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Johny_Baba

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I read on wiki DRDO Koraput plant has produced 150 RD-33 engines, however we just have some 90 Mig 29s in service across IAF and IN, hope they put these excess engines to use
that wiki thing is a mess of its own,
because
> We got RD-33 series 3 engine manufacturing here, by the time we got that part for ~150 units of engines Tejas had already been given F-404
> We use RD-33MK engine on Mig-29K, it's said to be much better engine than original RD-33 with a bit of more thrust and better output, better service life and all
AND YET in various CAG reports both RD-33 Series 3 and RD-33MK were blasted for having reliability issues, even Su-30MKI's Al-31F was once criticised
So there you have it, even with manufacturing thing here overall performance of ruusi engine is just like this

AND YET those chinis seems to have made up their mind over being atmanirbhar than being dependent and copied the hell out of them, trying to improvise on base engine whenever and wherever possible;

and result is there are more JF-17 and chini copies of Sukhois and all flying around than us; heck they are even planning to power their FC-31 copy of F-35 with their improvised fork of copy of RD-33 duh 🤷‍♂️

in short RD-33 derivatives for Tejas could have been done with great amount of efforts but we've come much far away from taking that chance now and starting with zero
 

Crazywithmath

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30 MQ9 for US$ 3.5 billion was anyway expensive; why on earth would the US screw that deal over a random piggie like Pannun? And Boeing is not in a great shape - why kill a golden goose (by halting p8l procurement)? Makes no sense. Either we are missing some key details or Shukla is selling his usual BS.
 

shade

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30 MQ9 for US$ 3.5 billion was anyway expensive; why on earth would the US screw that deal over a random piggie like Pannun? And Boeing is not in a great shape - why kill a golden goose (by halting p8l procurement)? Makes no sense. Either we are missing some key details or Shukla is selling his usual BS.
The whole Pannu drama is just to get leverage over us using said drama as an excuse to deny us procurement of their start spangled gear.
Pannu is a CIA asset, he barks confidently knowing he has #PhullSappotSaar from his burger-munching masters.

However i expected this to impact the GE engine deal, not this Predator deal that is a full scam and would be OTOH profitable for the US with little risk to them.
 

Crazywithmath

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The whole Pannu drama is just to get leverage over us using said drama as an excuse to deny us procurement of their start spangled gear.
Even if true, why MQ 9, of all? Are they retarded? And halting P 8I procurement? While simultaneously letting Boeing set up components manufacturing plants in India? Too many loose ends.

Pannu is a CIA asset, he barks confidently knowing he has #PhullSappotSaar from his burger-munching masters.
Possible.

However i expected this to impact the GE engine deal, not this Predator deal that is a full scam and would be OTOH profitable for the US with little risk to them.
That's what I am trying to point out. GEwallahs were singing bhajans of India as recently as a month back and it makes little sense to screw the MQ 9 deal which is anyway too damn expensive and widely seen as appeasement tactics to please Uncle Sam.

As per Alpha Defense;


But then again, the Wire article itself claims,

Contacted for comments on the delayed approvals for the drone deal, the US State Department said: “We do not comment on arms sales until we have formally notified [the US] Congress,”.
The embassy spokesperson cannot confirm or deny it either.

Not to forget that the details of the assassination attempt of that Khali pig are pure BS;

US federal prosecutors allege that Gupta had promised $100,000 to an FBI agent posing as a hitman to kill Pannun in New York.
 

shade

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Even if true, why MQ 9, of all? Are they retarded? And halting P 8I procurement? While simultaneously letting Boeing set up components manufacturing plants in India? Too many loose ends.
Yes, this is what is fishy, the cost to procure unarmed Predators is inflated af because it's a bribe to Uncle Sam, so why will Uncle Sam do such a self-goal?

Also Pannu is a CIA asset, it's not "possible", that's why he has Yoo Ess citizenship, same as that gandu Siddharth Varandirajan who heads TheLiar.in which employs Chuklaji who wrote that article.
It's also why the real unknown gunmen have avoided him, and the assassination plot is all fiction by Uncle Sam.


Engine cock-blocking would make sense because gora gandus know our Tejas, Tejas mk2/Orca/TEDBF jo bhi, AMCA all depend on those precious GE engines.

