F-18 Advanced Super Hornet

[Zebra]

thnx for pointing it out..
i converted taking 1 mile as 1.6 km and the combat range is now 497 close to 500 km..
all i am saying is Tejas is a good cheap craft that has punch to it

Name of this thread is 'F 18 Advanced Super Hornet Cheaper Option for India'.

But the actual name of this aircraft is F/A-18 Super Hornet and we are talking about its newer variant Advanced Super Hornet (ASH).

And it has combat radius of about 1297 kms.

 

[Akask kumar]

Name of this thread is 'F 18 Advanced Super Hornet Cheaper Option for India'.

But the actual name of this aircraft is F/A-18 Super Hornet and we are talking about its newer variant Advanced Super Hornet (ASH).

And it has combat radius of about 1297 kms.

WOW!! wiki really make mistakes..
i rest my case..

 

[Kshatriya87]

"if ever you find yourself in a dogfight then there's something you did not do right."

That statement was made by a US pilot specifically intended for F35. He believes that the F35 is very capable of engaging and destroying targets well before you ever have to get in a dogfight.

However, this does not apply for all fighters.

 

[BON PLAN]

i found rest of the specification on wiki nearly same ..
both hav same speed at high altitude but tejas is faster at lower altitude.

Range of tejas(3000km) is > than F 18(2000 km)
but surprisingly the combat radius of Tejas is less than F-18(i will be happy if you throw some light here)..

service ceiling of tejas(16 km) > F 18 (15 km)

loaded weight - empty weight -->weight it can carrry - Tejas(3 ton) - F-18(6 ton) but can be compensated by increasing number of tejas craft(2:1) or may be MK2 version will have better load capacity since it will use F-18 engine.

for single engine aircraft its a good close fight..Keep in mind we will soon have MK2 version of Tejas more powerful..
As far as Radar is concerned,such things can be upgraded anytime.depending on requirements

Difficult to compare a single engine small fighter with a dual medium+ one !
BUT :
US fighter makers are skilled. SH18 is not a perfect plane, but not a bad one.
Tejas is made by an unskilled HAL... and in gestation for 20 years and more.

So, with some logic....

 

[BON PLAN]

That statement was made by a US pilot specifically intended for F35. He believes that the F35 is very capable of engaging and destroying targets well before you ever have to get in a dogfight.

However, this does not apply for all fighters.

and because F35 is a dogfight looser, He doesn't have anything else to say !
Specially if he is Locheed Martin appointed....

 

[Kshatriya87]

and because F35 is a dogfight looser, He doesn't have anything else to say !
Specially if he is Locheed Martin appointed....

Exactly my friend.

Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk

 

[Akask kumar]

Difficult to compare a single engine small fighter with a dual medium+ one !
BUT :
US fighter makers are skilled. SH18 is not a perfect plane, but not a bad one.
Tejas is made by an unskilled HAL... and in gestation for 20 years and more.

So, with some logic....

the same cunning US play a major role in 20 year delay by so called "unskilled" Hal ..i hope u know about the US sanctions on india.. and one more thing that didnt go as planned was Kaveri engine. developing a technology takes timeand failures too. India needs to master the Jet engine,who know if US put sanction again

 

[smestarz]

You do not have any idea about the advances and concepts of air warfare. Possibly thats because you are comfortable being in your own nice pond.
The concept of dog fight was there when there are limitations about the weapons used. Guns and missiles that were not reliable, Now the missiles are more reliable, The role of the plane is less of an agile aircraft but more like missile carrier. The missiles which are capable to destroy targets. Thus the concept behind the design is sound, there is no need to get into dogfight, the plane has superior radar and avionics, It is VLO so it gets into the enemy zone, detects the enemy, Fires its missiles which do out Range the French missile and then its off on its way. The enemy planes (here the French) will be busy with the incoming missiles to do anything else. So if this is the concept of future air war, why would the plane get into a dog fight? The dog fight would come if an only if the planes become such that detection by radar is not possible, and then the shorter ranged secondary sensors have to be used to target the enemy, Secondary sensors having shorter range, the long range missiles do not have an advantage. It becomes like a plane having a missile of 200 kms range but can detect oinly around 50 kms and hence the missile can be fired when very close to the enemy, and so the advantage of the long range missiles and sensors are negated.
So, F-35 does not have to dogfight, rather it has to be the sniper, Detect from far, fire its missiles and change positions. I do not understand the need for the French to get into dogfights. And F-35 has clear advantage over Rafale in this area (long range detection and missiles) so F-35 will play to its strengths.
As i said before, if you have a machine guy, why would you be stupid to get into a knife fight?

and because F35 is a dogfight looser, He doesn't have anything else to say !
Specially if he is Locheed Martin appointed....

