in India, it's not a French or Rafale problem. You have to solve it yourself.

- F16 is an old plane, at the end of its long and beautifull life (it became heavier and heavier and his wings were studied for the lightweight fighter of the beginning. Stealth wasn't on the drawing board when studied. Low use of composite....).

- SH18 is all but "SUPER". heavy, soft in manoeuver, relatively low loading capacity.

These are facts.

Rafale has all the 5gen capacity except weapons bays. But Spectra is on top and able to mystify opponent system. And Rafale evolve year after year (in 2001 : F1 model, after F2, after F3 (full "omni role"), after F3-2, after F3-3, now F3O4, F3R on track...)

Now you can buy all you want. Rafale exist and will exist in the futur with or without India. But il will be better with you in the loop, it's sure.

I'm convinced France has better to give you than the USA'mirage.

During Kargil we gave you all the keys to improve Mirage 2000.
During operations in Lybia, UAE didn't have the US permission to use their F16 bk60 ! But they used theirs Mirage 2000-9.... interesting isn't it?

 

[harsh]

Peace and love Bro !

To be or not to be a friend is not the question. For my self or yours.

You seems angry... Why?

- If there is corruption in India, it's not a French or Rafale problem. You have to solve it yourself.

- F16 is an old plane, at the end of its long and beautifull life (it became heavier and heavier and his wings were studied for the lightweight fighter of the beginning. Stealth wasn't on the drawing board when studied. Low use of composite....).

- SH18 is all but "SUPER". heavy, soft in manoeuver, relatively low loading capacity.

These are facts.

Rafale has all the 5gen capacity except weapons bays. But Spectra is on top and able to mystify opponent system. And Rafale evolve year after year (in 2001 : F1 model, after F2, after F3 (full "omni role"), after F3-2, after F3-3, now F3O4, F3R on track...)

Now you can buy all you want. Rafale exist and will exist in the futur with or without India. But il will be better with you in the loop, it's sure.

I'm convinced France has better to give you than the USA'mirage.

During Kargil we gave you all the keys to improve Mirage 2000.
During operations in Lybia, UAE didn't have the US permission to use their F16 bk60 ! But they used theirs Mirage 2000-9.... interesting isn't it?

American are pure businessman they go where is profit......... they are neither enemy nor friend. .. at least they are clear.
France gives bribes in every contract. Scorpene is really bullshit example they started with giving promises of every tot and ends with just screws nuts and bolts that why the delay happen in contract........ they tell us all lies...
Rafale same congress government take bribe select the plane it is ok we are habitual of such corruption in every field but what happen is franch even ignore the promise of giving source code of radar so now we can not have our astra missile on it and even that corrupt congress government know that franch are biggest cheaters that why even that corrupt congress is not ready to sign the deal.
Antony in his last day want an inquiry to calculate the lowest bidder once again.
Modi don't want this but he has no option so he gives merely 36 plane order which is in cost negotiation and nearly very close
you know just some more time and some more time and more time a little more time.
You want to talk about mirage you give us that plane without missile just with a guns........ and missile comes 5 year later.. we sign upgradation pakage at the price of new planes that is loot ....

You want to talk about f 16
Radar is still smaller than f 16 shorter detection range because radome is smaller.
F 16 has aesa...... mirage no aesa.
F 16 can go cover more distance with conformal fuel tanks. .........mirage just has nothing. It just dog fight .
F16 have more hard points and now carry more weight...... well yes mirage having everything less.....
Because france don't have money to upgarde it like f16..... they give all their money to rafale.
Rafale 5th gen bull shit...........
Do you know what parameters are required to be 5th gen aircraft.

1...... AESA radar
Right now smaller because of its smaller radome even smaller to our tejus ......

2...... weak engine
75 kn thrust its a joke even 4th have more powerful engines you want 5th gen engine try to read about f135 or f119
Or pak fa 117

3. Internal bay
You know you don't have

4 surface alignment for stealth
No there is not
If you want to see than please study f22 f35 pak fa or even you can see in j20 and j35
Or see design of our amca.
That is 5th gen

5.. radar coating
Every 4th gen can have it even our tejas have it

6 infrared signature minimization
Try to look at f22. That is called 5th gen. Or you can have less effective solution that coating like pak fa but that is not available to france.

6. Spectra
Man if you have aesa technology radar you are very much immune because it changes frequency randomly
All the the fighters have ECCM technology and all hidden behind close doors.
So if you say you can counter 5th gen radar ( big radar with thousands of t/r modules) that bullshit.

7. Sensor pakage f35 will show what is sensors or integration of these sensors. Or want a less effective one try to google pak fa 101 ks u and pak fa 101 ks o. Or pak fa L band side radars integration with front and back x band radars.
That is called sensor fusion.

8. Glass Cockpit....
Look at f35 cockpit
Or pak fa thats 5th gen bigger display
Bigger single touch screen
More situational awareness measures. ......

9 helmet........
F35 helmet
Even look at it and you know what 5th gen all about.
Even you have example of typhoon that is better than rafale...... and typhoon claims that it is 4th gen.

Please read before replying and post with logics not on your favourite franch lies.

