Early Mauryan temples discovered in Hardoi

[Shaitan]

Ok, this is just a joke.

What is "South East?" All I can think of is the Bay of Bengal, the "Fish Empire."

Honestly, Odisha and the regions around it are little different to me than Eastern India.

Cause I always separate Kalingas to the Magadhas. But I guess Odisha is Eastern India too.

 

[parijataka]

Just 1000 years ago, tamil was spoken in modern day tamil nadu as well as kerala and present day kerala had a language called "senthamil" meaning chaste tamil.

How this separation happened is unknown to me. Similarly telegu and kannada are related more to each other but in their case it is older so far as separation is concerned.

@MAYURA - the proto dravidian language was kandhamil precursor of tamil and kannada - from tamil came malayalam and from kannada came telugu. telugu is the youngest of the s indian languages and tamil the oldest.

 

[MAYURA]

Ummmm.... It is just as different. You're fooling yourself if you think other wise.

Linguistically certainly not as any hindi speaker can know. it is easier for me to learn marathi than for any marathi learning tamil

Those kingdoms are most definitely East Indians my friend. I dont have anything against N. Indians, etc. It's just that you can break India up into many sections. (North, South East, South, Deccan, etc.) One thing you do not mix is North Indian regions like Punjab with East Indian regions like Bihar. No flat land is ever going to change that fact.

Change the wiki and edit it as well as numerous books. You are calling gupta empire a bihari empire on what basis because they came from modern day bihar?

Bihar and UP were inseparable in thpose days and in case you do not know languges develop with time so earlier people were more united than now linguistically.

1500 years ago, spain, italy and france shared same language man.

 

[Shaitan]

Change the wiki and edit it as well as numerous books. You are calling gupta empire a bihari empire on what basis because they came from modern day bihar?

Im calling the Guptas, Mauryas, Sungas, Palas, I guess the Kalingas, etc. East Indians because they're..... East Indians.... Pretty simple.

Harsha's empire is North Indian because he's from North India.

Haryana-Bihar <<< North and East, simple.


They're from two different cultural blocks.

 

[MAYURA]

@MAYURA - the proto dravidian language was kandhamil precursor of tamil and kannada - from tamil came malayalam and from kannada came telugu. telugu is the youngest of the s indian languages and tamil the oldest.

Telegu is not younger than malyalam as oldest telegu inscription is from 575 ad only 125 years younger than kannada inscription of kadamba dynasty.

Malyalam is not attested before 1000 ad and its literature starts with 13th century but telegu has one milennium old literature.


the separation between tamil and malyalam is quite late.

 

[pmaitra]

Honestly, Odisha and the regions around it are little different to me then Eastern India.

Cause I always separate Kalingas to the Magadhas. But I guess Odisha is Eastern India too.

Well, Kalinga is different from Magadha, that is quite correct. It's just that, Kalinga and Orissa are not exactly the same thing geographically.

Orissa can be better defined as Utkal (North Orissa) + Kalinga (South Orissa). North Orissa (roughly Utkal) was part of Magadha, while Kalinga was not, but was invaded and incorporated into the Mauryan Empire.

 

[parijataka]

Telegu is not younger than malyalam as oldest telegu inscription is from 575 ad only 125 years younger than kannada inscription of kadamba dynasty.

Malyalam is not attested before 1000 ad and its literature starts with 13th century but telegu has one milennium old literature.


the separation between tamil and malyalam is quite late.

ok I will read up - gtg.

@pmaitra, @Shaitan - gangetic plains used by @MAYURA is better term than N India, E India, etc - AFAIK in the days of Mauryas, Guptas, etc there was no Bengali, Odiya, etc languages right ? Perhaps Prakrit, Pali, etc.

 

[Shaitan]

ok I will read up - gtg.

