Civil war in Ukraine

[pmaitra]

More ? You really seem to be a funny guy ! do you work in a circus or something like that?

How big is an average EU politician's brain?

Spoiler

 

[Mad Indian]

@Gabriel92 , So am I to understand that French citizens are so brainwashed that they are ready to suffer economic hardships based on their American masters' wishes and whims, by sanctioning a country which is about six thousand kilometers away from their border?:shocked:

You guys sure are awesome

 

[Gabriel92]

How big is an average EU politician's brain?

Spoiler

Ah! you're the funniest guy on the earth !

@Gabriel92 , So am I to understand that French citizens are so brainwashed that they are ready to suffer economic hardships based on their American masters' wishes and whims, by sanctioning a country which is about six thousand kilometers away from their border?:shocked:

You guys sure are awesome

We do not suffer the sanctions imposed on russia and the "sanctions" imposed by russia lol,the markets here are full,with good food (no problem for fuel,or whatever) is it the same situation in russian markets ?
Sure we are,thank you!

 

[Mad Indian]

Ah! you're the funniest guy on the earth !



We do not suffer the sanctions imposed on russia and the "sanctions" imposed by russia lol,the markets here are full,with good food (no problem for fuel,or whatever) is it the same situation in russian markets ?
Sure we are,thank you!

I dont think any nation can be unaffected by sanctions(economics 101), but even if I forgive your ignorance on that , tell me how your 3Bn$ penalty for not selling the mistrals and the bleak future of the 30Bn$ Rafale deal with India and any future defence exports of France (which is now under consideration due to France proving to be an unreliable vendor and also remember that France not sanctioning India during the 1998 nuclear tests by India was a positive point for Rafale when it was under consideration for MMRCA), are not going to affect your economy?

And you lot will miss out all that just because your American masters say so? Excellent!

 

[pmaitra]

I dont think any nation can be unaffected by sanctions(economics 101), but even if I forgive your ignorance on that , tell me how your 3Bn$ penalty for not selling the mistrals and the bleak future of the 30Bn$ Rafale deal with India and any future defence exports of France (which is now under consideration due to France proving to be an unreliable vendor and also remember that France not sanctioning India during the 1998 nuclear tests by India was a positive points for Rafale when it was under consideration for MMRCA), are not going to affect your economy?

And you lot will miss out all that just because your American masters say so? Excellent!

Well, carry on conversing with him if you want.

As far as I am concerned, France has an unemployment rate of around 10% and youth unemployment rate of around 24%. France has a Debt-to-GDP ratio of more than 90%, and that is concerning, if not alarming. These facts tell me a lot of about France's precarious condition.

 

[Razor]

I dont think any nation can be unaffected by sanctions(economics 101), but even if I forgive your ignorance on that , tell me how your 3Bn$ penalty for not selling the mistrals and the bleak future of the 30Bn$ Rafale deal with India and any future defence exports of France (which is now under consideration due to France proving to be an unreliable vendor and also remember that France not sanctioning India during the 1998 nuclear tests by India was a positive points for Rafale when it was under consideration for MMRCA), are not going to affect your economy?

Also I'm interested in knowing what they will do with the mistral. I hear it was built according to Russian specifications for Russian navy.

And you lot will miss out all that just because your American masters say so? Excellent!

I guess the taste of those boots is just too good.

 

[Razor]

Anyway, unlike Russia Western citizens fighting in Eastern Ukraine on the side of the Ukrainian governments are private individuals

Proof ??
If not then one can also claim the people fighting fot Free Novorossiya are private citizens.

But these Western volunteers are very few in numbers.

Proof ??
Do you have comparitive numbers ?

Russia on the other hand has sent regiments of soldiers first into Crimea (the little Green MEn?) while Putin was brazenly lying in all media.

This is because you have not watched Russian media at that time. Instead you fed on Western propaganda. If you had watched some alternative media or if you you knew some history then you would know.
According to the treaty b/w Russia and Ukr, Russia is legally allowed to station upto (if I remember right) 25000 troops in Crimea.

Then Russia again sent regular soldiers into Eastern Ukraine when the rebels there were about to lose, again Putin went into over drive lying about the presence of Russian soldiers.

Prove it , please.

I really cannot understand the fascination of otherwise educated people on Putin. He is a pathological liar and a strategic failure... (although of course he is easily the richest leader of any country in the World, again he is lying on his wealth which he amassed while President)

Proof ??

I guess you should provide some proof for these stories or else you may be called pathological story maker.