This predator deal stonewalling doesn't make sense, because it favored the US and not us, we lose nothing and save a lot of $$$ if we don't buy their overpriced sht.
 

Crazywithmath

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Chuklaji who wrote that article.
Attributed the whole of the report to a 'highly placed' establishment source. Given his and his employer's (Wire) past track records - every single 'sutro se pata chala' type articles should be dealt with utmost caution.

But, assuming there is at least some truth to these 'leaks', it is a major major self goal from Uncle Sam.
 

Azaad

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If true I say blessing in disguise uncle Sam wanna do arm twisting fuck them.
If true this is the warning shot across the bow . I suspect things will get worse as there's no way in hell GoI'd accept US's demands without being accused of capitulation. Meanwhile , this is BAD NEWS for the GE F - 404 TFs supplies.

I suspect this is why we're seeing movement in reviving the Kaveri TF program which otherwise would've followed the earlier schedule of certifying the Dry Thrust variant of the Kaveri on board the AURA / GHATAK UCAV before sanctioning the AFB version of it .

If anyone had any doubts about GE being slack about deliveries DELIBERATELY on orders placed in 2021 , this is it & not the nonsense GE's been bandying about that given low demand for the F - 404 TF , they can re-start the line only for ~ 20 odd nos per annum.

So what are the solutions ?

As of now quite a few -

We can explore the Israeli options for HALE drones though as the video makes clear , Israeli bargaining power is hugely compromised given their present situation . Hence there's no guarantee we'd get what we want from them .

We ought to kickstart a program involving the Pvt sector in this along with DRDO , only if need be , as far as involvement of the latter goes . While we may not get what we want or in time , this program is essential for the future development programs of such armaments.

In any case even if negotiations with Israel commence today by the time we wrap them up & issue an order it'd be a good 2-3 years if not later given the speed with which we move.

This in be turn begs the question if we're willing to wait , why not wait for the presidential elections towards the end of this year & hope the new incumbent takes a favorable view of the situation. Though this approach has its limitations as there's a strong lobby operating against us in DC .

I suspect even if the future administration is favourably disposed to us the State Department which has always adopted a hostile view of us will throw a wrench in the works , which in any case won't work in our favor if the present administration is returned to power which seems the likely scenario.

I'm afraid this leaves us with few options for the future . We ought to persist with the F - 404 procurement ( if it's still on the table ) for the Mk-1a as we don't have a choice . We've gone too far down the road to change course. This is where the Kaveri TF program comes into play .

If we can certify the AFB version in say 5-7 years , given the fact that GE would be supplying 20 nos per annum , our production capacity of the Mk-1a wouldn't exceed those nos. meaning we can equip the 97 nos Mk-1a to be ordered with the Kaveri , assuming mfg of the first lot of 83 nos are completed by 2029-30.

The downside of this move is we'd be mfg Mk-1a alongside the Mk-2 , the AMCA Mk-1 & the TEDBF. Which brings me to the next part of our dilemma. What do we do with the Mk-2 program & its successors the AMCA Mk-1 & the TEDBF ?

I think given the US stance , its past record & the paucity of choices , the only party which can deliver what we want is the French. I don't see the Russians as an option even now as they'd have been the first we'd have approached if we really were interested in their TFs way before we approached the US which was in the 1980s when Indira Gandhi first broached the subject with the Ronald Reagan administration which was later taken to fruition under the Rajiv Gandhi administration.

If we haven't done so even during the worst time ever in our relationship in the aftermath of the Pokhran 2 tests & stayed the course , that should tell you what the establishment & the IAF think of the Russian TFs especially the RD-33 & its various derivatives.

This is in turn vastly increases the bargaining power of the French but we don't have a choice . Moreover given the shabby treatment the French have received courtesy AUKUS & the Aussie submarine procurement plan , they wouldn't be susceptible to US pressure. In fact quite the opposite they'd be anxious to get back at the Anglos.

