Defective T-72 Tanks

Austin

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There is no new ammo for T-72 its just new built ammo of the old type since T-72 ballistic are not designed to take new Ammo atleast not the Russian ones , the only problem is OFB did not followed the specs in building the Gun and they tempered at low temperature , as Ajai mentioned the problem only comes when they fire APFSDS rounds which fires at higher chamber pressure compared to HEAT types.

We are pretty much not even ordering new ammo for T-90 just the old type or lets say the one we bough with original deal and ordering more of it. Unless the new Ammo in question is the Israel one lic built by DRDO.

However the problem is still the barrel not made according to design specs not the ammo , Ofcourse OFB also screwed up on the ammo front by mix matching propellent and this is a separate issue all together.
 
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pmaitra

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There is no new ammo for T-72 its just new built ammo of the old type since T-72 ballistic are not designed to take new Ammo atleast not the Russian ones , the only problem is OFB did not followed the specs in building the Gun and they tempered at low temperature , as Ajai mentioned the problem only comes when they fire APFSDS rounds which fires at higher chamber pressure compared to HEAT types.

We are pretty much not even ordering new ammo for T-90 just the old type or lets say the one we bough with original deal and ordering more of it. Unless the new Ammo in question is the Israel one lic built by DRDO.

However the problem is still the barrel not made according to design specs not the ammo , Ofcourse OFB also screwed up on the ammo front by mix matching propellent and this is a separate issue all together.
So, there is indeed a defect with the guns.

We are so messed up.
 

Austin

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There is no defect in the gun but defect in the way OFB made the gun as they tempered it at lower temperature then the OEM has suggested in design docs.

QC and QA is not something OFB excels in even good design produced by DRDO gets badly screwed up by PSU like OFB.
 

pmaitra

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There is no defect in the gun but defect in the way OFB made the gun as they tempered it at lower temperature then the OEM has suggested in design docs.

QC and QA is not something OFB excels in even good design produced by DRDO gets badly screwed up by PSU like OFB.
:shocked:

If there is defect in the way the gun is manufactured, would there be a defect in the gun, or not?

Defect in the gun is not necessarily a defect in design.
 

Armand2REP

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:shocked:

If there is defect in the way the gun is manufactured, would there be a defect in the gun, or not?

Defect in the gun is not necessarily a defect in design.
The defect is the steel not being tempered to high enough tolerance, therefor it is a defective barrel. It is a defect of manufacturing process. Of course it is not a defect of design, T-72s fire rounds the world over without exploding ammo.
 

sayareakd

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Army Worried Over Mal-Functioning T-72 Tanks
New Delhi | Jun 13, 2013






Source : :: Bharat-Rakshak.com - Indian Military News Headlines ::

===========================

OFB ammo were discarded not just propellents but also the rods, due to ammo burst in guns the blame we OFB produce faulty ammo..

Now we have conform reports that Russian ammo too burst in guns, Now the blame would also go on OFB perhaps..
funny part is 200 cases are reported and this is leaked to media only now, Russians have very deep connections i must say, had it been OFB or DRDO when first case reported media would have been all over their throat going for their blood.
 

shom

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funny part is 200 cases are reported and this is leaked to media only now, Russians have very deep connections i must say, had it been OFB or DRDO when first case reported media would have been all over their throat going for their blood.
Defects boom out of T-72 barrels
November 16, 2001 | Ch Sushil Rao , TNN
hyderabad: while hundreds of t-72 main battle tanks (mbts) of the army are long overdue for overhaul, another disturbing fact is that a few hundred of them were fitted with defective barrels, which could cause accidents. the barrels were found defective because they had not been tempered as per specifications. this has been reported by the comptroller general of india (cag). while 454 barrels valued at rs 4 4 crore were rejected because tempering specifications were not followed, an investigation had been...
Source:- Times of India
 

shiphone

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I read this days ago(Idrw.org of BR forum)...but one question: did this news clarify the tank gun ammunition is imported from Russia? the another one 'Krashnapov' meantioned was.
 