 

[pmaitra]

Czech President: Ukraine's PM Yatsenyuk Is a Warmonger

He's refusing to listen to recommendations for peace of the European Commission. Ukraine president Poroshenko may be marginally better.

(RT) [SOURCE]

Victoria Nuland's boy

Surprise, suprise. Victoria Nuland's "Our man Yats" won't listen to EU recommendations.

Of course he wouldn't. He is much closer to the US, ergo the hard line. As Nuland would put it: "----- the EU".

The tragedy is that it is taking a maverick like Czech Republic's Zeman to say it.

Other European leaders remain silent as US does everything it can to help deepen a crisis on the European continent.

This article originally appeared at RT.

Czech President Milos Zeman has slammed Ukrainian Prime Minister Arseny Yatsenyuk, calling him "a prime minister of war" because he is unwilling to peacefully solve the civil conflict in the country.

"From the statements by PM Yatsenyuk, I think that he is a 'prime minister of war', because he does not want a peaceful solution to the crisis [in Ukraine] recommended by the European Commission," Zeman told Pravo, a Czech daily newspaper.​

Yatsenyuk wants to solve Ukrainian conflict "by the use of force," added the Czech leader.

According to Zeman, the current policy of Kiev authorities has two "faces." The first is the "face" of the country's president, Petro Poroshenko, who "may be a man of peace."

The second "face" is that of PM Yatsenyuk, who has an uncompromising position toward self-defense forces in Eastern Ukraine.

Zeman said he doesn't' believe that the February coup, during which then-President Viktor Yanukovich was deposed from power, was a democratic revolution at all.

"Maidan was not a democratic revolution, and I believe that Ukraine is in a state of civil war," Zeman said, responding to what he described as "poorly informed people" who compared Maidan with Czechoslovakia's Velvet Revolution in 1989.

In November 2013, the initially peaceful demonstrations which started as a reaction to then-President Viktor Yanukovich's refusal to sign the EU association deal became violent in early 2014.

Kiev's central Independence Square - Maidan Nezalezhnosty - was turned into a battlefield as Ukrainian protesters clashed with police through January and February.

The unrest resulted in a coup that toppled Yanukovich and his government in February.

The Republic of Crimea's withdrawal from Ukraine was followed by a conflict in the country's southeast.

According to UN figures, at least 4,317 people have been killed and 9,921 wounded in the conflict in eastern Ukraine since April when Kiev authorities launched a so-called anti-terrorist operation in the region.

 

[pmaitra]

Kiev's Strategy in East Ukraine Is Criminal and Repugnant

Its disturbing war on civilians will have consequences opposite of those intended.

Lev Golinkin (Los Angeles Times) [SOURCE]

Even the biased Lev Golinkin can see it

The author here takes time off to pander to anti-Russian biases. He speaks of "genocidal policies" of "Josef Stalin's Russia" tying up Stalin, genocide and Russia.

Actually the state Stalin (a non-Russian) ruled over was the multi-national Soviet Union, which was as Ukrainian as it was Russian, and which killed Russians and Ukrainians alike.

He claims Western Ukrainians "never forgot" Stalin's "genocidal policies" alluding to the Requisition Famine of 1932-33, but the truth is Western Ukrainians never experienced it.

At the time Western Ukraine was part of Poland and was not affected. The famine caused deaths in Central and East Ukraine, Crimea, Russia's Northern Caucasus, and the Volga region of Russia.

This article originally appeared in Los Angeles Times.

In mid-December, President Obama signed into law the Ukraine Freedom Support Act, which, among options for more sanctions against Russia, calls on the White House to provide Kiev with assistance for internally displaced persons as well as to cooperate with international organizations to distribute aid in Ukraine.

Such aid is sorely needed in eastern Ukraine. Much of the infrastructure of Donetsk and Luhansk — the main cities in the Donbas region — has been destroyed, coal and food supplies are disrupted, and Kiev froze government pension and other payments to the region in November.

With brutal winter conditions approaching, risks of starvation and death are becoming too real. As the United Nations and Amnesty International put it, a humanitarian crisis is looming.

Unfortunately, recent statements by Col. Oleksiy Nozdrachov, Ukraine's chief of military and civilian cooperation in eastern Ukraine, show disturbing signs of Kiev's attitude toward this crisis. Where the U.N. sees a looming humanitarian disaster, Kiev may see an opportunity.

Kiev's strategy, as outlined by Nozdrachov in USA Today, is to continue withholding government services from the rebel-held areas in hopes that increased suffering will turn the local population against the separatists.

