DRDO, PSU and Private Defence Sector News

[Chinmoy]

actually from baba kalyani interview it seems they have been positive about new policies. the only thing Kalyani and others have complained long gestation time and uncertainty of requirement around it. Which any business would be because of sunken costs in keeping production line open.

Its not unique to him. Every MIC in this world who is involved in R&D sees this long gestation period. Only if he considers Turkiye S-I-L, each and every R&D sector/MIC sees this long gestation period.

 

[SwordOfDarkness]

Even their electronics - FCS , sights etc are average at best . Nothing to be worried about.

Here are some pages from the user manual.

View attachment 232352

View attachment 232353

First round hit probability is only 68 percent.

View attachment 232354

View attachment 232355

Both Arjun mk1 and mk1A have better vectronics , sights and FCS compared to VT-4.

Our T-90S is only lacking the automatic target tracker . Once it is introduced across the fleet, it will usher in true hunter killer capability for our Bhismas.

If you have the manual, can you share?

Would be interesting to go through

 

[Blood+]

If you have the manual, can you share?

Would be interesting to go through

Here - https://www.mediafire.com/file/ohkw94183ubqkol/vt4-MTL.pdf/file

 

[raju1982]

actually from baba kalyani interview it seems they have been positive about new policies. the only thing Kalyani and others have complained long gestation time and uncertainty of requirement around it. Which any business would be because of sunken costs in keeping production line open.

kalayani should start finding international customers like SA, Armenia.

 

[AnantS]

kalayani should start finding international customers like SA, Armenia.

Armenia is already a customer. People expressing disappointment in our pvt sector - is not without cause. Our pvt sector has poor track record of supporting R&D - even in non defence sectors(I am counting out their outsourced design and dev centers outside India)

 

[Marliii]

Sure, while we don't know about the exact materials that goes into the armor array and therefore, their true properties, certain things like the LOS thickness of the armor can be estimated quite accurately by simply examining photographs of the tanks, if one knows what and where to look for.
Anyway, in the case of VT-4, we don't even need to speculate since we have got official documentation available to us.
And ~640 mm at 0 degrees is, dare I say, quite underwhelming and I'm being modest here.
For comparison, here's a turret armor schematics of the T-90S released by the manufacturers - the Uralvagonzavod:

As you can see, even the thinnest section of the turret armor is thicker than the thickest section in VT-4. So, on that account alone, we can conclude the protection level of T-90S to be higher than that of VT-4. Plus, VT-4 suffers from the same design weakness as any other Chinese MBTs - a total lack of side protection.

And lastly, if you think my long-ass rant has got anything to do with the origin of the respective MBTs, then you'd be dead wrong. It's just a fact, the same way as VT-4s having better engine and therefore higher mobility, a better vectronics suite as well as better ammo are also objective facts.

If this was the situation then why did pakis had their vt4s not equipped with APS? They were always coping that VT4 was superior to all tanks in the sub continent and didnt require APS.but now with this info I am puzzled.

 

[Blood+]

If this was the situation then why did pakis had their vt4s not equipped with APS? They were always coping that VT4 was superior to all tanks in the sub continent and didnt require APS.but now with this info I am puzzled.

Arey yaar, unki toh adat hai bakwas karne ka. As for why they didn't go for the APS option, I can't really say for certain. Maybe they didn't have the $$.

 

[AnantS]

Its not unique to him. Every MIC in this world who is involved in R&D sees this long gestation period. Only if he considers Turkiye S-I-L, each and every R&D sector/MIC sees this long gestation period.

Yes, but outside India way Pvt sector manages is their R&D costs are shared by their Govt (esp in Defence sector)

 

[Arihant Roy]

According to this , Drdo's ERA Mk 2 is similar in performance to the ERA of T-90. Now T-90A/S uses Kontakt -5.

According to official DRDO website on ERA Mk2, it has been inducted into service as an import substitute for T-90.

This same ERA Mk2 is used on Arjun mk1A.


Watch from 4:15 onwards . According to Mr Dhanpal, if a Heat warhead jet which has a DOP of 800 mm is fired at Arjun mk1A , it will only penetrate only 200 mm and there will be protection of 600 mm. From this ,it can be deduced that ERA Mk2 has around 600 mm RHA protection value against HEAT.

Now here's the question. What are the performance figures of Kontakt 5? Did some searching. The figures range from 400 to 600 mm RHA for HEAT and 250 mm for APFSDS.
Does anyone here know the correct figures ?
@Blood+

If it's 450-500 mm RHA for K5, then our indigenous HEMRL designed ERA Mk2 is better at 600 mm RHA. Now these ERA usually have a shelf life of 10-15 years. Meaning the ERA on the initial batches of T-90S imported in CKD and SCKD form from UVZ needs replacement and these have been done with our own Era mk2 this improving overall protection levels.

