DRDO, PSU and Private Defence Sector News

[Blood+]

A tracked Self Propelled gatling gun - something like the M163.
View attachment 200993

But we dont have anything like this - so, I'll take the Sudarshan

Or something like this -

I know we don't have an equivalent, but this is something that should be worked on.

 

[flanker99]

Or something like this -

I know we don't have an equivalent, but this is something that should be worked on.

we bought phalanx ciws with ins jalaswa which has now ben replaced with ak630..should have copied that thing

 

[Blood+]

we bought phalanx ciws with ins jalaswa which has now ben replaced with ak630..should have copied that thing

True. But even the AK-630 can be repurposed if there is the will. Although the Phalanx would be preferable for a land based CIWS since it's lighter and less bulky.

 

[mist_consecutive]

 

[Lonewarrior]

To isse pehle kya bina umbilical nikaale hi maarte the kya!?
Umbilical Guided Air to Air Missile!?

 

[Blood+]

To isse pehle kya bina umbilical nikaale hi maarte the kya!?
Umbilical Guided Air to Air Missile!?

Yep, like a torpedo!!

 

[Corvus Splendens]

Or something like this -

I know we don't have an equivalent, but this is something that should be worked on.

The penny pinchers today will take one look at it's fire rate and say no. 40mm rounds with flechettes are cheaper.

 

[Lonewarrior]

It's so tough to keep up with this thread, subah log aaram se armour thickness pe ladte hain aur pata nai achanak se dopahar hote hote saale CIWS pe ladne lagte hain

Anyways @Blood+ @Aniruddha Mulay @SwordOfDarkness @Fatalis @ezsasa @binayak95 here's few points

- as for fast firing small calibre vs slow firing high calibre thing is concerned; always go for slow firing high calibre; like 40mm l/70 in this case. Why? Because a single air-bursting round of 40mm can deal the same damage as multiple HE rounds of 30mm. The best gun based CIWS currently available is Oerlikon's AHEAD air-burst rounds, coz despite being only 35mm calibre it covers a much bigger area than HE ones.
Furthermore, a 40mm shell has bigger volume so you can add things like proximity fuze or may be guidance system in future and still retain sufficient space for HE warhead. In case of smaller calibre, things are not that easy. Remember the air-bursting XM-25? Because of adding all the electronic systems in that 25mm shell the explosive got reduced; ultimately making it under-powered.

- Now coming to C-RAM vs our very own C-Tanki. The AK-630 is a pretty self contained system; it only draws electricity, water for cooling, pneumatic - hydraulics lines and signal from radar...all the other things are built into it. And not just other things, but most importantly; Soviet era old and bulky other things.
We could have easily made something way better than us Phalanx based C-RAM; coz remember 30mm>20mm. We could have slowed it down to 3,000 RPM and removed the whole water based barrel cooling system, newer SMD based electronic in place of old tubes, electromechanical drives in place of hydro-pneumatic...and perhaps most important, ammunition management. Ever wondered why that AK-630 module looks so humongous? We'll because it's hollow inside so that empty shells can be dumped inside it, someone can enter to remove them and obviously someone can enter to load the ammo. But these are not required in a land based system; you can easily dump empty shells in the open as you don't have the hazard of any FOD damage like in ships.
But even this little common sense was way too much for our engineers and they simply put it as it is.

- Sudarshan is good but not so good. Just look at an ordinary l/70 Bofors and think what'll happen if you cover it with big plates...it will look like Sudarshan. If your objective is to make a ISIS level makeshift CIWS then it's fine, but something more then there's few problems. Ammo handling and capacity will always be low, traverse and elevations will be sub-par coz you simply replaced old drives with motors, automation would be low

Ab lado achhe se

 

[flanker99]

 

[Blood+]

It's so tough to keep up with this thread, subah log aaram se armour thickness pe ladte hain aur pata nai achanak se dopahar hote hote saale CIWS pe ladne lagte hain

Anyways @Blood+ @Aniruddha Mulay @SwordOfDarkness @Fatalis @ezsasa @binayak95 here's few points

- as for fast firing small calibre vs slow firing high calibre thing is concerned; always go for slow firing high calibre; like 40mm l/70 in this case. Why? Because a single air-bursting round of 40mm can deal the same damage as multiple HE rounds of 30mm. The best gun based CIWS currently available is Oerlikon's AHEAD air-burst rounds, coz despite being only 35mm calibre it covers a much bigger area than HE ones.
Furthermore, a 40mm shell has bigger volume so you can add things like proximity fuze or may be guidance system in future and still retain sufficient space for HE warhead. In case of smaller calibre, things are not that easy. Remember the air-bursting XM-25? Because of adding all the electronic systems in that 25mm shell the explosive got reduced; ultimately making it under-powered.

