Civil war in Ukraine

[Damian]

Regarding American Bias:

Have you seen the pictures of the half burned naked Vietnamese women wanting to survive and gasping for life after the American nerve gas attack ??
Have seen what has happened in IRAQ ?? In Libya ? Syria ??

It is the same Americans who shot down a Iranian civilian aircraft and their conduct there after was appalling ...

That gives a reasons to hate Americans even for those who comes from a fart right family background...

That is nature of warfare.

Did you seen what Russians done to others? Massive minefields killing civilians in Afghanistan, what was happening in Caucasus region.

This is just nature of warfare.

And to be honest, Americans at least appology for their mistakes, recognize them, and if soldiers are found guilty of harming civilians on purpose, they are packed in jails and dishonoroubly discharged from military service. And this, makes huge difference.

There is no issue with having a close economic association with Europe and even Russia wants the same...Ukraine is playing on Russian fears and here lies the problem...

But Russians have paranoia, do you understand this? What Ukrainians can do to Russia? Invade Moscow?

Poland joined NATO in the past... there was an understanding that Americans to not poach on ex Soviet republics and they have gone back on it... so the fear is Ukraine will do the same as Poland in very near future... This is the Russian fear... rightly or wrongly... one should not exploit one's security concerns that leads to what we see in Ukraine...

But you don't understand, we joined because we wanted, and we remembered what means to be under Russian influance (with my great sympathy to common Russians, I am completely against their idiotic political leadership).

if Ukrainians feal the same, they should have freedom to choose their own path, if they wish to join EU or NATO, fine, that's their decision.

Russian goverment actually oppose any independency of any of it's neighboures, in some cases their actions might be successfull, in other cases, they only antagonize relationship of their neighbours with them.

I give you example, when Russians place their SRBM's near our borders then everything is fine, even if they have nuclear warheads, but when we try to improve our defensive capabilities by starting R&D on our own AD/ABM defences and inviting Americans with their systems, then Russian goverment are making a shit storm because... because we have defensive weapons here.

You see the difference? Kremlin is full of liers and hypocrytes. Which is pity, if Russia could have a normal goverment, so many new possibilities could emerge.

 

[Akim]

Don't get me wrong, I fully support Ukraine's title to Crimea but I think realistically you cannot take back that territory anymore. What Ukraine should have done was risk war with Russia over Crimea and actually held your ground there. But now that you pulled out from there it will be very hard to take it back (near impossible I might say).

Maybe Ukraine should just focus on its current territory and work for EU membership.

Crimea to return hard, practically impossible, but Ukraine will have to consider their land, as well as Georgia - Abkhazia and South Ossetia, says its erritories. Europe. very subtly respond to such attacks ( the example of Northern Cyprus).
Now the Crimea has no export-import of Europe, there are no international flights. In the ports do not enter foreign ships. The world does not recognize the Crimea by the Russian territory. How many people in the Crimea wants to be in international isolation - a question of time

 

[bose]

Yeah right... one do not need to go to school to understand writed text as well, hmmm?



There is a lot of people talking a lot of things. I prefer to make my own observations and conclusions, and they are very different from yours.



Yeah right, BS propagana from pro-russians themselfs talking a lot how separatists are loosing ground to Ukrainian military?

As I said, you don't know any of local language, so you are incapable to even get real informations. Which is kinda funny, to see how emotional you are, when opposite situation is described to what you actually believe in.



Interesting way of thinking, so if Ukraine win battles, take ground from separatists, they loose?

Use less of wink and smiley in your arguments that will make more sense... useless ranting are not good enough for a reply... concentrate of Tanks & APC's...

ASS lickers !!

 

[Akim]

Well your American allies could not stop Russia taking the Crimea and now the Eastern Ukraine is about to be lost ...

America has never been an ally of Ukraine. Not yet been...

 

[Damian]

Use less of wink and smiley in your arguments that will make more sense... useless ranting are not good enough for a reply... concentrate of Tanks & APC's...

ASS lickers !!

Haha, predictible response.

 

[pmaitra]

Western media like AP and Reuters are hogwash. They are all working for CIA against Putin!

Here's the real Buk luncher that shot down MH17, it is numbered 312 (I think the Kremlin military heirarchy has yet to know about this since they have not mentioned it yet in their briefings...):



See, those are the same Buk's according to the Russian blog site. Now this is real honest to goodness "news!" Not that crappy fancy Western media who are always talking about lies...

Very informative. Your post proves everything.

On a serious note, you did better than John Kerry. At least you posted one picture of something that is covered in tarpaulin.

 

[bose]

That is nature of warfare.

Did you seen what Russians done to others? Massive minefields killing civilians in Afghanistan, what was happening in Caucasus region.

This is just nature of warfare.

And to be honest, Americans at least appology for their mistakes, recognize them, and if soldiers are found guilty of harming civilians on purpose, they are packed in jails and dishonoroubly discharged from military service. And this, makes huge difference.



But Russians have paranoia, do you understand this? What Ukrainians can do to Russia? Invade Moscow?



But you don't understand, we joined because we wanted, and we remembered what means to be under Russian influance (with my great sympathy to common Russians, I am completely against their idiotic political leadership).

if Ukrainians feal the same, they should have freedom to choose their own path, if they wish to join EU or NATO, fine, that's their decision.