@pmaitra, @Shaitan - gangetic plains used by @MAYURA is better term than N India, E India, etc - AFAIK in the days of Mauryas, Guptas, etc there was no Bengali, Odiya, etc languages right ? Perhaps Prakrit, Pali, etc.

Yes, but there were cultural differences between North India proper(Punjabis, Sindhis, etc) to East India proper (Biharis, Bengalis, etc) back then as today. Even Indians already knows this. So they have to be broken up, just like the Deccan and the deep South should be broken up.

It doesn't matter if there was a plain connecting them or not.

We dont connect Slavs(east),Scandinavians(Dans, North), etc. because they're in a damn plain.

There are clear cultural blocks.

 

[pmaitra]

ok I will read up - gtg.

@pmaitra, @Shaitan - gangetic plains used by @MAYURA is better term than N India, E India, etc - AFAIK in the days of Mauryas, Guptas, etc there was no Bengali, Odiya, etc languages right ? Perhaps Prakrit, Pali, etc.

Yes, but there were cultural differences between North India proper(Punjabis, Sindhis, etc) to East India proper (Biharis, Bengalis, etc) back then as today. Even Indian already knows this. So they have to be broken up, just like the Deccan and the deep South should be broken up.

Both of you, as well as @MAYURA, are correct from your own perspectives. I did not see any reason to disagree with any perspective.

It is all a perspective.

 

[MAYURA]

We dont connect Slavs(east),Scandinavians(Dans, North), etc. because they're in a damn plain.

This statement of yours ended all chances of reconciliation as both have diffferent languages.

we do connect slavs in history. the difference between punjabi language and bihari bhojpuri is not much as say between polish and russian and since we do connect slavs, we must connect damn gangetic plain dwellers.

OK, i modify my statement let me say that areas from which ramayana and mahabharata heroes came were superior.

Sri ram was from UP, Sita was from bihar, draupadi was from UP and whole pandava and kauravas were from west UP and haryana.

It is clear that heroes who have loomed large on indian consciousness have come from these areas only that is indo gangetic plains.

 

[MAYURA]

Orissa can be better defined as Utkal (North Orissa) + Kalinga (South Orissa). North Orissa (roughly Utkal) was part of Magadha, while Kalinga was not, but was invaded and incorporated into the Mauryan Empire.

Kalinga also included border areas of Andhra like upper coastal cities of srikakulam and vizag.

 

[Shaitan]

we do connect slavs in history. the difference between punjabi language and bihari bhojpuri is not much as say between polish and russian and since we do connect slavs, we must connect damn gangetic plain dwellers.

Linguistic isnt everything. Yeah, the languages are related, so what? I personally have Punjabis tell me they can pick out East Indian workers like Biharis in Punjab. There is a cultural difference from a Punjabi, Sindhi(North Indians) to a Bihairi, Bengali(East Indians). This isn't even an argument. Are you really trying to tell you can group East Indian with North Indians like Punjabis, etc? You might as well put in Gurkhas and other Nepali ethnic groups.

 

[MAYURA]

Yes, but there were cultural differences between North India proper(Punjabis, Sindhis, etc) to East India proper (Biharis, Bengalis, etc) back then as today. Even Indians already knows this. So they have to be broken up, just like the Deccan and the deep South should be broken up.

It doesn't matter if there was a plain connecting them or not.

This is what not reading books can land you into.

dude, Jalalabad was an area with brahmins, people abhorring beef, speaking some sort of proto punjabi in 1000 ad. while they had differences with Bengal, they were culturally similar in most things.

can you find any similarity between modern day jalalbad and amritsar?

stop projecting your own sindhi and punjabi and bihari identities onto them.
India has changed much in last 1000 years with modern day pakistan becoming a persianized zone completely.

 

[MAYURA]

Linguistic isnt everything. Yeah, the languages are related, so what? I personally have Punjabis tell me they can pick out East Indian workers like Biharis in Punjab. There is a cultural difference from a Punjabi, Sindhi(North Indians) to a Bihairi, Bengali(East Indians). This isn't even an argument. Are you really trying to tell you can group East Indian with North Indians like Punjabis, etc? You might as well put in Gurkhas and other Nepali ethnic groups.

