Countering cold start: Military to adopt new war concept

sayareakd

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Pakistan army is now trained to its extreme.had butcheredd more than 27k talibans until now
...even when the operation against taliban stop.
Pak army will need to get busy somewhere else.and the possible site is only the western border
i was again checking that figure you give for 27000 talibs. Since 9/11 happen in 2001, so in 12 years you have killed that may talibs...........:thumb:

which means 2250 talibs each year, which further means 187.5 talibs per month, which means 6.25 talibs per day, day after day for 12 years.............:hail::hail::hail::hail:
 

farhan_9909

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farhan_9909

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sayareakd

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Talibans are very well trained.they are not anymore the taliban with jsut AK47..beside this the terrain also give them alot of advantage

War in North-West Pakistan - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

compare this to your kashmir insurgency.even in a terrain like FATA.
beside this majority of the PA death toll is because of IED.lack of Good MRAP is the reason.
still 6.25 talibs day after day for 12 years is too much for PA, specially when you guys cant cross over to Afghanistan.............:laugh:
 

SPIEZ

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C'mon guys take a chill pill and for the first time, I see a Paki accepting and pointing to a Kashmir Insurgency" :pound:
 

farhan_9909

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still 6.25 talibs day after day for 12 years is too much for PA, specially when you guys cant cross over to Afghanistan.............:laugh:
Why do you think we should cross into afghanistan.

i support fencing of Border with afghanistan.

But the problem is local pashtuns has alot of soft heart for the afghanistan
 

farhan_9909

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purpose is to cut Pakistan into 8 pieces..........
what are you waiting for.since the past 3 decades.

this probably is the biggest opportunity for CSD.

we have no money
only 3lac troops are deployed on the eastern border,
we are busy inside

So i suspect india should go for CSD as soon as possible to cut pakistan into 8 pieces.
 

bose

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well sir Pakistan was made by alot of sacrifices.if it need again we are ready.
So do we... if we have to go down not only we will take you but also most of your ummah brothers... are they ready for that ??

Since life is all about leading toward death.A death for the country should be the moment of proud.
agreed!! That death will be a new begining...

we are not india or indians.when foriegn invaders come and we will bow to them.
Did not the foreign rulers such as Mughals, British & Sikhs ruled over you for long long time ??

bring it on Sir its been 3 decades you are boosting about CSD and CSD.we will see what is your CSD and what are your capabilities
leave the Nukes aside.
We are waiting for the right time to strike as it happened in 71, Baluchistan is becoming interesting day by day...we are very patient people...
 

JBH22

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Just like US burned down Soviet with arms race, India is doing the same with Pakistan. Forget about Pakistan matching India, it has become difficult to even maintain the army what with their economy in total dumps. Pakistan will spend itself into Balkanisation when people say enough is enough.
Oh no let's not repeat this US propaganda USSR came down on its own weight, it was an inefficient economy and on top of that to buy the allegiance of surrogates massive outflow of funds was required. It was doomed to fail its neither the afghan war nor Charlie wilson or anybody who brought them down.

And for Al Bakistan well their own stupidity is enough to sink them :) let's now start a race with a handicap nation atleast set decent goals
 

p2prada

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Indian test were said to be dud by both western sources as well as your own nuclear scientists..does it mean india dont have any latest design?warhead
Those are just speculations.

Anything to do with our nukes are mere speculations. The same is for your industry.

Calculate your own..pakistan plutonium production dates back to 1979 when the new labs(name) was constructed.
first khushab series reactor was made operational in 1997 with the production capacity of 14kg of plutonium per year.this was our first plutonium production reactor constructed by Nescom and PAEC.though as per the older kpc-3 pak nuclear submarine extract.the production capacity of khushab series reactor was 21kg per year.
Not all of the plutonium produced is used in bomb making.

21kg-35kg-50kg and 70kg or total 176kg of plutonium per year,
consider that each warhead is upto 50kt or use 8-10kg of plutonium.
so pakistan capacity at the moment of only plutonium based warhead is like 22warheads of 50kt yield per year.
Speculation and and more speculation. For all you know all your reactors are producing less than 20Kg each. All your reactors are small. Even our reactor Dhruva is said to be a 100MWt reactor and produces less uranium than you have claimed above. Your reactors are of 50MWt range.

NOTE:i am not counting the older new labs prduction capcity which still stands at 4kg per year or roughly 1-2 tactical warheads per year
Also i am not counting the close future new reactors being made including a different series of weapon production reactors
Even I can speculate and claim we have multiple PHWRs creating more plutonium than you can imagine.

