DRDO, PSU and Private Defence Sector News

[raju1982]

DM Parrikar was rare em. He had background of an engineer and also as an industrialist. He knew what are the right questions to be asked to forces and DPSU. Both were pulled and encouraged. Its because of his small yet effective stint LCA is seeing light of the day in the services.

Merely having a person with technocrat background is not going to solve issue. Had that been case - Kejriwal and J ramesh would have shone in their stint.

Lastly our defence procurement suffers because of fickle and short sighted nature of planning and procurement dept of Forces. But all the buck stops at PMO(all of them) - who simply like to leverage each and every requirement of forces (which cant be fulfilled within) by breaking them into piece meal requirements and then going into lengthy quagmire of process of tenders,discussions and negotiation tactics to win Diplomatic brownie points. Be it C17, Chinooks, Rafale,Scorpene .. everything is a piecemeal order.

Kejriwal and Ramesh are not defence minister and their ideologies are not aligned with India's ambitions. A technocrat with understandings of defence and problems in MoD should be made Defence Minister, not just a Yes man to Modi. S Jaishankar, a career diplomat doing wonderful job as FM.

 

[Chinmoy]

DM Parrikar was rare em. He had background of an engineer and also as an industrialist. He knew what are the right questions to be asked to forces and DPSU. Both were pulled and encouraged. Its because of his small yet effective stint LCA is seeing light of the day in the services.

Merely having a person with technocrat background is not going to solve issue. Had that been case - Kejriwal and J ramesh would have shone in their stint.

Lastly our defence procurement suffers because of fickle and short sighted nature of planning and procurement dept of Forces. But all the buck stops at PMO(all of them) - who simply like to leverage each and every requirement of forces (which cant be fulfilled within) by breaking them into piece meal requirements and then going into lengthy quagmire of process of tenders,discussions and negotiation tactics to win Diplomatic brownie points. Be it C17, Chinooks, Rafale,Scorpene .. everything is a piecemeal order.

Correct.

Job of a DM is to be bridge in between forces and ministries. No matter how much projects get launched on paper, if FM is not going to release fund, a Technocrat can't do anything.

But for some people, privatization and technocracy is solution t everything.

 

[Lonewarrior]

Kejriwal and Ramesh are not defence minister and their ideologies are not aligned with India's ambitions. A technocrat with understandings of defence and problems in MoD should be made Defence Minister, not just a Yes man to Modi. S Jaishankar, a career diplomat doing wonderful job as FM.

Exactly, now tell him to do so
[email protected]

 

[Chinmoy]

Thats similar argument put by pakis after Chandrayaan launch! Just like you, your theory has expired as soon as you opened your mouth. A technocrat will move things forward, will reduce red tapes and will understand requirements and importance of submarines in a modern navy.

After putting so much links and facts, if you think I am putting one liner, thn why do we say pakis are idiots

Late MP couldn't even convince IN to consider follow on order of 3 Scorpene under P75. But RS did it.

So don't mind me saying this, but you could roll on your theory and shove it deep into your..............

 

[raju1982]

Late MP couldn't even convince IN to consider follow on order of 3 Scorpene under P75. But RS did it.

So don't mind me saying this, but you could roll on your theory and shove it deep into your..............

Navy did it because they had no other options. MP left defmin even before 1st Scorpene was commissioned.

Also dont mind me saying this, if your were not born out of ......., you could have understood this easily.

 

[raju1982]

Exactly, now tell him to do so
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The perfect happiness of arguing with clowns is that they cannot put logic instead of verbal vomiting which actually exposes them. After hitting so many pakis on point blank range on peedeeff, it is no less joy to show some of the desi chaapris their places.

 

[Azaad]

Project - 75 (I) is an old requirement doing the rounds since 2007 if not earlier . The IN envisaged a two step plan for SSKs before branching out into Design Development & Mfg of an indigenous class of SSKs.

MP recommended extension of Scorpene contract to IN who declined it for their own reasons. Right now we're back to 2016 with renewal of the Scorpene contract & have just about kick started the procurement process for the Project - 75 (I).

That's the long & short of it .

