Civil war in Ukraine

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scatterStorm

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However, the West is trading with us. Moreover. There are many countries that buy our products. We will not be at a loss. Look at Turkey. A hundred years ago, Britain built warships for it, now Turkey itself is building ships for others.
Turkey's economy is now printing money because its prez committed suicide by buying S400 systems from Russia to protect its borders. Classic case of American Hegemony at its best.
 

Akim

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Let's start with why in a country where the majority speaks Russian, and Kiev spoke 90 percent Russian, Russian is not a state language? Why every president promised to introduce the Russian state language, then deceived his voters.
As for Ukrainian schools in Russia, we do not have a compact residence of Ukrainian-speaking residents. It was suggested many times: collect signatures for the introduction of teaching in Ukrainian - there were no volunteers. All Ukrainians, moving to Russia, did not need to teach their children in Ukrainian in any significant amount in order to get at least one school.
Even in 2012 there was a majority against the second language. Now even more so.
 

scatterStorm

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Just wait. The more you give money the more they ask. See with Pakistan and Sri Lanka.
When you don't give then the problem start. You cannot bribe and buy everyone as if ur pocket is unlimited. It is a mistake done by all empires until they collapse.
It's like that relative who keeps asking you money without any shame and gets piss off the moment you say no.
Checkbook Diplomacy. Look now, Sri Lanka and Pakis are trembling in its weight. Just like Turkey, an economic suicide underway.
 

scatterStorm

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If India also bites off the territory, then they may be worse. But the Indians are not an expansive nation.
Not true, Sri Lanka historically was a part of Ashoka's Empire, meaning part of India. In fact culturally and religiously its also has been a part. The Vedas speaks for itself.

If push comes to shove, will have it, an island with Guam like capabilities.
 

Akim

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Turkey's economy is now printing money because its prez committed suicide by buying S400 systems from Russia to protect its borders. Classic case of American Hegemony at its best.
However, Turkey is creating its own tank, helicopter, 5th generation fighters.
The fall of the lyre is temporary.
 

alphacentury

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The problem is today China shits more on amreekunts in ways that Russia cannot because of demographic advantage. Yet will sanction russians 300000000000000000000000000000000000000 times but not once China. Will show aukaat by doing freedom of navigation ops in soverign territories in Japan come as close as 10 feet to shores without even asking let alone taking permissions then going to ukraine and doing full raaand rona on sovereignty and demonizing russia in every filthy way.
Russia is on their radar foremost, because its a supposedly white country. China is a totally outside race or class and ofc falls in enemy category. But, Russia is supposed to be on their side(under their thumb), in this world order. All major anglo/european nations are under amrika's hegemony, only Russia remains. And the current day ideological path Russia has chosen(religious nationalism, healthy conservatism as putin puts it) is totally antithetical to the ideology of west.

But all this wouldn't matter if putin was being putin somewhere in asia or some african country. Its not so surprising actually. If you are a mob boss, you ofc have enemy/rivalry gangs. But you go with full force after the rat/traitor in your family who has switched sides, to make an example. Also, this is a downstream effect of monotheistic faith/ideology:crazy:, but thats for another day.
 

scatterStorm

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Is the territorial integrity of Ukraine a cause worth America’s fighting a war with Russia?

No, it is not. And this is why Joe Biden has declared that the U.S. will not become militarily involved should Russia invade Ukraine. Biden is saying that, no matter their sentiments, their vital interests dictate staying out of a Russia-Ukraine war.

But why then does Secretary of State Antony Blinken continue to insist there is an "open door" for Ukraine to NATO membership – when that would require them to do what U.S. vital interests dictate they not do: fight a war with Russia for Ukraine?

NATO’s "open door policy" is based on Article 10, which declares that NATO members, "may, by unanimous agreement, invite any other European State … to accede to this Treaty." Moreover, membership is open to "any other European State in a position to further the principles of this Treaty and to contribute to the security of the North Atlantic area."

Note that NATO admission requires "unanimous" consent of all 30 present members. Blinken has often stated this as U.S. policy: "From our perspective, NATO’s door is open and remains open, and that is our commitment."

What Blinken is saying is this: While America will not fight for Ukraine today, America remains open to Ukraine’s accession to NATO, in which event US would have to fight for Ukraine tomorrow, were it attacked by Russia.

What the U.S. needs to do is to say with clarity that while Ukraine is free to apply to NATO, NATO is free to veto that application, and the enlargement of NATO beyond its present eastern frontiers is over, done.