"This shows the population in the occupied territory that the situation under the Ukrainian government is much, much better," Nozdrachov said.​

In addition, an Amnesty International report posted Dec. 24 said pro-Kiev "volunteer battalions are increasingly blocking humanitarian aid into eastern Ukraine in a move which will exacerbate a pending humanitarian crisis."

These actions are reprehensible. Kiev, and most of the world, rightly views the petty warlords in control of Donbas as illegitimate entities.

However, if a gunman takes over an office building, no police department in the United States would condone withholding basic necessities from the hostages in the hope that they would rise up and vanquish the perpetrator.

Providing aid to civilians trapped in a standoff is not appeasement or negotiation with terrorists; it is a fundamental principle: preventing needless loss of life.

Any decision to use the tragic situation in eastern Ukraine as a weapon is not only morally repugnant, but it also will surely have negative repercussions for Kiev.

The strategy may help force the rebels to capitulate and allow Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko to establish nominal control over the region.

But Ukraine is a land where grudges run deep. Western Ukrainians have never forgotten the genocidal policies of Josef Stalin's Russia (which, incidentally, employed hunger as a weapon); the Russian-speaking residents of Donbass are not likely to forgive Kiev for starving them into submission.

Anger at Kiev, and the West, will continue to simmer in Donbass. And that is a problem.

Ukraine cannot afford to have Donetsk and Luhansk solidify into a permanent conflict zone such as Transnistria in Moldova and Abkhazia and South Ossetia in Georgia, regions where long-standing enmities fester, preventing true national unity in those countries.

Ukraine has long been teetering on the brink of economic collapse. Turning it around will be an enormous undertaking by the most optimistic of estimates; doing so without the industrial centers and natural resources of Donetsk and Luhansk may be impossible.

Ukraine's best chance to beat back economic disaster is to move forward as a united nation, and to do that, it needs to win back the eastern Ukrainians.

That presents a challenge, which cannot be overcome by simply regaining territory and planting a Ukrainian flag. Eastern Ukraine is separated from the rest of country by a cultural, linguistic, and even religious, divide, with one of the two major Orthodox churches aligned with Kiev and the other with Moscow.

It is a blurry divide, running through towns, sometimes through neighborhoods and families.

Until last year, it was not an insurmountable barrier to national unity — if that were the case, Ukraine would have split apart in the early 1990s, as did Yugoslavia and Czechoslovakia. But after 4,700 deaths in eastern Ukraine and Crimea, more than a million displaced persons and continued fighting, the chasms have deepened.

On Monday, Poroshenko announced that he would meet Jan. 15 with representatives from France, Germany and Russia to discuss a peace settlement for Ukraine. Ukraine, he said, cannot win back Donbas militarily.

In Moscow, Russia announced that it would continue to supply oil to Ukraine, and over the weekend, prisoners were exchanged between Kiev and rebel forces in separate peace talks in Minsk.

These are welcome moves, but for the millions of pensioners and other civilians in Donbas, will the resolution they portend — a resolution that has been so far been elusive — come fast enough?

Lev Golinkin, who was born in the former Soviet Union — in the city of Kharkov, which is now part of eastern Ukraine — is the author of the memoir "A Backpack, a Bear, and Eight Crates of Vodka." He lives in New Jersey.

 

[pmaitra]

Also I'm interested in knowing what they will do with the mistral. I hear it was built according to Russian specifications for Russian navy.

Let France turn the Mistral into a floating ice-cream kiosk, for all I care. Russia should simply ask for the money back, with the fine, and continue to help the NovoRossiyan militia.

 

[pmaitra]

Oh, those manufactured articles. I am really at a loss as to why you quote those questionable fly-by-night websites (they're not even media companies).

Better than lie-by-night-and-day websites, like the British Brainwashing Corporation or New York Trash.

But these Western volunteers are very few in numbers. Russia on the other hand has sent regiments of soldiers first into Crimea (the little Green Men?) while Putin was brazenly lying in all media.

Little Green Men? You should be the last person using that adjective.

 

[Akim]

I dont think any nation can be unaffected by sanctions(economics 101),

In 1991, died in the Soviet Union because of the economic collapse. But the Soviet Union was not such a raw state, and not hung from the Western goods as modern Russia.

 

[Razor]

Better than lie-by-night-and-day websites, like the British Brainwashing Corporation or New York Trash.


Little Green Men? You should be the last person using that adjective.

He is referring to these Novorossiyan freedom fighters. Also referred to as "the polite people."

They were also found in Krimea.