 

[NoobWannaLearn]

 

[Lonewarrior]

The perfect happiness of arguing with clowns is that they cannot put logic instead of verbal vomiting which actually exposes them. After hitting so many pakis on point blank range on peedeeff, it is no less joy to show some of the desi chaapris their places.

Hey Raju, just went through some 60 or so messages of yours on this forum...sadly found nothing quite serious Buddy
> most of them were random rants on Pakistan or politics threads
> here on DRDO thread you mostly whine on how things could have been done better without realising all the constraints and problems there are like wishing RM to be some all knowing - all doing Elon Musk type guy. You also said something about making a defence personnel RM, which is hilarious given we all know the conflict between tri services
> and ya, you posted an image from internet here in this thread which was incidentally made by one member here

Can't see how you get this much confidence to say you show people their places. Nothing substantial you have, neither you seem to bring anything useful to the table Mate...just an 40yo dude unhappy with his life ranting and whining here in this virtual place far away from reality

 

[raju1982]

Thanks for details.

Project - 75 (I) is an old requirement doing the rounds since 2007 if not earlier . The IN envisaged a two step plan for SSKs before branching out into Design Development & Mfg of an indigenous class of SSKs.

MP recommended extension of Scorpene contract to IN who declined it for their own reasons. Right now we're back to 2016 with renewal of the Scorpene contract & have just about kick started the procurement process for the Project - 75 (I).

That's the long & short of it .

MP understood lengthy Indian submarine procurement process. So according to that reccomended 3 extra Kalvari class but IN wanted something else. and I think we need DefMin like him.

 

[raju1982]

Hey Raju, just went through some 60 or so messages of yours on this forum...sadly found nothing quite serious Buddy
> most of them were random rants on Pakistan or politics threads
> here on DRDO thread you mostly whine on how things could have been done better without realising all the constraints and problems there are like wishing RM to be some all knowing - all doing Elon Musk type guy. You also said something about making a defence personnel RM, which is hilarious given we all know the conflict between tri services
> and ya, you posted an image from internet here in this thread which was incidentally made by one member here

Can't see how you get this much confidence to say you show people their places. Nothing substantial you have, neither you seem to bring anything useful to the table Mate...just an 40yo dude unhappy with his life ranting and whining here in this virtual place far away from reality

Thanks for going through my posts and giving a thought about explaining my character!

Yeah, i was 'whining' for long time about pakis having AIM-120C5 and our mainstay R77 was no match and Astra should be inducted ASAP with priority. we saw the result of Su-30 vs F-16 scenario in 2019. Our brave piolts saved the day. But Our DefMinister had to run to Moscow for newer missiles. Which could have avoided if we starting noticing the whinings! lol

Dude, if you have to argue with someone put facts, not personal insults, there are more dangerous things can be returned to you. Remember this when you do the same in future. For example, Pakis thought they are martial races because they keep guns in houses and kills random local people till few gentle Indians shown them their places 'gently' in many wars.

 

[Azaad]

Thanks for details.

MP understood lengthy Indian submarine procurement process. So according to that reccomended 3 extra Kalvari class but IN wanted something else. and I think we need DefMin like him.

There was no money basically which is why MP recommended the IN go in for 3 nos additional Scorpenes. Besides fat chance MoD would sanction another submarine procurement before the previous process was completed. The other armed services would've definitely protested strongly.

IN wasn't comfortable coz for one there was the trust factor of whether MoD would then continue with IN's plan for Project - 75 (I) & secondly there were miffed with Naval Group for their shenanigans. To add to it came the leaks about Scorpene submarines in an Aussie newspaper. Don't recall if it was during MP's tenure or later .

More than a technocrat or dyed in the wool politician you require an armed forces personnel to take over as RM but before that you need more integration between the civilian military bureaucracy at the MoD. The way the Pentagon is structured should be a good example to follow.

Finally we're moving into a highly specialised world where all these bureaucrats selected on the basis of top scores in history & geography ought to be trained & relegated to posts like district collector & thereabouts.