Russian goverment actually oppose any independency of any of it's neighboures, in some cases their actions might be successfull, in other cases, they only antagonize relationship of their neighbours with them.

I give you example, when Russians place their SRBM's near our borders then everything is fine, even if they have nuclear warheads, but when we try to improve our defensive capabilities by starting R&D on our own AD/ABM defences and inviting Americans with their systems, then Russian goverment are making a shit storm because... because we have defensive weapons here.

You see the difference? Kremlin is full of liers and hypocrytes. Which is pity, if Russia could have a normal goverment, so many new possibilities could emerge.

So by your logic: Germans and Russians what ever did to you polish people were fully justified... Sick people like you fully deserve it...

 

[bose]

America has never been an ally of Ukraine. Not yet been...

What are those blackwater guys doing in Kiev very recently ??

 

[Damian]

So by your logic: Germans and Russians what ever did to you polish people were fully justified... Sick people like you fully deserve it...

No, I don't say that all things were fully justified.

What I say, that there is a difference between a combat casualties, because civilians were trapped in crossfire, and harming civilians on purpose.

So there is a big difference between death camps created by Germans or Soviets, and a bomb that by mistake fall on to a house full of civilians and not a military justified target.

So yeah, you can try to attack me in such a silly way, but trully, it does not show you in the best way, especially from intelectual point of view and capability to understand reality as complex as it is.

 

[Akim]

I guess you don;t have to wait for NATO membership to gain some access to their capabilities....

Now the transfer of information to be agreed in 12 documents. The allies refuse this time-consuming procedure.
Ukraine has the technology to create complexes of early warning and control, but this was not necessary.

 

[Akim]

you do not realise the fact that russia has inferiority complex and it always make provocative actions. i doubt you would appreciate when the enemy's bombers and fighters flying near indian airspace and territory almost once every month. raf typhoons always have to intercept and escort those rusty russian jets when they provoke around nato airspace. its infact a cold war behaviour, but this has now become kind of a regular thing. russia cant be trusted as it supports illegitimate regimes like in syria, iran and other 3d world muslim countries that are the enemies of the west.

China licks on Siberia and waiting in the wings.

 

[Akim]

Some info's.

Ukrainian military is close to B777 crash site, approx 2-3km. They also captured Torez and Shahtarsk. Info's from today.

Not yet liberated.

 

[Akim]

What are those blackwater guys doing in Kiev very recently ??

Even if you believe in your words - Blackwater private organization

 

[bose]

No, I don't say that all things were fully justified.

What I say, that there is a difference between a combat casualties, because civilians were trapped in crossfire, and harming civilians on purpose.

So there is a big difference between death camps created by Germans or Soviets, and a bomb that by mistake fall on to a house full of civilians and not a military justified target.

So yeah, you can try to attack me in such a silly way, but trully, it does not show you in the best way, especially from intelectual point of view and capability to understand reality as complex as it is.

You have got a very good sense of humor just like the Americans do...

If you can justify use of Orange gas on civilians in Vietnam by Americans as part of the war... So do what Germans and Russians did to inferior Polish people...

 

[bose]

Even if you believe in your words - Blackwater private organization

But controlled by CIA ...

 

[Akim]

But controlled by CIA ...

But the Maidan, which stands in Kiev, under the control of the FSB. Do you paranoid.

 

[Akim]

You have got a very good sense of humor just like the Americans do...

If you can justify use of Orange gas on civilians in Vietnam by Americans as part of the war... So do what Germans and Russians did to inferior Polish people...

Where modern Russia brought peace?

 

[Damian]

You have got a very good sense of humor just like the Americans do...

If you can justify use of Orange gas on civilians in Vietnam by Americans as part of the war... So do what Germans and Russians did to inferior Polish people...

Well, if you can't understand difference between death camps, and combat use of a weapon system that may have effects also on civilians, then well... what can I do?

It is like you would say someone kill civilians on purpose because they are in area occupied by enemy and were hit by artillery barrage.

But world is not that simple as you think, combat is not that simple. Even today when situational awareness of most militaries around the world is greater than 20, 30, 70 years ago, and guided ammunition is widespread, still civilians suffer due to combat between both sides participating in a conflict.

It is a nature of war.

But yeah, I get it, you just try to use eristics to compromise your adversary in discussion, because arguments failed.

 

[W.G.Ewald]

Well, if you can't understand difference between death camps, and combat use of a weapon system that may have effects also on civilians, then well... what can I do?

It is like you would say someone kill civilians on purpose because they are in area occupied by enemy and were hit by artillery barrage.

But world is not that simple as you think, combat is not that simple. Even today when situational awareness of most militaries around the world is greater than 20, 30, 70 years ago, and guided ammunition is widespread, still civilians suffer due to combat between both sides participating in a conflict.

It is a nature of war.

But yeah, I get it, you just try to use eristics to compromise your adversary in discussion, because arguments failed.

Agent Orange was a defoliant used during the Vietnam War which contained dioxin, not a chemical warfare agent.

CDC - Veterans Health - Vietnam Studies - Agent Orange Validation Study

 

[bose]

But the Maidan, which stands in Kiev, under the control of the FSB. Do you paranoid.

Under the Neo Nazi fascists ...