The first order of business given the depleting squadron strength & the fact that we won't get more than 20 Mk-1a per annum if at all , should open the eyes of the bhosadiwale babudom in the MoD & the dhotis - their political bosses (who even otherwise have shown themselves rarely competent to run anything above a Zilla Parishad leave alone a state) would be to urgently expedite the order for the remaining 2 squadrons of Rafales increasing them to 3 , club it with the IN order & get Dassault to establish a line in MIHAN that too on priority besides expediting the MRFA tender & seeing it to fruition ASAP.

The next order of business would be to sign that goddamn deal for the development of the 120-130 KN TF with SAFRAN ASAP & get their help in developing the F - 414 equivalent to power the Mk-2 & it's successor programs. This is easier said than done as the entire design parameters of the Mk-2 would undergo some change from the superficial to the significant .

OTOH I don't see much of an issue with SAFRAN as they've already developed such a derivative of the M-88 which is due to go into the Rafales during their MLU which would go along with the F-5 upgrades towards the end of this decade . But all this is contingent on how fast MoD move their black stinky hairy backsides on concluding the agreement for the JV with SAFRAN for the 130 KN TF .

Another important point is the mfg ToT we were supposed to get courtesy GE by way of the F - 414 to be mfgd locally out here. We'd need a similar agreement with SAFRAN to go with their M-88 derivatives which'd power the Mk-2 & the successor programs to be mfgd out here .

GoI needs to AT LEAST commence talks with France on the above topics & make as much as they can out of a bad situation by presenting France with a once in a lifetime package deal , while awaiting the results of the Presidential elections towards the end of the year .
 

Master Chief

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Even if true, why MQ 9, of all? Are they retarded? And halting P 8I procurement? While simultaneously letting Boeing set up components manufacturing plants in India? Too many loose ends.
Uska bhi waat lagega probably..
When a relationship as big as Indo-US sours, the sourness takes time to permeate all aspects.. Many things keep moving forward out of sheer momentum, until one day the forward momentum halts..

The poison has entered with the Predators.. it will possibly spread to Boeing and GE Engine's as well..
 

NoobWannaLearn

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If true this is the warning shot across the bow . I suspect things will get worse as there's no way in hell GoI'd accept US's demands without being accused of capitulation. Meanwhile , this is BAD NEWS for the GE F - 404 TFs supplies.

I suspect this is why we're seeing movement in reviving the Kaveri TF program which otherwise would've followed the earlier schedule of certifying the Dry Thrust variant of the Kaveri on board the AURA / GHATAK UCAV before sanctioning the AFB version of it .

If anyone had any doubts about GE being slack about deliveries DELIBERATELY on orders placed in 2021 , this is it & not the nonsense GE's been bandying about that given low demand for the F - 404 TF , they can re-start the line only for ~ 20 odd nos per annum.

So what are the solutions ?

As of now quite a few -

We can explore the Israeli options for HALE drones though as the video makes clear , Israeli bargaining power is hugely compromised given their present situation . Hence there's no guarantee we'd get what we want from them .

We ought to kickstart a program involving the Pvt sector in this along with DRDO , only if need be , as far as involvement of the latter goes . While we may not get what we want or in time , this program is essential for the future development programs of such armaments.

In any case even if negotiations with Israel commence today by the time we wrap them up & issue an order it'd be a good 2-3 years if not later given the speed with which we move.

This in be turn begs the question if we're willing to wait , why not wait for the presidential elections towards the end of this year & hope the new incumbent takes a favorable view of the situation. Though this approach has its limitations as there's a strong lobby operating against us in DC .

I suspect even if the future administration is favourably disposed to us the State Department which has always adopted a hostile view of us will throw a wrench in the works , which in any case won't work in our favor if the present administration is returned to power which seems the likely scenario.

I'm afraid this leaves us with few options for the future . We ought to persist with the F - 404 procurement ( if it's still on the table ) for the Mk-1a as we don't have a choice . We've gone too far down the road to change course. This is where the Kaveri TF program comes into play .

If we can certify the AFB version in say 5-7 years , given the fact that GE would be supplying 20 nos per annum , our production capacity of the Mk-1a wouldn't exceed those nos. meaning we can equip the 97 nos Mk-1a to be ordered with the Kaveri , assuming mfg of the first lot of 83 nos are completed by 2029-30.