In this crisis, people need to recall how and why NATO was created.

In 1949, the year China fell to Mao Zedong and Joseph Stalin exploded an atom bomb, USA formed NATO as a defensive alliance to prevent a Russian drive west, from the Elbe to the Rhine to the Channel. Of the original 12 members of NATO, the U.S. and Canada were on the western side of the Atlantic. Iceland and the U.K. were islands in the Atlantic. France and Portugal were on the Atlantic’s eastern shore.

Denmark, Belgium, Holland and Luxembourg were astride the avenue of attack the Red Army would have to take to reach the Channel. Norway was the lone original NATO nation that shared a border with the USSR itself. Italy was the 12th member.

Clearly, this was a defensive alliance to prevent a Soviet invasion of Western Europe such as Hitler had executed in the spring of 1940, when Nazi Germany overran Denmark, Norway, Belgium, Holland, Luxembourg and France, and threw the British off the continent at Dunkirk.

Nations that joined NATO during the Cold War were Greece and Turkey in 1952, Germany in 1955, and Spain in 1982.

But, with the end of the Cold War, the dissolution of the Warsaw Pact, the overthrow of Soviet Communism, and the breakup of the USSR into 15 nations by 1991, NATO, its goal – the defense of Central and Western Europe – achieved, its job done, did not go out of business.

Instead, NATO added 14 new members and moved almost 1,000 miles east, into Russia’s front yard and then onto Russia’s front porch. The Czech Republic, Hungary and Poland joined in 1999. Bulgaria, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Romania, Slovakia and Slovenia became NATO nations in 2004. Albania and Croatia joined in 2009, Montenegro in 2017, and North Macedonia in 2020.

Understandably, Russian President Vladimir Putin asked himself: To what end, and for what beneficent purpose, was this doubling in size of an alliance that was formed to contain us, and, if necessary, fight a war against Mother Russia?

Alliances, which involve war guarantees, commitments to fight in defense of the allied nations, invariably carry costs and risks as well as rewards and benefits in terms of strengthened security. But when America brought Lithuania, Latvia and Estonia into NATO, what benefits in added strength did they receive to justify the provocation this would be to Russia, and the risk it might entail if Moscow objected and, one fine day, walked back into these Baltic states?

If USA will not fight for the independence and territorial integrity of Ukraine, the second largest nation in Europe with a population of over 40 million people, why would they go to war with a nuclear-armed Russia over Estonia, a tiny and almost indefensible nation with a population of 1.3 million?

Besides Ukraine, two nations have been considering membership in NATO: Finland and Georgia. Accession of either would put NATO on yet another border of Russia, with the usual U.S. bases and forces.

While this would enrage Russia, how would it make America stronger?

Perhaps, instead of adding new nations on whose behalf US will go to war with a great power like Russia, USA should consider reducing the roster of NATO and restricting the number of nations for whom they must fight to those nations that are vital to America's security and bring added strength to the alliance.

MICIMATT, which has been in charge now for decades, loves NATO. It's been one of the best and most reliable bringers of $ they ever invented. NATO expansion means only one thing: a huge increase in a captive market for US arms. The War Machine keeps earning money on the blood and bodies of thousands foolish enough to fall in their trap.
Article 10 is like that pyramid scheme, where you invite others, you get double or triple when they join in.

Now somebody please insert "Jor Jor sai bol ker sabko scheme bata dey" meme.

:yo:
 

scatterStorm

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1) Again you are drawing conclusions on the basis of abstractions. Japan had to do something to survive.When unequal treaties were forced on countries of East Asia including Japan, Japand had the choice of either radically restructuring her society or suffering defeat and humiliation by the predatory amreekunts and britfags.When Japan also began to apply the lessons it learned from eurfags imperialism the countries on west reacted negatively because how a tiny Asian country is able to rise...

2) And the departure was way faster as between that plassey (1757) and the 1857 war was a hundred years. Between the 1857 War and Indian Independence (1947) was only ninety. Britfags lost control fast. How is this even relevant in context of ukraine. You are derailing.

3)When it comes to history of BHARAT we have enough materials as all volumes of epigraphia Indica or be it that the Case for India by Will Durant or be it 11 volumes of The History and Culture of the Indian People” viz RC Majumdar etc etc etc . How is this related?

4) You were women until last year probably amreekunt colour revolution turned you men.