Are punjabis in gangetic plain?

has nothing changed in last 1000 years?

 

[pmaitra]

Sri ram was from UP, Sita was from bihar, draupadi was from UP and whole pandava and kauravas were from west UP and haryana.

Well Gandhari was from Gandhara, or present day region around Kandahar. So, all the Kauravas, (except Yuyutsu) were half-Afghans. The Pandavas were born out of five different men (Devas to be precise), so again, they cannot be said to be from any particular region.

I think Ramayana and Mahabharata would take this into a different tangent.

Perhaps we should come back to the thread topic?

 

[Shaitan]

This is what not reading books can land you into.

dude, Jalalabad was an area with brahmins, people abhorring beef, speaking some sort of proto punjabi in 1000 ad. while they had differences with Bengal, they were culturally similar in most things.

can you find any similarity between modern day jalalbad and amritsar?

stop projecting your own sindhi and punjabi and bihari identities onto them.
India has changed much in last 1000 years with modern day pakistan becoming a persianized zone completely.

Cul


Europeans like the Iberians, Gauls, Britons, Italian groups, etc, etc. who were closer to each other are very much different from each other. And you expect Punjabis who are from all the way in one side of India and Biharis from deep inside the eastern parts of the the nation to be similar? Yeah, they're similar just like a Deccanese and an East Indian would be "similar". But you can still break them up and its totally justified.

 

[Shaitan]

stop projecting your own sindhi and punjabi and bihari identities onto them.
India has changed much in last 1000 years with modern day pakistan becoming a persianized zone completely.

1000 years only? You can go back further.

[

Punjab has had direct contact with outsiders for many, many, many years. Where as east India did not. There are definite cultural differences back then, just like today. You would be delusional to think other wise.

 

[MAYURA]

Well Gandhari was from Gandhara, or present day region around Kandahar. So, all the Kauravas, (except Yuyutsu) were half-Afghans. The Pandavas were born out of five different men (Devas to be precise), so again, they cannot be said to be from any particular region.

I think Ramayana and Mahabharata would take this into a different tangent.

Perhaps we should come back to the thread topic?

Gandhara was not kandahar but yes let us be on topic which does not need much to say.

when we contrast south indian dravidians , we use north indians as our brahmin classification shows.

pancha gaudas are north indian brahmins whereas pancha dravida are south indian brahmins.

if you are a bengali, you must be knowing that back in sena period, UP exported lots of brahmans to relatively backward bengal as this region was one so migration was easy.

 

[MAYURA]

1000 years only? You can go back further.

[

Punjab has had direct connect with outsiders for many, many, many years. Where as east India did not. There are definite cultural differences back then, just like today. You would be delusional to think other wise.

If you think by being part of empire punjabis became greeks and persians , nice day and i give up.

Did you miss this

dude, Jalalabad was an area with brahmins, people abhorring beef, speaking some sort of proto punjabi in 1000 ad. while they had differences with Bengal, they were culturally similar in most things.

can you find any similarity between modern day jalalbad and amritsar?

this was despite being part of achaemenian, indo greeks, kushanas etc.

all these people failed to impact culture in any way of frontier region except clothing.

 

[Shaitan]

dude, Jalalabad was an area with brahmins, people abhorring beef, speaking some sort of proto punjabi in 1000 ad. while they had differences with Bengal, they were culturally similar in most things.

Is that all there is to culture??

An Indian Christian goes to church on Sundays and worships Jesus.

An Indian Muslim doesn't eat Pork and prays five times a day.

Means they are similar culturally to Europeans or Arabs?

Or even to other Christians/Muslim Indians?

Even Pakistani Muslims and Bangali Muslims are so different.