- Now coming to C-RAM vs our very own C-Tanki. The AK-630 is a pretty self contained system; it only draws electricity, water for cooling, pneumatic - hydraulics lines and signal from radar...all the other things are built into it. And not just other things, but most importantly; Soviet era old and bulky other things.
We could have easily made something way better than us Phalanx based C-RAM; coz remember 30mm>20mm. We could have slowed it down to 3,000 RPM and removed the whole water based barrel cooling system, newer SMD based electronic in place of old tubes, electromechanical drives in place of hydro-pneumatic...and perhaps most important, ammunition management. Ever wondered why that AK-630 module looks so humongous? We'll because it's hollow inside so that empty shells can be dumped inside it, someone can enter to remove them and obviously someone can enter to load the ammo. But these are not required in a land based system; you can easily dump empty shells in the open as you don't have the hazard of any FOD damage like in ships.
But even this little common sense was way too much for our engineers and they simply put it as it is.

- Sudarshan is good but not so good. Just look at an ordinary l/70 Bofors and think what'll happen if you cover it with big plates...it will look like Sudarshan. If your objective is to make a ISIS level makeshift CIWS then it's fine, but something more then there's few problems. Ammo handling and capacity will always be low, traverse and elevations will be sub-par coz you simply replaced old drives with motors, automation would be low

Ab lado achhe se

Arey lad kaun raha tha??!! Anyway, you are right.

 

[Lonewarrior]

What are the chances that there's a Chinese firefighting robot sitting comfortably inside that aTmAnIrBhAr tin shell...

 

[Aniruddha Mulay]

It's so tough to keep up with this thread, subah log aaram se armour thickness pe ladte hain aur pata nai achanak se dopahar hote hote saale CIWS pe ladne lagte hain

Anyways @Blood+ @Aniruddha Mulay @SwordOfDarkness @Fatalis @ezsasa @binayak95 here's few points

- as for fast firing small calibre vs slow firing high calibre thing is concerned; always go for slow firing high calibre; like 40mm l/70 in this case. Why? Because a single air-bursting round of 40mm can deal the same damage as multiple HE rounds of 30mm. The best gun based CIWS currently available is Oerlikon's AHEAD air-burst rounds, coz despite being only 35mm calibre it covers a much bigger area than HE ones.
Furthermore, a 40mm shell has bigger volume so you can add things like proximity fuze or may be guidance system in future and still retain sufficient space for HE warhead. In case of smaller calibre, things are not that easy. Remember the air-bursting XM-25? Because of adding all the electronic systems in that 25mm shell the explosive got reduced; ultimately making it under-powered.

- Now coming to C-RAM vs our very own C-Tanki. The AK-630 is a pretty self contained system; it only draws electricity, water for cooling, pneumatic - hydraulics lines and signal from radar...all the other things are built into it. And not just other things, but most importantly; Soviet era old and bulky other things.
We could have easily made something way better than us Phalanx based C-RAM; coz remember 30mm>20mm. We could have slowed it down to 3,000 RPM and removed the whole water based barrel cooling system, newer SMD based electronic in place of old tubes, electromechanical drives in place of hydro-pneumatic...and perhaps most important, ammunition management. Ever wondered why that AK-630 module looks so humongous? We'll because it's hollow inside so that empty shells can be dumped inside it, someone can enter to remove them and obviously someone can enter to load the ammo. But these are not required in a land based system; you can easily dump empty shells in the open as you don't have the hazard of any FOD damage like in ships.
But even this little common sense was way too much for our engineers and they simply put it as it is.

- Sudarshan is good but not so good. Just look at an ordinary l/70 Bofors and think what'll happen if you cover it with big plates...it will look like Sudarshan. If your objective is to make a ISIS level makeshift CIWS then it's fine, but something more then there's few problems. Ammo handling and capacity will always be low, traverse and elevations will be sub-par coz you simply replaced old drives with motors, automation would be low

Ab lado achhe se

The L&T posters for the Sudarshan CIWS tell a different story compared to your assumptions.
ISIS level makeshift CIWS definitely does not have FCR, Search radar and programmable ammo.
It seems to be a well integrated package to me.

 

[skunk works]

Thanks to Allah BDL didn't put the term 'Cum' in the same sentence with 'umbilical cord'.