 

[smestarz]

the same cunning US play a major role in 20 year delay by so called "unskilled" Hal ..i hope u know about the US sanctions on india.. and one more thing that didnt go as planned was Kaveri engine. developing a technology takes timeand failures too. India needs to master the Jet engine,who know if US put sanction again

For Kaveri engine, we had asked SNECMA to help on Kaveri, they did get paid and did nothing else.

 

[Akask kumar]

For Kaveri engine, we had asked SNECMA to help on Kaveri, they did get paid and did nothing else.

we should hire foreign expert in Jet engine tech that can help our engineer to develop one,if they charfe hefty money pay them.. because i dont think transfer of technology with a aviation company like boeing will help us in obtaining the technology of engines because boeing or saab etc use jet engines of other manufacturers like Rolls royace , General electrics..

designing and building aircraft is a challenge(and we are mastering this) but powering the same design is a double challenge..

 

[smestarz]

Kaveri saga is one reasons for delay for Tejas. Tejas was a very ambitious project with India actually starting to develop many technologies simultaneously and that too without experience. It is a truly a bold project.
It would be like you, waking up one morning, and your dad tells you "Ok, you build a car" So in same way, you get your friends to involve in the project and put them in teams and give them responsibility. Now same as you, India had to develop Kaveri from scratch and without experience, IAF was hell bent on not to accept Tejas at any cost since they wanted "imported Maal" Still due to Govt Support, DRDO ADE and other agencies went on.
Engine tech is one of the difficult technology to develop and absorb, And in a way we had to absorb the knowledge for the past 6 decades in less than 2. To help us with it, GTRE had taken the help of SNECMA (SAFRAN) who were employed as consultants, all they did was take money and did nothing to help the development. after all would you really help your competitor? Maybe GTRE was naive to expect that, As I said, France is not a friend, its only there for business and our money.. Rest all is BS. If India rejects the Rafale you can see reactions from France.

None of the engine manufacturers will be eager to give the tech readily. Which will in a way mean almost giving 4 decades of hard earned knowledge, India expects Russia and USA to provide this technology Both these countries are expected to get a bigger share of Indian defence pie. France being the loser in this case. USA is eager to sell F/A-E/F. It is a nice clean and very capable plane that can fight to its strengths, further its also a carrier based plane and hence we automatically address the future need of Indian navy.

I myself would love to have just PAKFA/FGFA and Tejas Mk1A induscted by 2020, no other plane. As that would give balance to IAF and also give the edge to take on PAF and PLAAF. Rafale is fighter of last generation and the best it can do is hold up against planes of 4th Gen. As I said before, every plane has its strengths and tactics are developed for that. Suppose India inducts F/A-18, hts strength is avionics and of course AMRAAM. so tactics for this plane should be to hit the enemy in BVR and not make the mistake of getting into WVR fights, how difficult can this be? If its plane like MiG-35 or Su-35, the pilot can take down plane like Rafale with eyes closed or sipping afternoon tea. Rafale has its strengths, but its not the best of 4.5th gen. It is one of the "also participated .." types.

Thus to come to the point that Pratt and Whitney, GE, and Rolls Royce are now moving to more developed engines which are being used in F-35 and so it makes sense for them to share the earlier tech with India and create a partnership thats beneficial for them in coming future. India would be looking at 3000 engines for its upcoming projects. And tha is a very big number for whoever gets that deal. By this year end, we shall have the likes of GE setting their plants in India for production of F-414 engines with Tech transfer and ensure partnership with India for long term strategic benefits for India and USA.

we should hire foreign expert in Jet engine tech that can help our engineer to develop one,if they charfe hefty money pay them.. because i dont think transfer of technology with a aviation company like boeing will help us in obtaining the technology of engines because boeing or saab etc use jet engines of other manufacturers like Rolls royace , General electrics..

designing and building aircraft is a challenge(and we are mastering this) but powering the same design is a double challenge..

 

[SajeevJino]

With all the planes data linked, wonder if only one aircraft turns radar on and shares the feed with other aircraft.