Pakistan's construction of these new reactors at the Khushab site will result in a dramatic increase in its plutonium production capability. Combined, the three new reactors will be able to produce enough plutonium for over 12 nuclear weapons per year, depending on the reactors' size and operating efficiencies. 1 This compares with Pakistan's current estimated production of enough weapon-grade uranium and plutonium for about 7-14 weapons per year. 2 These three new reactors will roughly double Pakistan's annual ability to build nuclear weapons to about 19-26 nuclear weapons per year.
More or less. But all for 20kT class weapons.

how do you know they are tiny...do you think all of them are based off the reactor design in 90's.
50MWt with the latest said to be another 50MWt reactor. All the Khushab reactors.

A 50MWt reactor should deliver around 10Kg of weaponized Plutonium.

Comparatively DHRUVA is a 100MWt reactor and produces around 20Kg of plutonium, 26 according to official sources.

All your reactors are based on the Khushab-1.

Khushab-1 | Facilities | NTI
Khushab-1 is a 40-50MW plutonium production reactor, moderated by heavy water and utilizing natural uranium fuel.

Depending on its capacity, Khushab-1 had produced approximately 60 to 130 kilograms of weapons-grade plutonium as of 2010. [4] Assuming that 8kg of plutonium are needed to produce one nuclear weapon, Pakistan could have had sufficient plutonium for between 7 and 16 nuclear weapons from Khushab-1 production alone as of 2010. The facility is not under IAEA safeguards.
This should give you an idea.

Also,
Khushab-3 | Facilities | NTI
Once completed, Khusab-3 will reportedly be a 50MW plutonium production reactor.
so incase of nuclear war..no matter what but india will get a civilian damage of atleast 4-5times more than pak.pak economy might collapse.i agree about this.
You are making a lot of mistakes. I already told you, a 20kT weapons will make only a 350m crater, that's smaller than my entire apartment complex. Sure, there are around 350 families in my complex so the death count would be rather high for the small area of damage, but it won't take out the whole city.

even if india nuke all the 66 cities of pak..that probably will account for the death of upto 40millions.but imagine if pakistan nukes just 50 cities of india?that would count for more than 100millions population of india..i am sure this would be more..but not in the mood of calculation right now
Yes, we have a large population, even in the cities. However you are underestimating BMD, CMD and also the resilience of our buildings to a nuclear attack of such tiny magnitude. There were people in Nagasaki who were close to ground zero and survived because they were held in concrete prison cells. The people who died were living in wood and paper houses which caught fire after.

You can't nuke 50 cities of India. You don't have such capability. And we don't need to nuke even one city of Pakistan, we only need to take out power plants and water systems using conventional weapons and watch Pakistanis kill each other instead.

4 are active with combined capacity close to 170kg.even if a 100kt warhead need 15-18 kg of plutonium per warhead.
we can still make atleast 8-10 100kt warheads per year.
You need much more than 15-18Kg.

though 50kt warheads are ideal for destruction of a city.in a sense nuclear radiation and ofcourse nuclear winter as well.
and your already aware of the after effects of nuclear warheads remain for decades.
Nuclear winter will work only if you nuke a lot of places with a lot of bombs. That means around 20000 or 30000 nukes. Have you even gone through the number of nuclear tests conducted throughout the world? Read about it and you will understand that even a combined Indian+Pakistani arsenal won't take out India.

Anyway, we produce a lot of tritium for thermonuclear bombs.
India can be largest supplier of tritium: Kakodkar - Indian Express

You see, we need a small fission bomb to trigger a larger fusion bomb. While you are busy producing and using up all your plutonium for fission bombs, we may have already moved towards bigger things.

And this, to help you understand what the previous link means.
Tritium from Power Plants gives India an H-bomb capability

For all you know we have enough tritium to make both US and Russia jealous.

Also note that the 50MWt for Khushab is just for thermal power, while most of the Indian reactors list their electrical output. In other words, your reactors are tinier than you think. Meaning the Russians are currently building 2 1000MWe reactors in Tamil Nadu right now while your Khushab reactors 1 through 3 are around 15MWe reactors. See the difference.

For reference let me give you an example of another reactor in comparison. We made a test FBTR reactor which feeds on plutonium. It was a 40MWt reactor with an electrical output of 13MWe. It needed 50Kg of weaponized plutonium and was made in 1985. We are currently building a second PFBR of 500MWe capacity. So you can only imagine how much weaponized plutonium it will need. Btw, the bye-product of this reactor is more plutonium.
 

bose

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Why do you think we should cross into afghanistan.

i support fencing of Border with afghanistan.

But the problem is local pashtuns has alot of soft heart for the afghanistan
Bhai Jaan, Afghans do not recognize the durand line... Their demand is upto Peshawar...
 

sayareakd

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Why do you think we should cross into afghanistan.

i support fencing of Border with afghanistan.