 

[WolfPack86]

PM Modi meets Barack Obama: 9 big developments that make this meeting ultra important

 

[BON PLAN]

American are pure businessman they go where is profit......... they are neither enemy nor friend. .. at least they are clear.
France gives bribes in every contract. Scorpene is really bullshit example they started with giving promises of every tot and ends with just screws nuts and bolts that why the delay happen in contract........ they tell us all lies...
Rafale same congress government take bribe select the plane it is ok we are habitual of such corruption in every field but what happen is franch even ignore the promise of giving source code of radar so now we can not have our astra missile on it and even that corrupt congress government know that franch are biggest cheaters that why even that corrupt congress is not ready to sign the deal.
Antony in his last day want an inquiry to calculate the lowest bidder once again.
Modi don't want this but he has no option so he gives merely 36 plane order which is in cost negotiation and nearly very close
you know just some more time and some more time and more time a little more time.
You want to talk about mirage you give us that plane without missile just with a guns........ and missile comes 5 year later.. we sign upgradation pakage at the price of new planes that is loot ....

You want to talk about f 16
Radar is still smaller than f 16 shorter detection range because radome is smaller.
F 16 has aesa...... mirage no aesa.
F 16 can go cover more distance with conformal fuel tanks. .........mirage just has nothing. It just dog fight .
F16 have more hard points and now carry more weight...... well yes mirage having everything less.....
Because france don't have money to upgarde it like f16..... they give all their money to rafale.
Rafale 5th gen bull shit...........
Do you know what parameters are required to be 5th gen aircraft.

1...... AESA radar
Right now smaller because of its smaller radome even smaller to our tejus ......

2...... weak engine
75 kn thrust its a joke even 4th have more powerful engines you want 5th gen engine try to read about f135 or f119
Or pak fa 117

3. Internal bay
You know you don't have

4 surface alignment for stealth
No there is not
If you want to see than please study f22 f35 pak fa or even you can see in j20 and j35
Or see design of our amca.
That is 5th gen

5.. radar coating
Every 4th gen can have it even our tejas have it

6 infrared signature minimization
Try to look at f22. That is called 5th gen. Or you can have less effective solution that coating like pak fa but that is not available to france.

6. Spectra
Man if you have aesa technology radar you are very much immune because it changes frequency randomly
All the the fighters have ECCM technology and all hidden behind close doors.
So if you say you can counter 5th gen radar ( big radar with thousands of t/r modules) that bullshit.

7. Sensor pakage f35 will show what is sensors or integration of these sensors. Or want a less effective one try to google pak fa 101 ks u and pak fa 101 ks o. Or pak fa L band side radars integration with front and back x band radars.
That is called sensor fusion.

8. Glass Cockpit....
Look at f35 cockpit
Or pak fa thats 5th gen bigger display
Bigger single touch screen
More situational awareness measures. ......

9 helmet........
F35 helmet
Even look at it and you know what 5th gen all about.
Even you have example of typhoon that is better than rafale...... and typhoon claims that it is 4th gen.

Please read before replying and post with logics not on your favourite franch lies.

Sir, why do you think I'm a liar? I'm just proud of a full french high tech product called Rafale.

Scorpene? Problem was Mazagon dock unable to take all the work intended. You're late in welding tech. It takes time to improve skill. I note first Scorpene is in trial, and India may buy 3 to 6 more. It's not because you are not happy with perf or ToT.... And if your Scorpene doesn't have torpedoes, it's not our fault also...

Mirage without missile? If you don't ordered missile, don't be surprise upgraded Mirage came without. Russian don't gave you free missile with Su or Mig.

F16 with AESA? only bk60 (80 ever built). Upgraded version are on the way. but mainly to compensate a small nose cone.
If someone want an AESA radar on Mirage 2000, no problem ! RBE2AESA was tested on Mirage 2000. But you have to pay the price. And Mirage line is over since more than 10 years.

Mirage can only do dog fight? So IAF is so stupid they paid a lot for sopwith camel like Mirage 2000 ??? Mirage can carry laser or gps guided bombs, cruise missile, anti ship missile, nuclear ramjet missile... but you know that.

5gen spec :
AESA : you will speak of the AESA Tejas radar WHEN an AESA radar will be fit and operationnal on a Tejas. Saying 7 or 8 years... Today the only radar fitted in the Tejas is a classical israeli one.
RBE2AESA is mature and flew until end of 2012. and is powerfull enough to fully used Meteor.

Engine? there are 2 engines, and dry Rafale is under 10 tons. 2x7.5T of thrust is largely enough to carry up to 9.5 external stores, when a 14Tons SH18 can only bring 8T external stores.
And for 2018 engine thrust will be upgraded to 8.3T. French air force not interested.... Qatar is. As India...

internal bay and surface alignment : Rafale is a medium plane. It was a choice made from the beginning. And Spectra was developped for that purpose. It's not without reason Spectra used 1/4 of the developpment costs of all Rafale program.
Note chineese J20 canards not aligned with main wings. And it is quoted as sealth.