shom

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The defect is the steel not being tempered to high enough tolerance, therefor it is a defective barrel. It is a defect of manufacturing process. Of course it is not a defect of design, T-72s fire rounds the world over without exploding ammo.
T-72 is the most defects known is a circular turntable autoloader shells are stored in the turret underneath, when the inside of the ammunition is ignited detonated often cause turret was blown away from the body. But T-72 is designed with T-64 and T-80 was relatively safe, this is because the separated shell its horizontal storage way in the rotary table, in addition to the above elevator position outside are covered with a layer of armor plate, the vast majority of the shells were not exposed to combat indoor. At the same time these shells in the vehicle position close to the road wheel height, so in addition to the body side armor also extra wheel protection; instead of T-64/80 propellant vertical storage way around in the turret pod, not only exposed to combat indoor and its position above the wheels, very easily from the body side or from the angle of fire lit throughout the turret. Even so, T-72 has many additional ammunition stored in the inner wall of the shell rack, turret turret pod base and the fighting between the chamber and the engine shell frame, the lack of additional protective shells easily through high temperature separation of fragments in the turret or metal jet ignited, causing explosion and fire severity. In the Gulf War of T-72 was destroyed and detonated, though some call Iraq have is pretty early export degraded version "monkey" type T-72M or T-72M1, but the fact that the Russian T-72B items cannot be of battle, such as the face of APFSDS protection, T-72M, T-72B and M1A1HA values for 380MM 530MM and 680MM, respectively, with the penetration of APFSDS, 3BM-15 only 340MM, the Russian force 3BM-32 and 3BM-42 is 500MM, American M829A1 610 to 660MM. An important symbol of a thermal imaging device or the third generation of the chariot, the United States began in 1979 of M60A3, while Russia until 1993 in T-80UK first used the "agave", but also in exports to India T-90, the device by the Indian side refused, for the French "Catherine".
Another drawback to T-72 is due to the lack of precision of fire control system, makes the shooting procedure not only lengthy, inefficient, and hit rate than T-64 and T-80 lower. Sighting instrument TPD-K1 and its improved 1A40 most T-72 equipped with both built-in laser rangefinder, but they can only perform trajectory correction of simple calculation, but only 1A40 can lead to mobile target calculation. The sight in the distance must be laser point in the target on the implementation of distance, and the location of point position and aiming at different characterizations of center, and then aim at the characterization based on trajectory correction moved to a new location in the range is completed, then the shooter must will aim at the characterization of heart in the target. When using TPD-K1, if encounter moving target shooter must decide the leading, aiming at characterization has a long row of scale is used to aim at a moving target. 1A40 in the original sight next to add another sight, its function is to lead amount calculated display. The shooter must continue to tracking the target for 2 seconds, then the sight will display a quantity needed, Archer aiming at scale most close to that figure out. After the scale is arranged between the target fulfillment lead extraction. The T-72 has a feature called Delta-D, it will be based on the movement of the body after modification of target distance measurement. This function is not reliable, especially in the export of T-72 often cause error correction, and in particular the terrain such as wet ground or hilly terrain will make error correction.
In addition to the defects and other defects, T-72. T-72 lack of spare optical sight, 1 times the periscope can only use the striker at the top of the number. Automatic loader is driven by electric power, but a power system failure to carry out artificial loading can only be a mechanical device, each filling takes 1 minutes. The T-72 is equipped with active infrared night vision sight, the effective range of only 800 meters, and the resolution as well as the thermal imager. Automatic loading machine can not after each shot, automatically and continuously filled with a shell, must wait until the striker to press the switch to start filling procedures. T-72 defects after the collapse of the Soviet Union continued to be Russia and other countries use improvement, including the introduction of new fire control system and improved thermal imager, autoloader, design or substantially modified turret armor configuration configuration, and automatic loading machine.
Source:- T-72 main battle tanks _ T-72 main battle tanks wiki _ hewiki.com
 

sayareakd

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Defects boom out of T-72 barrels
November 16, 2001 | Ch Sushil Rao , TNN
hyderabad: while hundreds of t-72 main battle tanks (mbts) of the army are long overdue for overhaul, another disturbing fact is that a few hundred of them were fitted with defective barrels, which could cause accidents. the barrels were found defective because they had not been tempered as per specifications. this has been reported by the comptroller general of india (cag). while 454 barrels valued at rs 4 4 crore were rejected because tempering specifications were not followed, an investigation had been...
Source:- Times of India
so this 2001 news you dig out 12 years later as relevant, dont you think tanks under go firing test every year ?