 

[Bleh]

According to this , Drdo's ERA Mk 2 is similar in performance to the ERA of T-90. Now T-90A/S uses Kontakt -5.

View attachment 232439

According to official DRDO website on ERA Mk2, it has been inducted into service as an import substitute for T-90.

This same ERA Mk2 is used on Arjun mk1A.


Watch from 4:15 onwards . According to Mr Dhanpal, if a Heat warhead jet which has a DOP of 800 mm is fired at Arjun mk1A , it will only penetrate only 200 mm and there will be protection of 600 mm. From this ,it can be deduced that ERA Mk2 has around 600 mm RHA protection value against HEAT.

Now here's the question. What are the performance figures of Kontakt 5? Did some searching. The figures range from 400 to 600 mm RHA for HEAT and 250 mm for APFSDS.
Does anyone here know the correct figures ?
@Blood+

View attachment 232440

If it's 450-500 mm RHA for K5, then our indigenous HEMRL designed ERA Mk2 is better at 600 mm RHA. Now these ERA usually have a shelf life of 10-15 years. Meaning the ERA on the initial batches of T-90S imported in CKD and SCKD form from UVZ needs replacement and these have been done with our own Era mk2 this improving overall protection levels.

ERA Mark2 on Arjun is older than NG-ERA tested on the T-72 upgrade & better performing than K5... Can't find the source rn.
Will share if i get it

Edit: Found it...

Indian Army T- 90 (Bhishma) and T- 72 (M-1) Tanks

Indian T-90 tanks appear with ‘cope cage’ defense on top Recent images circulated on social media showed Indian T-90S main battle tanks with large ‘Cope Cages’ on top. These tanks with these rather unconventional structures were identified as part of the Western Command of the Indian Army...

defenceforumindia.com

 

[itsme]

 

[Chinmoy]

Yes, but outside India way Pvt sector manages is their R&D costs are shared by their Govt (esp in Defence sector)

In India too it happens. But as I said, its the order which gets focus instead of funding they get.

 

[AnantS]

In India too it happens. But as I said, its the order which gets focus instead of funding they get.

If thats true - then thats one step in right direction.

 

[Eagle Eye]

deleted.......

 

[raju1982]

Armenia is already a customer. People expressing disappointment in our pvt sector - is not without cause. Our pvt sector has poor track record of supporting R&D - even in non defence sectors(I am counting out their outsourced design and dev centers outside India)

R&D by private sector is a joke. They are vasically BPO and licensed assembly plants.

For example India has one of the largest cell phone network with huge market still not a single company which build Telecom infra in India.

DRDO without any help from industry is doing a great job, even handholding them. But DRDO needs to adopt proper project management.

 

[UnderFingy]

For example India has one of the largest cell phone network with huge market still not a single company which build Telecom infra in India.

Indus Towers, Tejas Networks (Tata Co), Valiant Communications

Indus towers and Summit Digitel form a virtual duopoly in India.
Tejas Networks is building BSNL's pan India 4G/5G infrastructure
These are listed ones. There are several others that are not listed which are a part of the supply chain.

What am I missing?

 

[raju1982]

Indus Towers, Tejas Networks (Tata Co), Valiant Communications

Indus towers and Summit Digitel form a virtual duopoly in India.
Tejas Networks is building BSNL's pan India 4G/5G infrastructure
These are listed ones. There are several others that are not listed which are a part of the supply chain.

What am I missing?

Do Indus Towers or Summit Digitel are OEM of the electronics, software etc? No. They buy from abroad. They are infra companies, not OEM. Just like most Indian cars/SUVs had transmissions or engines sourced from outside till recently, which are most critical engineering. Just like Tejas has engine, radar from US and Isarel bit DRDO is working on them.

For example Jio used buy from Samsung, now added Ericsson and Nokia as well for 5G.

 

[AnantS]

indus towers are consortium of mobile operators who came under single umbrella to share towers and other infra among themselves. JIO is not part of it.

 

[UnderFingy]

Do Indus Towers or Summit Digitel are OEM of the electronics, software etc? No. They buy from abroad. They are infra companies, not OEM. Just like most Indian cars/SUVs had transmissions or engines sourced from outside till recently, which are most critical engineering. Just like Tejas has engine, radar from US and Isarel bit DRDO is working on them.

For example Jio used buy from Samsung, now added Ericsson and Nokia as well for 5G.

The conversation was about R&D. Tejas networks does their own R&D and they are the OEMs. What they cannot manufacture they buy from companies like valiant and Sanmina Sci in Chennai.
Tejas got the BSNL order through TCS btw. So, the Tatas are involved in a big way here.
Tejas also exports to France, Mexico and some other countries in Europe.

I added Indus and Summit in the because you said there are no companies that build the telecom infra in India.

 

[UnderFingy]

indus towers are consortium of mobile operators who came under single umbrella to share towers and other infra among themselves. JIO int part of it.

Jio's partner is Summit Digitel