Infrared : to have 2x7.5T is better to reduce IR emission than to have 2x10T or 2x15T ... It's another interest to made a compact plane and very efficient aerodynamically speaking. And M88 is equipped of a cold air tunel outside the hot plume. EJ200 hasn't for exemple.

Sensor Fusion : read Swiss eval. In 2011 sensor fusion was already active on Rafale.

Glass cockpit : it's not because the F35 cockpit look like a full HD TV it is better !

Helmet : Qatar Rafale will have it for 2018. French air force never think it's so important. And if F35 is the king of BVR, why using a helmet ?

I answered to all your questions.
But the attribute of a 5th, as established by the US, are not all these ones.
5th gen need : supercruise (F35 is not supercruiser. Rafale is) and stealth.

Have a nice day.

 

[BON PLAN]

Some important deals which were not highlighted during PM Modi ji visit to US :

Be carrefull !!!

Is US want to sell you the plane on picture you're going to be stolen ! it's a F18 and not a SH ....

Maybe because of too much bribes ..... LOL

 

[Rowdy]

Rafale is a great plane..... if french make a good ToT offer (may or maynot be related to Rafale tech, we'd also accept Tech that helps us in Tejas/AESA/Jet engine/Torpedos) and considers that we are low middle income, we can buy a good number in return.

 

[harsh]

Sir, why do you think I'm a liar? I'm just proud of a full french high tech product called Rafale.

Scorpene? Problem was Mazagon dock unable to take all the work intended. You're late in welding tech. It takes time to improve skill. I note first Scorpene is in trial, and India may buy 3 to 6 more. It's not because you are not happy with perf or ToT.... And if your Scorpene doesn't have torpedoes, it's not our fault also...

Mirage without missile? If you don't ordered missile, don't be surprise upgraded Mirage came without. Russian don't gave you free missile with Su or Mig.

F16 with AESA? only bk60 (80 ever built). Upgraded version are on the way. but mainly to compensate a small nose cone.
If someone want an AESA radar on Mirage 2000, no problem ! RBE2AESA was tested on Mirage 2000. But you have to pay the price. And Mirage line is over since more than 10 years.

Mirage can only do dog fight? So IAF is so stupid they paid a lot for sopwith camel like Mirage 2000 ??? Mirage can carry laser or gps guided bombs, cruise missile, anti ship missile, nuclear ramjet missile... but you know that.

5gen spec :
AESA : you will speak of the AESA Tejas radar WHEN an AESA radar will be fit and operationnal on a Tejas. Saying 7 or 8 years... Today the only radar fitted in the Tejas is a classical israeli one.
RBE2AESA is mature and flew until end of 2012. and is powerfull enough to fully used Meteor.

Engine? there are 2 engines, and dry Rafale is under 10 tons. 2x7.5T of thrust is largely enough to carry up to 9.5 external stores, when a 14Tons SH18 can only bring 8T external stores.
And for 2018 engine thrust will be upgraded to 8.3T. French air force not interested.... Qatar is. As India...

internal bay and surface alignment : Rafale is a medium plane. It was a choice made from the beginning. And Spectra was developped for that purpose. It's not without reason Spectra used 1/4 of the developpment costs of all Rafale program.
Note chineese J20 canards not aligned with main wings. And it is quoted as sealth.

Infrared : to have 2x7.5T is better to reduce IR emission than to have 2x10T or 2x15T ... It's another interest to made a compact plane and very efficient aerodynamically speaking. And M88 is equipped of a cold air tunel outside the hot plume. EJ200 hasn't for exemple.

Sensor Fusion : read Swiss eval. In 2011 sensor fusion was already active on Rafale.

Glass cockpit : it's not because the F35 cockpit look like a full HD TV it is better !

Helmet : Qatar Rafale will have it for 2018. French air force never think it's so important. And if F35 is the king of BVR, why using a helmet ?

I answered to all your questions.
But the attribute of a 5th, as established by the US, are not all these ones.
5th gen need : supercruise (F35 is not supercruiser. Rafale is) and stealth.

Have a nice day.

Ohhhhhhhhh now I know why the cash scarped france not interested in making a true 5th gen plane because they think their 4th gen is better than 5th gen .

man I say franch are liar. And I am serious.
no one can buy your fake stealth 4th gen aircraft on the price of 5th gen. That why you are orders in only 20s or max 30s. (Only because franch are
Lobbying hard for it not because it is a 5th gen).
if you are happy with this 4th gen plane in the era 5th its your wish.
If we buy 36 rafale then for it is always a 4th gen for 5th gen we are going to buy Pak fa.
you don't have slightest idea why the numbers are reduced to 36 and we are considering another plane with a production line numbers close tp 100.
it is because you are liar and rafale is so great plane that 36 is enough to do the work of 200 4th gen plane(well I am laughing very hard).
Go on man crack your jokes once again this time I am not going to reply. Its like bhais k aage been bajana ( it a saying in hindi)

 

[Zebra]

Rafale is a great plane..... if french make a good ToT offer (may or maynot be related to Rafale tech, we'd also accept Tech that helps us in Tejas/AESA/Jet engine/Torpedos) and considers that we are low middle income, we can buy a good number in return.

Sir, I am afraid, you are too late.