I do not know if it is possible but very much feasible.

The Gripen E already advertised such capability

If one sees the enemy all see, I sure modern aircraft's does have such data links

 

[pmaitra]

With all the planes data linked, wonder if only one aircraft turns radar on and shares the feed with other aircraft.

I do not know if it is possible but very much feasible.

Data link is possible, where one aircraft turns its radars on and shares with the rest. F-35 (which should be called A-35, but that is besides the point), can be data linked. The difference is, AWACS carry a much larger radar compared to a fighter or strike aircraft.

 

[BON PLAN]

the same cunning US play a major role in 20 year delay by so called "unskilled" Hal ..i hope u know about the US sanctions on india.. and one more thing that didnt go as planned was Kaveri engine. developing a technology takes timeand failures too. India needs to master the Jet engine,who know if US put sanction again

You're right.
So saying Tejas is as efficient as SH18 except range is excessive.

 

[BON PLAN]

For Kaveri engine, we had asked SNECMA to help on Kaveri, they did get paid and did nothing else.

Of course. Are we obliged to believe you? Why not putting SNECMA on court?

 

[sob]

Data link is possible, where one aircraft turns its radars on and shares with the rest. F-35 (which should be called A-35, but that is besides the point), can be data linked. The difference is, AWACS carry a much larger radar compared to a fighter or strike aircraft.

This was a scenario when the AWACS has been shot down. One of of the posters had mentioned about the AWACS killer and the possible scenario after that.

 

[WolfPack86]

Parrikar Comments creates Buzz over F-18 offer
Defence Minister Manohar Parrikar created media buzz when he said that in a recent Interview that “After 36 Twin engined Rafale fighter India will buy another Twin engined Fighter jet ” . A Certain section of media speculated that both single-engined F-16 and Gripen E more or less have been rejected in favour of Twin-Engined F-18 Super Hornet which was offered by Boeing . But Highly informed sources close to idrw.org have informed us that media might have misunderstood what Defence minister actually meant and he might not be actually referring to Boeing F-18 but to the proposed Indo-Russian Joint venture to develop 5th Generation FGFA based on Sukhoi Pak-fa . According to media reports which quoted Defence ministry officials said that India plans to induct 400 New fighter jets by 2030 . 36 Rafale fighter jets will be procured from France and 114 FGFA 5th Generation fighter jets will be produced in India . IAF has also agreed to place orders for 100 Upgraded Tejas MK-1A and 20 Tejas MK1 and Development of Stretched and upgraded MK2 fighter jets too will be carried out and orders for Indigenous LCA-Tejas and its variants might expand to 250 aircraft. Previously idrw.org had reported that DRDO plans to have first flight of LCA-Tejas MK-2 by 2022 and GE officials in at recently concluded DEFExpo 2016 in Goa have confirmed that considerable progress on the development of F414-INS6 has been made and development work of F414-INS6 for LCA Tejas Mk II will be completed by the end of 2016 . ” We are ready to initiate technology transfer for F414-INS6 engine production with HAL and we are in talks for continuing supply of F404-IN20 engines for LCA Tejas Mk I and for its variants ( MK-1A),” Said GE official to idrw.org . Previous Defence Minister A.K.Antony few years back had hinted that Indigenous LCA-Tejas fighter jet will replace all retiring fleet of Mig-21 and Mig-27 from Indian Air Force which might take LCA-Tejas orders well over 300 to replace one to one aircraft been retired .
http://idrw.org/parrikar-comments-creates-buzz-f-18-offer/

 

[smestarz]

This capability is used by most military combat aircraft including Su-30 MKI. What we need is that not just networking of one model, but rather networking of different combat aircraft being used in a sector, Presently this is being done by using AWACS, but the ultimate goal would be to say like using a pair of Su-30 MKIs Radar and those accompanied by few Tejas (4-8) as its flying buddies and networked together thus the long range radar of Su-30 MKI is used to scan and track the targets and Tejas which acts ass missiles carrier here, targets these as its networked with the Sukhois. Thus the cost of operation would be low, but we shall be able to put a big amount of firepower in the air and that too at a low cost of operations.
Say 4 Su-30 MKI can cover a lot of space but that would mean a higher cost of operations
6-8 Tejas can cover that same area at much lower cost, but the radar range would be shorter
But combination of the two, say 2 Su-30 MKI and 2-4 Tejas would cover the same area at lower cost of operation where Su-30 MKI becomes the mini-AWACS and the scanning and othr info is shared with the Tejas and hence have the potential to provide higher firepower at given time.