 

[Lonewarrior]

The L&T posters for the Sudarshan CIWS tell a different story compared to your assumptions.
ISIS level makeshift CIWS definitely does not have FCR, Search radar and programmable ammo.
It seems to be a well integrated package to me.
View attachment 201005View attachment 201006

A dream...

Amiet dreaming on that dream...

A concept...

A realisation...

The harsh reality...

It's easy to say that a gun fires Vibranium core Adamantium bullet while designing it in old computer running expired AutoDesk but when you start building it then only you're met with the actual reality.

 

[SwordOfDarkness]

quick question, isn't perforation supposed to be harder than penetration? Since for perforation, the projectile has to penetrate the whole armour?

nope, you have it backwards. Penetration is projectile going through. Perforation is just the armour peices going through.

 

[flanker99]

What are the chances that there's a Chinese firefighting robot sitting comfortably inside that aTmAnIrBhAr tin shell...

That is a good question ..i wonder if there is any vetting by idex challenges to make sure products are result of inhouse r & d and not just repackaging

 

[SwordOfDarkness]

It's so tough to keep up with this thread, subah log aaram se armour thickness pe ladte hain aur pata nai achanak se dopahar hote hote saale CIWS pe ladne lagte hain

Anyways @Blood+ @Aniruddha Mulay @SwordOfDarkness @Fatalis @ezsasa @binayak95 here's few points

- as for fast firing small calibre vs slow firing high calibre thing is concerned; always go for slow firing high calibre; like 40mm l/70 in this case. Why? Because a single air-bursting round of 40mm can deal the same damage as multiple HE rounds of 30mm. The best gun based CIWS currently available is Oerlikon's AHEAD air-burst rounds, coz despite being only 35mm calibre it covers a much bigger area than HE ones.
Furthermore, a 40mm shell has bigger volume so you can add things like proximity fuze or may be guidance system in future and still retain sufficient space for HE warhead. In case of smaller calibre, things are not that easy. Remember the air-bursting XM-25? Because of adding all the electronic systems in that 25mm shell the explosive got reduced; ultimately making it under-powered.

- Now coming to C-RAM vs our very own C-Tanki. The AK-630 is a pretty self contained system; it only draws electricity, water for cooling, pneumatic - hydraulics lines and signal from radar...all the other things are built into it. And not just other things, but most importantly; Soviet era old and bulky other things.
We could have easily made something way better than us Phalanx based C-RAM; coz remember 30mm>20mm. We could have slowed it down to 3,000 RPM and removed the whole water based barrel cooling system, newer SMD based electronic in place of old tubes, electromechanical drives in place of hydro-pneumatic...and perhaps most important, ammunition management. Ever wondered why that AK-630 module looks so humongous? We'll because it's hollow inside so that empty shells can be dumped inside it, someone can enter to remove them and obviously someone can enter to load the ammo. But these are not required in a land based system; you can easily dump empty shells in the open as you don't have the hazard of any FOD damage like in ships.
But even this little common sense was way too much for our engineers and they simply put it as it is.

- Sudarshan is good but not so good. Just look at an ordinary l/70 Bofors and think what'll happen if you cover it with big plates...it will look like Sudarshan. If your objective is to make a ISIS level makeshift CIWS then it's fine, but something more then there's few problems. Ammo handling and capacity will always be low, traverse and elevations will be sub-par coz you simply replaced old drives with motors, automation would be low

Ab lado achhe se

I disagree. 40mm is not always good for everything. High rate of fire, even if small caliber is better for faster targets. Large caliber, even if low rate of fire is good for slower targets.

I would personally want to see a combo thing, but its engineering/logistical feasibility would be questionable.

2x20mm cannons coaxial with one 40mm cannon.

Can get ~1800 rpm when firing for high speed targets
And explosive spread of 40mm for slower/smaller/swarm targets.

Something like this

 

[skunk works]

BC kapda to maar lete exhibition se pehle.

 

[Lonewarrior]

I disagree. 40mm is not always good for everything. High rate of fire, even if small caliber is better for faster targets. Large caliber, even if low rate of fire is good for slower targets.

I would personally want to see a combo thing, but its engineering/logistical feasibility would be questionable.

2x20mm cannons coaxial with one 40mm cannon.

Can get ~1800 rpm when firing for high speed targets
And explosive spread of 40mm for slower/smaller/swarm targets.

Something like this

View attachment 201015

You can't do something like AHEAD in 20mm but a burst of 40mm AHEAD is going to rip a missile no matter how fast it is

 

[binayak95]

What are the chances that there's a Chinese firefighting robot sitting comfortably inside that aTmAnIrBhAr tin shell...

Its a good product that i have seen up close, its not chinese.