The downside of this move is we'd be mfg Mk-1a alongside the Mk-2 , the AMCA Mk-1 & the TEDBF. Which brings me to the next part of our dilemma. What do we do with the Mk-2 program & its successors the AMCA Mk-1 & the TEDBF ?

I think given the US stance , its past record & the paucity of choices , the only party which can deliver what we want is the French. I don't see the Russians as an option even now as they'd have been the first we'd have approached if we really were interested in their TFs way before we approached the US which was in the 1980s when Indira Gandhi first broached the subject with the Ronald Reagan administration which was later taken to fruition under the Rajiv Gandhi administration.

If we haven't done so even during the worst time ever in our relationship in the aftermath of the Pokhran 2 tests & stayed the course , that should tell you what the establishment & the IAF think of the Russian TFs especially the RD-33 & its various derivatives.

This is in turn vastly increases the bargaining power of the French but we don't have a choice . Moreover given the shabby treatment the French have received courtesy AUKUS & the Aussie submarine procurement plan , they wouldn't be susceptible to US pressure. In fact quite the opposite they'd be anxious to get back at the Anglos.

The first order of business given the depleting squadron strength & the fact that we won't get more than 20 Mk-1a per annum if at all , should open the eyes of the bhosadiwale babudom in the MoD & the dhotis - their political bosses (who even otherwise have shown themselves rarely competent to run anything above a Zilla Parishad leave alone a state) would be to urgently expedite the order for the remaining 2 squadrons of Rafales increasing them to 3 , club it with the IN order & get Dassault to establish a line in MIHAN that too on priority besides expediting the MRFA tender & seeing it to fruition ASAP.

The next order of business would be to sign that goddamn deal for the development of the 120-130 KN TF with SAFRAN ASAP & get their help in developing the F - 414 equivalent to power the Mk-2 & it's successor programs. This is easier said than done as the entire design parameters of the Mk-2 would undergo some change from the superficial to the significant .

OTOH I don't see much of an issue with SAFRAN as they've already developed such a derivative of the M-88 which is due to go into the Rafales during their MLU which would go along with the F-5 upgrades towards the end of this decade . But all this is contingent on how fast MoD move their black stinky hairy backsides on concluding the agreement for the JV with SAFRAN for the 130 KN TF .

Another important point is the mfg ToT we were supposed to get courtesy GE by way of the F - 414 to be mfgd locally out here. We'd need a similar agreement with SAFRAN to go with their M-88 derivatives which'd power the Mk-2 & the successor programs to be mfgd out here .

GoI needs to AT LEAST commence talks with France on the above topics & make as much as they can out of a bad situation by presenting France with a once in a lifetime package deal , while awaiting the results of the Presidential elections towards the end of the year .

This pretty much confirms Its fake I trust him somewhat
 

Azaad

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This pretty much confirms Its fake I trust him somewhat
The news was suspect but not entirely without foundation. The US given the recent relationship with us will not cancel any such program but can definitely be expected to create all manner of impediments including delaying tactics as much as possible & non co operation as far as ToT goes for everything that's been agreed upon earlier as per the terms of the agreement , which sort of still renders relevant whatever I've posted before this post .
 

Anupu

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This pretty much confirms Its fake I trust him somewhat
Alpha defence with Ajai Shukla. With wire is tadka what did you guys expected.

US is stretching itself thin day by day. It’s in its interest to shore up allies and friends that being said there are dumbasses in American administration who would want exactly this. In the worst case scenario we will lease or buy some eitans and build a hale UAV on our own. The only challenge would be the bandwidth of the satcom datalink.

does anyone know what was the transfer rates for tapas satcom.
 

shade

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This pretty much confirms Its fake I trust him somewhat
It's fake because of the retardedness of it all.
We haven't paid them the $3 billion and awaiting delivery or something like that, so they'd be leaving ez money.

The Amerimutts may be woke but they aren't stupid.

What realistically happens is they either delay or stop the F404 engine supplies and once the Predator contract is inked and payments are made, THEN they dick us over with some garbage excuse.

Y'all nibbiars may remember the chimpout over Turki buying S400, which led them to be booted out the F35 program?
The US still hasn't returned them the money they paid for the F35s :bplease:

Rule of Law for thee, but not for me :rage:
 

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