We need a technically qualified bureaucracy specialising in a particular set of skills relevant to a ministry besides being exclusively attached to it & who've spent enough time there to understand the labyrinthine nature of the workings of bureaucracy in that respective Ministry to maximize results. What's more this is needed in most if not all ministries.

 

[samsaptaka]

MRFA is dead, it is a sick joke GoI is playing on the Airforce like a dangling carrot in front of the donkey. We are going for LCA Mk1A and belated LCA Mk2 as our mainstay in Airforce.

If GoI was even 1% serious about entertaining the MRFA plan they would have done it before, or at least together with the Navy's carrier-based jet plan.

LOL , MRFA is a sick joke by IAF gernails who categorically refused to place orders for follow on rafales and keep seeing day dreams of gold plated shiny new toys. Not GoI's fault in this case.

 

[Tactical Doge]

Exactly, now tell him to do so
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Shiiet

Mail id badalna padega ab

 

[samsaptaka]

Hmm you noticed something? These weren't stuck in pipeline for 2 years or in aon for 3 years ? Quite shocking

Because its for the top gernails to travel in, not related to the average jawan you see ? Hence no red tape, no GoI interference, no delays. But when it comes to equipping our soldiers with nvg, decent plate carriers, helmets etc....things move more slowly or rather not at all...

 

[samsaptaka]

Most probably no; it looks like an EoTech EXPS sight
View attachment 216210
If you zoom a bit you can find the EoTech logo too. It's faint, but it's there
View attachment 216211
If this indeed made by OFB then it's the epitome of Screwdriver-giri where they simply scratched all the painted logos and put there own. And didn't even bother to do something with the logos that were carved in the aluminium body, simply left them as it's

I am at that stage where it doesn't matter to me anymore, just order 2L of these and give every soldier a damned opteekal sight for fks sake !

 

[samsaptaka]

IDRW ! How 'soon' till it enters production ? Has it been tested on Prachand ? If not why not ? Why so slow? IA just looking for excuses to kill prachand and these babus keep moving slow like snails, sometimes I think top gernails give bribes to babus to keep projects running slow so they can import till death

 

[Lonewarrior]

I am at that stage where it doesn't matter to me anymore, just order 2L of these and give every soldier a damned opteekal sight for fks sake !

Well that's where the whole problem of Screwdriver-giri comes in. You buy foreign, it's expensive and you don't learn how to make one. And when you make one, it's more expensive but you learn how to make so in future it becomes cheaper. But when you do something like this then it's more expensive than making one and you still don't learn how to make one.

You can't imagine the kind of price OFB would demand for such sight.

 

[ezsasa]

Thanks for going through my posts and giving a thought about explaining my character!

Yeah, i was 'whining' for long time about pakis having AIM-120C5 and our mainstay R77 was no match and Astra should be inducted ASAP with priority. we saw the result of Su-30 vs F-16 scenario in 2019. Our brave piolts saved the day. But Our DefMinister had to run to Moscow for newer missiles. Which could have avoided if we starting noticing the whinings! lol

Dude, if you have to argue with someone put facts, not personal insults, there are more dangerous things can be returned to you. Remember this when you do the same in future. For example, Pakis thought they are martial races because they keep guns in houses and kills random local people till few gentle Indians shown them their places 'gently' in many wars.

keep it technical for this thread, you may use chit chat for non-technical aspects of your commentary. leeway is given to members on non-technical threads, not on technical threads.

 

[AnantS]

Kejriwal and Ramesh are not defence minister and their ideologies are not aligned with India's ambitions. A technocrat with understandings of defence and problems in MoD should be made Defence Minister, not just a Yes man to Modi. S Jaishankar, a career diplomat doing wonderful job as FM.

S jaishankar was an IFS and groomed as minister under Sushma. Technocrat /Democrat/Autocrat anyone can become a good defence minister if:
a) Understands need for local defence industry but also understands critical needs of forces.
b) Establishes rapport with PMO, Finance Min, Def and DSPU.
c)Hirez good men from both defence sector, Tech/dspu sector and from Finance- which help them in understanding needs of dpsu and def forces. Helps in establishing
cordination among two and most importantly tackling through budgetary hoola hoops.
d) has the common sense of knowing when to put foot down.