The Gripen E already advertised such capability

If one sees the enemy all see, I sure modern aircraft's does have such data links

 

[Akask kumar]

Kaveri saga is one reasons for delay for Tejas. Tejas was a very ambitious project with India actually starting to develop many technologies simultaneously and that too without experience. It is a truly a bold project.
It would be like you, waking up one morning, and your dad tells you "Ok, you build a car" So in same way, you get your friends to involve in the project and put them in teams and give them responsibility. Now same as you, India had to develop Kaveri from scratch and without experience, IAF was hell bent on not to accept Tejas at any cost since they wanted "imported Maal" Still due to Govt Support, DRDO ADE and other agencies went on.
Engine tech is one of the difficult technology to develop and absorb, And in a way we had to absorb the knowledge for the past 6 decades in less than 2. To help us with it, GTRE had taken the help of SNECMA (SAFRAN) who were employed as consultants, all they did was take money and did nothing to help the development. after all would you really help your competitor? Maybe GTRE was naive to expect that, As I said, France is not a friend, its only there for business and our money.. Rest all is BS. If India rejects the Rafale you can see reactions from France.

None of the engine manufacturers will be eager to give the tech readily. Which will in a way mean almost giving 4 decades of hard earned knowledge, India expects Russia and USA to provide this technology Both these countries are expected to get a bigger share of Indian defence pie. France being the loser in this case. USA is eager to sell F/A-E/F. It is a nice clean and very capable plane that can fight to its strengths, further its also a carrier based plane and hence we automatically address the future need of Indian navy.

I myself would love to have just PAKFA/FGFA and Tejas Mk1A induscted by 2020, no other plane. As that would give balance to IAF and also give the edge to take on PAF and PLAAF. Rafale is fighter of last generation and the best it can do is hold up against planes of 4th Gen. As I said before, every plane has its strengths and tactics are developed for that. Suppose India inducts F/A-18, hts strength is avionics and of course AMRAAM. so tactics for this plane should be to hit the enemy in BVR and not make the mistake of getting into WVR fights, how difficult can this be? If its plane like MiG-35 or Su-35, the pilot can take down plane like Rafale with eyes closed or sipping afternoon tea. Rafale has its strengths, but its not the best of 4.5th gen. It is one of the "also participated .." types.

Thus to come to the point that Pratt and Whitney, GE, and Rolls Royce are now moving to more developed engines which are being used in F-35 and so it makes sense for them to share the earlier tech with India and create a partnership thats beneficial for them in coming future. India would be looking at 3000 engines for its upcoming projects. And tha is a very big number for whoever gets that deal. By this year end, we shall have the likes of GE setting their plants in India for production of F-414 engines with Tech transfer and ensure partnership with India for long term strategic benefits for India and USA.

nicely explained.. thnx for reply

 

[smestarz]

F-35 is the right designation for the plane, Rather it can be F/A-35 if required, but then even F-16 was similarly capable but it just had F-16. F-35 is designed with excellent future vision that VLO plane with excellent avionics and longer range missiles will be able to be stealthy , get into a good position, and target the enemy with its longer ranged missiles and then be VLO again, Thus in simplistic way, F-35 is not designed to be a dog fighter, there is no need for it, Rafale fan boys talk a lot of dog fight, because in a way Rafale was designed a few decades earlier when Dog fighting was considered an important quality. But USA feels that its way to fight future wars will like that of sniper. To stalk the targets and take down the targets before they realise its too late. And in battle of say a dog fighter like Rafale and 2 A2A missiles with AESA seekers the missiles will win. So what is the point to dog fight?
Thus the F-35 will be like sniper teams hunting in pairs what would planes like Rafale do against such planes? It is a new style of air war and most 4th Gen planes are ill equipped for them unless these planes get a radar that can detect Stealth plane at long range and thats when the entire investment on F-35 project suddenly look wasted. Till then F-35 is technologically more advanced than rest of the planes. I said technologically advanced, I did not say better in acrobatics and flying.

Data link is possible, where one aircraft turns its radars on and shares with the rest. F-35 (which should be called A-35, but that is besides the point), can be data linked. The difference is, AWACS carry a much larger radar compared to a fighter or strike aircraft.