DRDO, PSU and Private Defence Sector News

[Corvus Splendens]

Issue of Indian t90 at 5:45

We should've stopped at the T-72 and not go for this thing in 2000-2001. Now the fleet is big and the parts ecosystem even bigger.

The AMX-56 should've been picked instead. Just like more Mirage-2000s should've been ordered instead of Mig-29.

 

[Rassil Krishnan]

Per capita logic doesn't make sense with the size of our economy. Just look at the amount of money spent on doles. Look at the amount of money left unspent by IA and IAF. A fraction of that could be going into a couple testbeds and other infrastructure. 3000Cr was the total amount spent till now on engines, laughable. Not sure if the Research org isn't asking or the Gov't isn't sanctioning though.

only correct point is about unused funds in the army. however that is for procurement, not research. i don't like dole politics, but that is a different subject.

 

[Aniruddha Mulay]

What a stupid argument.

The Gas Turbine engines will appear the same way as they appeared for America, Russian, EU or China. By investing in testing infrastructure for developing such Engines.

How the hell would you develop the knowledge if you don't even have the means to test & refine you design.

GTRE director has said that we are the only country in the World to have to send our Gas Turbine engines to foreign shores for testing. Thus compromising the technical data by literally handing them over to Foreign entities.

You guys still have the stomach to defend the government, in the face of such utter incompetence.

I guess you are confusing Gas Turbine engines with engines meant to power fighter jets.
We need to send the Kaveri to Russia as we do not have a proper FTB to test the engine from.
On the other hand, Kaveri Marine Gas Turbine(KMGT) is tested at an Indian Navy facility in the country itself.

 

[Blademaster]

You think like, After seeing Billions of dollars money suddenly a flying engine will appear from sky and will say “Kyla Hukm hai mere Aka”

India need to develop initial knowledge first then we can go full fledged otherwise all money will be eaten up in name of development and years later you will come with frustration and cursing everyone.

China invested heavily in engine development from decades and just succeeded recently.

Its aviation industry started way back in the early 50s when Soviet trainers came to China and started training Chinese engineers on the know how and some know why. Chinese engineers and designers soon picked up the slack and started mass producing Soviet type planes over the centuries. They never stopped. And they never stopped trying reverse-engineering the engines and the planes' designs. They kept at it non stop and their persistence paid off. They produced these obsolete planes all the way up to the 90s and starting in the early 2000s they moved to try to develop more modern civilian planes and combat planes, iterating and improving each iteration until they reached the level of the western world somewhat. India never did that part. India kept trying to take the shortcuts and it didn't go anywhere.

 

[Vamsi]

@Vamsi @porky_kicker
Wanted to ask this a long time ago

Is ISRO TSTO and Avatar the same project or was Avatar changed to TSTO due to technological constraints and feasibility??

Both are different......AVATAR has no connection with ISRO....its DRDO project

 

[karn]

My 2 paisa on this whole issue.
The TATA group itself via TASL is the largest component manufacturer for Boeing and Airbus in India.
If it was in their benefit they would have added the manufacturing part in the deal if they wanted. As it is TASL will make a lot of money via this deal.. Lets be clear however TASL makes very miniscule components.
As per this current deal it is more about making an Indian airline company compete with Emirates airlines etc on the west asian routes which is a huge market being lost right now.

 

[karn]

With reference to my above post.

Tata Advanced Systems

The evolution of our enterprise, from the pioneering vision of Jamshed Ji tata to a leader among India's aerospace and defence players.

www.tataadvancedsystems.com

 

[Blademaster]

Lets be clear however TASL makes very miniscule components.

Do you consider making the vertical tail of the plane as very miniscule component?
See here:

As per this current deal it is more about making an Indian airline company compete with Emirates airlines etc on the west asian routes which is a huge market being lost right now.

Yes hell even the middle eastern airlines have taken over Indian routes that were given to Indian airlines but were forced to sell to the middle eastern airlines because of financial issues. We need to retake that market back and this purchase will definitely help take that market back from middle eastern airlines.

If any, the one who would be truly nervous about this deal would be the Emirates Airline, Qatar Airlines, and the others because it means that Air India under Tata are coming for their lunch.

 

[Daksh7390]

I guess you are confusing Gas Turbine engines with engines meant to power fighter jets.
We need to send the Kaveri to Russia as we do not have a proper FTB to test the engine from.
On the other hand, Kaveri Marine Gas Turbine(KMGT) is tested at an Indian Navy facility in the country itself.

I am not confusing anything with the other. I know exactly what I want to say, KMGT uses the same core as Kaveri Engine.

Could you provide more information on the capacity augmentation of the Gas Turbine Engine test facilities that has happened in the last 8 years. That would be more helpful.