IA dont have working tank, night blind, no artillery guns, they always cry for rifles, tank ammo, if this is all true, then someone is sleeping on the job.
 

shom

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so this 2001 news you dig out 12 years later as relevant, dont you think tanks under go firing test every year ?

IA dont have working tank, night blind, no artillery guns, they always cry for rifles, tank ammo, if this is all true, then someone is sleeping on the job.
I just posted this to prove that this issue is not new, the problem in prevalent for years, and yes someone is sleeping and sleeping strong.
 

shiphone

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year 2006, T-72 barrels defective, 26 cases of barrel burst

T-72 barrels defective, 26 cases of barrel burst
Published: Wednesday, August 2, 2006, 14:46

.......
He said the barrel involves both the indigenous as well as imported barrels. Mr Singh said during the last three years, 26 cases of barrel burst were reported, of which 14 were imported barrels and 12 indigenous.

............
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year 2012 Army's got it all wrong

.........

Another important aspect highlighted by the retired General was the incident of bursting of gun barrels of T-72 tanks. Although these have been produced in the erstwhile USSR and East European countries since early eighties in huge quantities, the problem dogged this product for long. In India, too, this occurred in barrels of both foreign and indigenous origins. Getting inputs from Russia to make improvements as implemented over there took more than half a dozen delegation-level meetings between the two countries. Although after valiant efforts some details of heat-treatment processes were obtained and implemented, there is no knowing that the problem has, indeed, been licked, since Russia does not share 'know why'.

Meanwhile, the Army appears to believe that one of the causes may be the strength of explosives in the indigenously produced high explosive ammunition. This is funny since there is no other ammunition available to be used in training or trials, as there is no stock of anti-tank ammunition which is what compelled the General to write in the first place.
..........
----------------------
also in year 2012 Inside India's defence acquisition mess

......
Efforts to plug the gap by upgrading India's T-72 tanks in the interim also ran into trouble. Indian-made 125mm smooth bore barrels blew up during field use, forcing the Army to seek emergency imports which haven't materialised. Imports of equipment which would have given them critical night-fighting capabilities are running years behind schedule.
.....
 
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shom

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Is that a barrel burst look more like ammo burst inside the turret and the tank is T-55 not T-72 IMO
Might be, I am not much fond of tanks, when I searched in google I found this video, but the problem in T72 is not only in India, it has happened else where too.
 

p2prada

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@Austin

Why does this article look like a re-hash of an early 2000 article where there were barrel bursts due to faulty DRDO designed shells?

What gave it away is the mention of Krasnopol (DDM spelt it wrong in the article) which had teething problems just after Kargil.
 
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p2prada

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@shiphone

This article is very, very, very old. The 2006 article is relatively newer compared to when these barrel bursts occurred.

Krasnopol had teething issues in 1999. So the article is that old. Media re-printed it, that's all.
 
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militarysta

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This is even more questionable
In minor parts indeed, but Soviet/Russian ammo values where given on otvaga forum couple times including this:



Armour composition and protection for T-72A, T-64B, T-72B and both armour variants T-80U are known and possible to count in some values. The same anty-APFSDS capabilities given from Kontakt-5 ERA. For Sviniec-1/2 ammo value is given from offcial statsment: "40% better then 3BM42 Mango".
Walues for western ammo are known in case DM13, DM23, DM33 (tested in Poland), OLF F1 so DM43, and in case M332 (IMI) etc
 

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