DRDO, PSU and Private Defence Sector News

[DumbPilot]

The question was about the ground attack version of Rudram 2 (not SEAD version) though your explanation about SEAD vs regular ground attack missiles is good.

My bad then. Thought the conversation was about the version of Rudram II with an ARM warhead

 

[Master Chief]

The question was about the ground attack version of Rudram 2 (not SEAD version) though your explanation about SEAD vs regular ground attack missiles is good.

Does Rudram 2 have anti ship capabilities?

 

[SwordOfDarkness]

Does Rudram 2 have anti ship capabilities?

Nope, only has regular guidance seeker for ground strike and passive seeker for ARM role . Ballistic missiles with such a small warhead wont be very effective anyway even against old ships. Better to use subsonic cruise missiles, also cheap but effective.

 

[karn]

Nope, only has regular guidance seeker for ground strike and passive seeker for ARM role . Ballistic missiles with such a small warhead wont be very effective anyway even against old ships. Better to use subsonic cruise missiles, also cheap but effective.

Warhead is comparable to exocet
and is it really that difficult to lock in on the radar emissions from a ship and use its IIR for terminal guidance ? I'm not saying that it is a naval missile just that it can be one.

 

[NoobWannaLearn]

Anyone going to defexpo this year?

 

[SwordOfDarkness]

Warhead is comparable to exocet
and is it really that difficult to lock in on the radar emissions from a ship and use its IIR for terminal guidance ? I'm not saying that it is a naval missile just that it can be one.

Its actually possible, infact LRASM has a major component of passive homing in order to maximise the stealth of the missile.

but IDK how well it will work as an AShM, atleast till now no claim of such capability.

 

[Pazhassiraja]

I mean, it's primarily an anti-ship missile, so that's a no-brainer.

I accept, but I was talking about the land-attack version. I was wondering what kind of moving structure on land can become a target to Brahmos, which could have been otherwise targeted by Rudram if it was not a mobile one. Further I was doubting, since Rudram is a quasi-ballistic missile with mid-way guidance possible, can it become a cost-effective alternative to Brahmos land-attack version. Anyways, thanks to some of our esteemed members for enlightening answers.

 

[karn]

I accept, but I was talking about the land-attack version. I was wondering what kind of moving structure on land can become a target to Brahmos, which could have been otherwise targeted by Rudram if it was not a mobile one. Further I was doubting, since Rudram is a quasi-ballistic missile with mid-way guidance possible, can it become a cost-effective alternative to Brahmos land-attack version. Anyways, thanks to some of our esteemed members for enlightening answers.

If you look at old articles on the rudhram there is definitely a land based version of the same in the works ... Indeed pralay /prahar are more cost effective than brahmos due to being solid motors as opposed to the imported ramjet .

 

[Kuldeepm952]

I hope Drdo is asked to start working on a upgraded interceptor Akash mk2 (not 1s). My list would include increasing the range to 40-50km by changing the fuel composition, better ramjet and miniaturising other internals, the missile weighs whooping 720kg, even more than SA6 missile, should be doable imo. Upgrading the current in-service Rajendra Radar for engagement of upto 6 targets simultaneously atleast (should be doable now that seeker has been added and won't need to make extra Ku band or was it X band(?) command channel links for it)and more optimised for threats of future(basically munitions and low rcs threats). ARM decoys can also be added to units for increased survivability (this has already been made). Maybe also add TVC to Akash missiles as it is powered all the way, just makes sense. Add anti-tactical ballistic missile capability against 500km class TBMs atleast.

These all are viable upgrades without changing the base very much. I am not sure but I believe there's a merit in trying to make it somewhat containerised just like the Chinese did with their HQ6 Sam, basically their copied sea sparrow missile tweaked a little bit to effectively double the magazine carried. Will require some kind of addon or workaround to current launchers for box-isation of missiles (for starters, trymaking wings foldable and then wrapping a box around it but still making the missile rail launch inside the box) , new launchers could be added as an optional buy.

Just don't you dare say that AkChUALly there is Akash NG. That thing is nothing Akash related but in name only. That's a different beast, it deserves a different name, able to engage 10 targets, that too at mid ranges is creme la de creme.

Akash is a good SAM, will stay for decades in future as well. NEED to work on update now so that we don't get ourselves trapped in the current practice of IAF to do a major upgrade after the product is nearing obselence like the current Sukhois.

Repeat after me, Continuous batch upgrade introduction>>>>>>>>>>>>>>one or two time mid life upgrade.

 

[Kuldeepm952]

Continuing on my previous banter. Unfortunately, we are not the best in launcher design and it seems that a redesigned launcher should be easily able to carry atleast 8 missiles both in qrsam and Akash NG launcher, yeah yeah in slew type launcher.

I really hate the idea of ranging missiles to enemys standoff weapons. Typical range of glide bomb is 80ish Kms and 30km for without wings, basic LS series bombs range, license produced in Pak as paki weapon.
SAM range should always be greater than enemy's standoff weapons. I know there are longer range weapons but they are limited in number and reserved for typical strategic targets. Whereas a plane carrying glide bombs kinda weapon could easily be stockpiled in a huge quantity. And I don't want to be the person hearing the argument that but I will fire a SAM on every glide bomb fired at my area, basically waste of money and resource. I would rather like to destroy the release platform before it launches its vectors. More imp. when Sneaky Turkish have effectively increased the engagement range to 30km to 50kmish with their MAM series mini munitions which are extremely cheap.