But the problem is local pashtuns has alot of soft heart for the afghanistan
you didnt answer 6.25 talibs for day for 12 years figure given by you ..........
 

sayareakd

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what are you waiting for.since the past 3 decades.

this probably is the biggest opportunity for CSD.

we have no money
only 3lac troops are deployed on the eastern border,
we are busy inside

So i suspect india should go for CSD as soon as possible to cut pakistan into 8 pieces.
first we will make you bankrupt, then cut your country in style. We are doing as plan.
 

The Last Stand

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well sir Pakistan was made by alot of sacrifices.if it need again we are ready.

Since life is all about leading toward death.A death for the country should be the moment of proud.

we are not india or indians.when foriegn invaders come and we will bow to them.

bring it on Sir its been 3 decades you are boosting about CSD and CSD.we will see what is your CSD and what are your capabilities
leave the Nukes aside.
You shouldn't be talking. Whole Eastern section of PA surrendered to IA in East Pakistan, we got 92,000 POW. It is ill of you to underrate the courage of the soldiers of the Indian Army.

You must remember you were a part of India as well, and when we got subdued by the British, you did too!
 

DivineHeretic

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Wondering If Pakistani nukes are bluff and they wont use it.than what the hell is IA doing..why not go for an offensive

last night i was making a difference between abbottabad raid and mumbai attacks(Indian considers that the offensive was planned by ISI which again is a Govt organization)

Describing in an indian way

ISI trained or instructed Mujahideen raided the indian mega city,enjoyed a free ride in mumbai.completed there mission.

it seems like Mumbai style raid was much more humiliating than abbottabad raid.they didnt took or killed a pakistani atleast.

I dont support and hate people like kasabs but i was giving just a comparision of ISI planned raids in India
Let me Juxtapose an opinion of mine against yours and see if you hold the same yardstick to it as well....

The RAW and IA trained and funded/equipped the TTP against Pak, effectively turning a 'Strategic Asset' of Kayani/Mushi into India's Minion. Now thats some Baniya capability.

Now this minion, under Kafir's orders,began waging a full blown war against the Pak State, occupying and controlling large swathes of territory. The PA is effectively denied the ability to move in its own territory.

The PA, finally being ordered and threatened and paid by the Infidel Uncle Sam open a front against TTP. The result....5000 troops, 40,000 civilians wind up dead. More Pakistanis die in this turmoil than in the three wars put together.

All the while the Evil Veggie Indians sit and enjoy the show......Sounds Good now, don't it? It must be a really proud moment for you celebrating the Mumbai Attacks.

By your logic of RAW being responsible for TTP, We take 241 lives for every one you took in Mumbai......Now you must be swelling with pride at the actions of ISI

But let me increase your pride further. The RAW minions/mercenaries intrude into multiple military bases, not civilian hotels, and blew up the eyes of PN, the eyes of the PAF, and finally even attack the head, GHQ Rawalpindi. The cost of these attacks.....well It'd be a lot of $, but you are too bankrupt to even afford it in the first place.....

Yup, sure the Mumbai Attacks were humiliating for India. Every civilian/soldier lost is a shame, a disgrace for us. But these are tall feelings, the feelings of a nation which prides on its citizens. something well above the understanding of a person who measures the humiliation by the numbers of civilians killed.
 

DivineHeretic

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the real headache for India will start when our defence budget will reach 20billions.considering if the economy grows by average +7% for the next 5 years and we also add the informal economy into the formal GDP

the best india can do is to have peace deals with pakistan.

increase the trade to around 20-25billions.depend pakistan on india too much like bangladesh.so that pakistan have no other choice but to bow to india.
and this is very much possible.because if Pak grant MFN to india..the trade will reach 10billions within few years
If $20 Billion in defense spending is the yardstick for headache, then you should be having a fractured skull.....

Every year since 2009, we have been putting far more an entire Pakistani budget into defense spending. We have spent roughly $151 billion in the last four years on defense (excluding classified spending)...you managed to spend at most $36 Billion in the same period. Thats a difference of around $115 billion.

Assuming both nations were the same in 2009( which is an absolutely false assumption, but just for the sake of simplicity) the gap in four years, in spending, and by extension the capability is already ~50% of the Pak economy. In terms of years, at current spending, you are behind India by nearly 13 years already, and its been only 4 years since.

And to make matters worse, every year the Indian military pulls 4 years further ahead of Pak, assuming falt spending figures ( again an unlikely scenario, given the expected increase is ~10-15% per annum). So in 6 more years, when you will hopefully reach ~20 billion defense budget, we will be as much as 43 years ahead of you.

You will still be catching up to the capability we have in 2014 in 2020 going by assumption that your defense budget suddenly increases to $10 Billion tomorrow and touches $30 billion by 2020. And this spending gap will increase, and exponentially at that.

Do some basic math, before screaming rhetorics.
 

sayareakd

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best way to win over enemy is divide it, if you can divided him to defend on two opposite sides, nothing better.
 

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