As per as I have read from this very forum , our shortage as of last year are -

• Module level test facility - Fan & compressor test facility - current capacity 5.5 mW. Required capacity 20mW.
• Full Engine Test facility - available -90kN. Requirement 110-130kN.
• Containment Test facility
• High Altitude Test facility - requires 90mW power.
• High Air mass flow facility - for combustor, afterburner & turbine section (module level & full engine)
• Flying test bed.

The requirement for these facilities have been forwarded to MoD a long time back. And till date no grants have been sanctioned for the same.

What we are doing now is refurbishing the Projects that were a failure 10 years back, which is absolutely necessary.
But what about the capacity building for future platforms, if we don't start now we will be behind for the next 2 decades. The Defence secretary was clueless on the timeline for indigenous 110kN engine.

 

[NoobWannaLearn]

Agreed

 

[karn]

Do you consider making the vertical tail of the plane as very miniscule component?
See here:

It is actually a lot more than just the vertical tail . I have posted TASLs offerings above.

But yes it is miniscule if taken as a whole. they do not make the main structure for the wings neither the fuesalage.

I am the last person to take a swipe at TASL . Infact what they are doing is very creditable, getting certification and passing QC for even mundane stuff is a very complicated process . But we as a country are only now importing technology to weld aluminium train coaches .. Large aerospace structures like that of commercial planes is far away. Let's not even get into engines.

 

[Chinmoy]

10L for conference?
God bless us.

 

[WarmongerLSK]

only correct point is about unused funds in the army. however that is for procurement, not research. i don't like dole politics, but that is a different subject.

Write counters for each point you think I'm wrong about, not statements. What I wrote was that the investment is clearly minuscule compared to what is spent elsewhere. If the money set aside for procurement is not being used, then restructure the allocation and use it for R&D.

 

[Chinmoy]

So 82kg soldier won't fit?

A soldier having body mass of 82 kg would be fit for service?

 

[SilentlAssassin265]

A soldier having body mass of 82 kg would be fit for service?

For 6ft + soldier 82 kg is normal weight with bmi less than 24

 

[Anandhu Krishna]

I also prefer Embraer C-390 Millenium over other choices but only problem is delivery rate is so slow, Embraer hasn't even be able to deliver full 20 order of Brazil yet then there are orders from the netherlands and so...under such realities i find it hard that they'll be able to fulfill our orders this big.

also engine used in C-390 is from International Aero Engines (IAE) which has joint holding between Americans, Germans and Japanese and others so i am somewhat doubtful over sourcing engines, parts and afterservices if we go this way

Best option would be Kawasaki C-2. It fits everything but Japanese are hard to deal with. Brazilians are eager to sell so C-390 can give us some more room for negotiation.
or we could join the Koreans in their project.

If AF was headed by intelligent people with foresight, what ever they decide, they would also include a way to develop a C-17 equivalent with the deal ( JV/ToT or what ever it is) to replace the Il-76 and later C-17.
Only if..

 

[Blood+]

A soldier having body mass of 82 kg would be fit for service?

Will depend on his height.

 

[NoobWannaLearn]

 

[Chinmoy]

For 6ft + soldier 82 kg is normal weight with bmi less than 24

Indian Army Region Wise Weight and Height Chart for GD
States​	GD & TDN​	TECh & NA​	Clerk & SKT​
Jammu & Kashmir, Himanchal Pradesh, Punjab Hills (Area South and West ofthe Inter State Border between Himachal Pradesh and Punjab and North and East ofRoad Mukerian, Hoshiarpur, Garh Shankar, Ropar and Chandigarh), Garhwal and Kumaon (Uttarakhand)​	166 cms​	163 cms​	162 cms​
Sikkim, Nagaland, Arunachal Pradesh, Manipur, Tripura, Mizoram, Meghalaya, Assam and Hill Region of West Bengal (Gangtok, Darjeeling and Kalimpong Districts)​	160 cms​	157 cms​	160 cms​
Punjab, Haryana, Chandigarh,Delhi, Rajasthan and WesternUttar Pradesh (Meerut and Agra Division)​	170 cms​	170 cms​	162 cms​
Eastern Uttar Pradesh, Bihar, West Bengal, Jharkhand and Orissa​	169 cms​	169 cms​	162 cms​
Madhya Pradesh, Chattisgarh, Gujarat, Maharashtra, Dadar, Nagar Haveli, Daman and Diu​	168 cms​	167 cms​	162 cms​
Andhra Pradesh, Karnataka,Tamil Nadu, Kerala, Goa and Puducherry​	166 cms​	165 cms​	162 cms​
Weight​	50 kg​	50 kg​	50 kg​
Chest​	77-82 cms​	77-82 cms​	77-82 cms​

 

[Chinmoy]

Will depend on his height.

68 kg is the maximum permissible weight for any GD soldier. During joining BMI comes in picture just like locks of Mithun da.