DEFEXPO-2022

[NoobWannaLearn]

From my conversation with DRDO rep it seems it is very much ready from DRDO side including space food also. Not sure if our forces are using it.

Thank you

 

[NoobWannaLearn]

DRDO rep was nice enough to give me a small demo box to take home.

Maybe one day I will do review of it.

View attachment 178167

Please review it and send us all the link I for one is very interested to see what's it all about

 

[Okabe Rintarou]

Well, it would mean more if it is able to increase rate of fire but its just between 4 and 6 as per docs. Second, if it requires orientation and same number of humans to operate then very minimal benefit....I doubt if they will necessarily be preferred in snow heavy mountains. Shoot and scoot is generally the idea with this vs ATAGS, then you are not necessarily going to be at a point for long based on the amount of rounds it can carry? I think some times automation is frowned upon as it does half ass job....there are many areas in manufacturing plants where automation is considered unreliable, slow and unnecessary and deferred to human experience. It should not need so many people if shoot and scoot is the primary goal

ATAGS can actually burst fire at a rate of one round every 6.5 seconds, found this in a study talking about MRSI capability. Because of its 10-round magazine, they can simply do this:-
Load the magazine in safe place.
Drive to location, dismount, shoot 5 rounds, mount. (time taken approx. <1.5 minute)
Drive to new location, dismount, shoot remaining 5 rounds in magazine, mount.
Drive away to another safe location, load magazine again.
Repeat.

This is when shoot and scoot is highest priority. Otherwise they can change duration of stay, keep firing in intense mode for ten minutes and then move.

And then there is situation where they might do long sustained fire campaigns like in Kargil.

ATAGS MGS will handle all these rather well.

 

[dfcool]

I am 80% sure this is some Israeli-JV with screwdrivergiri.

I am 99.9% sure its israel IAI Scorpius-SP because couple of months ago some asian company brought this tech and IAI is the only company that successfully demonstrated the tech and invested heavy R&D.
Some one has to confirm though.

Otherwise its a great achievement by the company.

 

[omaebakabaka]

ATAGS can actually burst fire at a rate of one round every 6.5 seconds, found this in a study talking about MRSI capability. Because of its 10-round magazine, they can simply do this:-
Load the magazine in safe place.
Drive to location, dismount, shoot 5 rounds, mount. (time taken approx. <1.5 minute)
Drive to new location, dismount, shoot remaining 5 rounds in magazine, mount.
Drive away to another safe location, load magazine again.
Repeat.

This is when shoot and scoot is highest priority. Otherwise they can change duration of stay, keep firing in intense mode for ten minutes and then move.

And then there is situation where they might do long sustained fire campaigns like in Kargil.

ATAGS MGS will handle all these rather well.

Correct, I would assume shoot and scoot is one of the main features along with ease of transportation and few other benefits that comes with wheels like speed. I think Archer seems to do more compared to this not requiring that many people either....mechanism is probably similar to that in tanks? Not sure about atags but if I remember ceaser is 4 to 6? Its just if I was the designer then I would not have a human trained to take the ammo and charge in supposed automation, if the gun was to rotate laterally then ammo can be placed in the same axis and the automation in theory could be simple and somewhat whole....just casual observation. Now it needs to take 90 degree turn introducing additional axis movements

 

[SwordOfDarkness]

Well, it would mean more if it is able to increase rate of fire but its just between 4 and 6 as per docs. Second, if it requires orientation and same number of humans to operate then very minimal benefit....I doubt if they will necessarily be preferred in snow heavy mountains. Shoot and scoot is generally the idea with this vs ATAGS, then you are not necessarily going to be at a point for long based on the amount of rounds it can carry? I think some times automation is frowned upon as it does half ass job....there are many areas in manufacturing plants where automation is considered unreliable, slow and unnecessary and deferred to human experience. It should not need so many people if shoot and scoot is the primary goal

Arty crew is trained day in and day out that it becomes muscle memory, 4 to 6 rpms gives plenty of time to sync with ammo even manually and no different from atags where charge is manually placed. Sometimes simple is better as its easy to mass produce when automation is not solving in the best way necessarily. BTW, these are not widespread, heck even autoloaders in tanks were frowned up on by NATO for a while.

True. But in cases of very high volume of fire, lugging around 155mm is no mean feat. Much easier, and much faster in the long run to use a crane for the rounds and lug around the lighter weight charges.

 

[SwordOfDarkness]

ATAGS can actually burst fire at a rate of one round every 6.5 seconds, found this in a study talking about MRSI capability. Because of its 10-round magazine, they can simply do this:-
Load the magazine in safe place.
Drive to location, dismount, shoot 5 rounds, mount. (time taken approx. <1.5 minute)
Drive to new location, dismount, shoot remaining 5 rounds in magazine, mount.
Drive away to another safe location, load magazine again.
Repeat.

This is when shoot and scoot is highest priority. Otherwise they can change duration of stay, keep firing in intense mode for ten minutes and then move.