So, increase the range of QRSAM and VLSRSAM to a respectable 40km and range of AKASH-NG should be a solid 100km. Should be easily doable now that drdo is also researching and I believe achieved higher impulse rocket motors. I dare say that a second kind of interceptor much like BARAK8 ER added to AKASH NG system with range upto 150km to it, atleast to Army version. Should be able to deter the employment of enemy Jet power to a large extent in forward tactical areas.

I know there is the XRSAM you'll talk about but they are limited in number, often the target of long range vectors and very expensive. There will be leakages. A single system loss could mean the deterence value drops a whole lot if backup shorter range systems are not good. Afaik, Army Air defense is not mature enough for XRSAM, they just recently graduated to 70km MRSAM last year itself, from their capped Max of 25km Akash.

Anyway future ground based air defense should combine training of AF and Army as joint training command. A perfect scenario would be our jets able to use our SAM umbrella to their advantage, worst being frequent blue on blue attacks.

Copied Sparrow in the box

Copied Sparrow not in the box

Same missile, but with clipped wings. Importantly 4 ready to launch vs 2 ready to launch missiles even though base is same.

 

[thebakofbakchod]

Off topic, but what is happening with the TF-X? seems like first flight is being pushed back every week and they are suddenly doing everything to get more western jets. Was it a dud from the beginning?

 

[Arjun Mk1A]

Off topic, but what is happening with the TF-X? seems like first flight is being pushed back every week and they are suddenly doing everything to get more western jets. Was it a dud from the beginning?

Looks like USA and West decided to give dhanda

 

[Blood+]

I accept, but I was talking about the land-attack version. I was wondering what kind of moving structure on land can become a target to Brahmos, which could have been otherwise targeted by Rudram if it was not a mobile one. Further I was doubting, since Rudram is a quasi-ballistic missile with mid-way guidance possible, can it become a cost-effective alternative to Brahmos land-attack version. Anyways, thanks to some of our esteemed members for enlightening answers.

No one's ever gonna use a 4 mil usd worth of missile at a moving ground target, so might as well stop your thought experiment now.

 

[Haldilal]

Ya'll Nibbiars The HF 25.

 

[Super Flanker]

Chennai based Garuda Aerospace launches 'Droni', Personal drone for photography enthusiasts at Rs 85,000.

I think Indian private sector based companies can easily replace Chinese origin Quadcopter drones from the Indian market by acting as an Indian indigenous substitute for cheap Chinese Quadcopters. Chinese products have a very strong hold in the Indian civil market primarily because of the fact that they are cheap, and I conclude this from my own personal experience.

 

[NoobWannaLearn]

Chennai based Garuda Aerospace launches 'Droni', Personal drone for photography enthusiasts at Rs 85,000.

I think Indian private sector based companies can easily replace Chinese origin Quadcopter drones from the Indian market by acting as an Indian indigenous substitute for cheap Chinese Quadcopters. Chinese products have a very strong hold in the Indian civil market primarily because of the fact that they are cheap, and I conclude this from my own personal experience.

Bhai ye Chinese hi he exact copy paste of Chinese drone and more expensive.

 

[karn]

Bhai ye Chinese hi he exact copy paste of Chinese drone and more expensive.

DJI mini pro3 goes for 95k plus atleast . So you aren't correct for the price . And I encourage our companies to out cheeni the cheenis .. do you think the Chinese lost any sleep when they copied western stuff ? I'm happy some drone company is trying to get revenue out of the civilian market as opposed to sitting around for MOD orders.

 

[IndianHawk]

Bhai ye Chinese hi he exact copy paste of Chinese drone and more expensive.

First copy paste then start building your own slowly. That's the way Chinese build everything.

 

[shiphone]

???
actually these are two different projects....the history was very complicated. but Long Story Short:

HQ-61: the first Gen mediun range SAM and used to be coded as HQ-41 which started in 1960s. after the limited commision of HQ-61, the R&D team was struggling with defects and here came the improved varient- HQ-63 for better performace.

the missile in above pic is used to be named as 'HQ-64' and this is the one actaully related to so called Sparrow missile. the R&D team was the general contractor of the air launced BVR missile project (PL-11) which was based on imported Italian ASPIDE missile in 1980s. then this new missile(missil only) was introduced into the Surface-to-Air defence systems(land based and naval varients).and then HQ-63 development work was terminated.

so these are two missilses of different Dimensions and Weights....

BTW...the 'huge' canister of naval HQ-61...lol

HQ-61's '+ X' wing-fin layout

Copied Sparrow in the boxView attachment 239404
View attachment 239406
Copied Sparrow not in the boxView attachment 239405

Same missile, but with clipped wings. Importantly 4 ready to launch vs 2 ready to launch missiles even though base is same.

 

[NoobWannaLearn]

DJI mini pro3 goes for 95k plus atleast . So you aren't correct for the price . And I encourage our companies to out cheeni the cheenis .. do you think the Chinese lost any sleep when they copied western stuff ? I'm happy some drone company is trying to get revenue out of the civilian market as opposed to sitting around for MOD orders.

Both the drones have significant differences and DJI mini is smalleer I am all for if u start copying and then building but this company doesn't even copy just orders kits from Ali express and slaps a made in India sticker no effort at all and been doing that for a while now at start I would give them a pass yea it's new company tryna build something now that they have investement and even dhoni as an investor for more than a year and instead of r&d you come up with this? Where did all the money go then.?


See for yourself,now you have had experience+ money both so what will be the excuse now.