Are they Russian, I think they are American. or maybe martians (little green men, get it ?)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5DNVL50lEXg

Notice how antagonistic the locals are to these polite people.

BBC was telling the truth OMG.



The day BBC tells the truth, pigs will sprout wings and fly.

 

[Mad Indian]

Also I'm interested in knowing what they will do with the mistral. I hear it was built according to Russian specifications for Russian navy.

Helicarriers are very expensive and will be needed by the countries which want power projection or Blue water navy capabilities. I am curious as to which other country in the world is going to be interested in it in the first place.

For instance, if India chooses to back out of Rafale on grounds that France is an unreliable vendor, they can sell the 120+ Rafale to 12 different countries in batches of 10. But can they do it to a single ship like Mistral?

So, my question is, who has the requirement for a ship like Mistral in the first place, so that they might justify spending so much for a single ship?

I guess the taste of those boots is just too good.

 

[Mad Indian]

Better than lie-by-night-and-day websites, like the British Brainwashing Corporation or New York Trash.


Little Green Men? You should be the last person using that adjective.

Also, "Western Volunteers"???

Since when have the westerners volunteered for anyone in the world . I mean, am I to believe that the average western citizen is so concerned with the Ukrainians, they "volunteered" to fight in Ukraine, to save the people they dont even care enough to make them a part of EU?

 

[pmaitra]

Also, "Western Volunteers"???

Since when has the westerners volunteered for anyone in the world . I mean, am I to believe that the average western citizen is so concerned with the Ukrainians, they "volunteered" to fight in Ukraine to save the people they dont even care enough to be a part of EU?

Well, if you have seen my earlier post where I quoted you, the EU has an over-abundance of jobless blokes, and with the gravy train of dollars flowing into the Kiev regime's hands, it is not too unreasonable to assume that many of the jobless blokes are flocking to Ukraine to join the Kiev regime's mercenary groups.

I agree with your point. People flocking to Ukraine to fight for the Kiev regime are most likely motivated by money, and not by any sense of "care."

 

[Mad Indian]

Well, if you have seen my earlier post where I quoted you, the EU has an over-abundance of jobless blokes, and with the gravy train of dollars flowing into the Kiev regime's hands, it is not too unreasonable to assume that many of the jobless blokes are flocking to Ukraine to join the Kiev regime's mercenary groups.

I agree with your point. People flocking to Ukraine to fight for the Kiev regime are most likely motivated by money, and not by any sense of "care."

In other words, "western volunteers" are actually western funded mercenaries. So why is it ok for West to fund mercenaries and not ok for Russia to arm the rebels? Is it because the US boots are tastier ?

 

[pmaitra]

In other words, "western volunteers" are actually western funded mercenaries. So why is it ok for West to fund mercenaries and not ok for Russia to arm the rebels? Is it because the US boots are tastier ?

Boots, or other orifices, for some of our resident LGBT activists.

 

[Ray]

Oh, those manufactured articles. I am really at a loss as to why you quote those questionable fly-by-night websites (they're not even media companies)... I guess it's hard defending Russian position as even respectable Asian media organizations do not toe Russian lies.

Anyway, unlike Russia Western citizens fighting in Eastern Ukraine on the side of the Ukrainian governments are private individuals that are not sanctioned by their governments (nobody can 100% stop their citizens from fighting elsewhere in the World). But these Western volunteers are very few in numbers. Russia on the other hand has sent regiments of soldiers first into Crimea (the little Green MEn?) while Putin was brazenly lying in all media. Then Russia again sent regular soldiers into Eastern Ukraine when the rebels there were about to lose, again Putin went into over drive lying about the presence of Russian soldiers. I really cannot understand the fascination of otherwise educated people on Putin. He is a pathological liar and a strategic failure... (although of course he is easily the richest leader of any country in the World, again he is lying on his wealth which he amassed while President)

Very convenient.

Manufactured articles?

Manufactured democracy too!

Western articles is what you call 'manufactured' articles.

so, who do you believe?

 

[sgarg]

russian thugs who are actually "fighting" in ukraine are "volunteers" fighting against fascism and nazism right ? just defending their brothers of the so called novorossia :thumb:

I have no problem with Russians fighting on the side of NovoRussia or French fighting on the side of Kiev. Spare me the moral overdose though.

The events in Kiev are a naked power grab by Americans after years of propaganda.

It is clear that many people do not agree with the new bosses in Kiev. These people are being branded as terrorists? Why?

If it is a war then combatants of both sides are genuine, Nazi or not.