And then there is situation where they might do long sustained fire campaigns like in Kargil.

ATAGS MGS will handle all these rather well.

Just a side point - It doesnt have 10 rounds, just 5. The other 5 are there in the carousel but cant be used to store ammo (as they are upside down)

 

[abingdonboy]

Sad. TEDBF by 2032, aka 8 yrs from CCS approval.

TEDBF timeline is beyond AMCA, but TEDBF is more or less a derivative of tejas mk2.

Thats a long time, Many people wont be alive to see indigenous fighter jet on indigenious aircraft carrier.

How is TEDBF a derivative of a the LCA MK2? Does gong a clean sheet fighter is one thing but validating a carrier fighter like this is an entirely different ball game. 8 years is highly optimistic and let’s hope they can do that.

if it was easy everyone would do it. Not even the Chinese have designed and certified their own carrier fighter. India was ahead of them with NLCA flying from Vikky

 

[abingdonboy]

Screw drdo. No idli radar than its not. A true awacs

Tell that to the E7

Remover that DRDO have a 360 AWACS system designed that they even took to CCS for sanction in 2018 where it died a quiet death as the IAF/MoD didn’t want to pay the significant costs for it (despite paying similar sums for the Phalcons)

 

[abingdonboy]

idli deceiving your eyes , idli radar has many drawbacks, 240 degree is better.

idli radar rotates and have one transmitter and receiver, so there is time gap in each rotation. big maintenance and operational cost.

While 240 degree has 2 TR so it can cover 240 without any rotation, just have to watch your back.

I heard even US moving away from idli radar.

surely drdo thought the same.

DRDO’s 360 radar was fixed but with 4 arrays placed in a square pattern. Theoretically they could transmit simultaneously or within very high frequency

this is perhaps the most sophisticated such system that was ever close to being tested but myopia has killed it off and they’ve just gone for the cheap option (NETRA array with second hand Airbus)

 

[Anandhu Krishna]

Based
What a fucking Chad.

You don't see many Indian ceos showing this kind of confidence.

Most likely someone else's design.

 

[abingdonboy]

Previously there were reports of total 106 HTT-40 for IAF. Why they went for 70 only?

DAC last year cleared 70+36 HTT40 so the follow on will be ordered at a later date, no idea why they need to split it up like this but Indian procurement is this so…

the PC7 fleet is in serious trouble so they need these things ASAP and potentially will order even more then 106 if the PC7s really are already falling apart/being cannibalised as is reported

 

[Rassil Krishnan]

DAC last year cleared 70+36 HTT40 so the follow on will be ordered at a later date, no idea why they need to split it up like this but Indian procurement is this so…

the PC7 fleet is in serious trouble so they need these things ASAP and potentially will order even more then 106 if the PC7s really are already falling apart/being cannibalised as is reported

what happened to the pc7 fleet,i remember that there was there a corruption charge,was there a parts supply issue due to it from supplier side?

 

[omaebakabaka]

DAC last year cleared 70+36 HTT40 so the follow on will be ordered at a later date, no idea why they need to split it up like this but Indian procurement is this so…

the PC7 fleet is in serious trouble so they need these things ASAP and potentially will order even more then 106 if the PC7s really are already falling apart/being cannibalised as is reported

Let them deliver the first batch and iron out support and so on....its prudent from IAF and GOI side to do it in two batches.

 

[abingdonboy]

what happened to the pc7 fleet,i remember that there was there a corruption charge,was there a parts supply issue due to it from supplier side?

After they were all delivered Pilatus asked for a maintenance support contract at a huge price that wasn’t signed and hence the fleet has been in trouble ever since and spares have been hard to source for IAF from the global market

 

[abingdonboy]

Let them deliver the first batch and iron out support and so on....its prudent from IAF and GOI side to do it in two batches.

It doesn’t make any sense, order the majority upfront with an option? Another case of penny wise, pound foolish. It will just mean suppliers can’t invest in their own capacity as much

 

[omaebakabaka]

It doesn’t make any sense, order the majority upfront with an option? Another case of penny wise, pound foolish. It will just mean suppliers can’t invest in their own capacity as much

It makes sense as IAF also needs to operationalize and establish all sorts of things. 70 is a good number no matter how you look at it. It also gets the maximum efficiency on the HAL side hopefully.

 

[abingdonboy]

It makes sense as IAF also needs to operationalize and establish all sorts of things. 70 is a good number no matter how you look at it. It also gets the maximum efficiency on the HAL side hopefully.

I still don’t see how that makes sense unless IAF Aren’t capable of inducting 106 in one go, what difference is 36 more going to make? All this will do is add time delays and likely costs for all involved.

these batch orders absolutely kill Indian defence competitiveness

 

[abingdonboy]

They’ve gone a little over the top with the drones. They are all well and good but heavy capital products cannot be ignored. Drones are cheap and relatively simple hence why they are so common place whilst many other products are still being imagined

 

[abingdonboy]