5) Those are repercussions of communism in the long run and a combination of things.two world wars and the hardest losses of the country (both economic and human).Though moskva obiliterated nutjobnazis devoured all of their panzers, pooped on luftwaffe in that great patriotic war but for example the Communist party of the ussr lost more than 2.5 million active party members. In fact, the entire Communist elite died in battle. Now imagine that you have some kind of state structure that has lost its best part - the most motivated, trained and competent people who formed the basis of this structure.

All the points you are digging are irrelavant to this thread.


There are millions of russians in ukraine who are denied their right of life you being paid amreekunt zombies are in full denial.
Point 1 is absolutely correct, post WW2 it was the Japanese citizens who understood that the best way to slap the west and Anglo Saxons was to teach them who is the king in there own game. They literally dominated the economy since 1970s to 2000 with there Index creating records compared to NASDAQ. Some say the whole reason for Japanese Empire to attack pearl harbor was because of the ill treatment of the Japanese by the EIC (East Indian Company) and there destabilization of Japanese culture such as Animal Flesh eating, beef etc.

A very good documentary.

Point 4, classic case of woke culture influence on a women trying to be man.

 

scatterStorm

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However, Turkey is creating its own tank, helicopter, 5th generation fighters.
The fall of the lyre is temporary.
Cyclical? Maybe. Defense Industry always get benefitted when you have tension nearby. Take your countries case. In fact, Erdogan is acting as an ally to Ukraine, a dog coming back to its master (West) after its lost its way.
 

Optimistic Nihilist

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Point 1 is absolutely correct, post WW2 it was the Japanese citizens who understood that the best way to slap the west and Anglo Saxons was to teach them who is the king in there own game. They literally dominated the economy since 1970s to 2000 with there Index creating records compared to NASDAQ. Some say the whole reason for Japanese Empire to attack pearl harbor was because of the ill treatment of the Japanese by the EIC (East Indian Company) and there destabilization of Japanese culture such as Animal Flesh eating, beef etc.

A very good documentary.

Point 4, classic case of woke culture influence on a women trying to be man.

That's definitely not a secret, it's just been buried by the Americunt victor WW2 propaganda. Pearl Harbor was nowhere near a "innocent bystander attacked out of the blue" incident just like the sinking of the Lusitania in WW1 wasn't unprovoked.

The US took hostile and provocative actions towards Japan before Pearl Harbor even explicitly mentioning in private that it is being done to provoke an overt reaction from Japan which will make USA enter the war.

In November 1940, Roosevelt loaned China one hundred million dollars for war with Japan, and after consulting with the British, US Secretary of the Treasury Henry Morgenthau made plans to send the Chinese bombers with US crews to use in bombing Tokyo and other Japanese cities.

On December 21, 1940, China’s Minister of Finance T.V. Soong and Colonel Claire Chennault, a retired US Army flier who was working for the Chinese and had been urging them to use American pilots to bomb Tokyo since at least 1937, met in Morgenthau’s dining room to plan the firebombing of Japan. Morgenthau said he could get men released from duty in the US Army Air Corps if the Chinese could pay them $1,000 per month. Soong agreed.

In 1939-1940, the US Navy built new Pacific bases in Midway, Johnston, Palmyra, Wake, Guam, Samoa, and Hawaii.

On October 7, 1940, the director of the US Office of Naval Intelligence Far East Asia Section Arthur McCollum wrote a memo. He worried about possible future Axis threats to the British fleet, to the British Empire, and to the Allies’ ability to blockade Europe. He speculated about a theoretical future Axis attack on the United States. He believed decisive action could lead to the “early collapse of Japan.He recommended war with Japan:

“While . . . there is little that the United States can do to immediately retrieve the situation in Europe, the United States is able to effectively nullify Japanese aggressive action, and do it without lessening US material assistance to Great Britain.

“. . . In the Pacific the United States possesses a very strong defensive position and a navy and naval air force at present in that ocean capable of long distance offensive operation. There are certain other factors which at the present time are strongly in our favor, viz:

Philippine Islands still held by the United States.
Friendly and possibly allied government in control of the Dutch East Indies.
British still hold Hong Kong and Singapore and are favorable to us.
Important Chinese armies are still in the field in China against Japan.
A small US Naval Force capable of seriously threatening Japan’s southern supply routes already in the theater of operations.

A considerable Dutch naval force is in the Orient that would be of value if allied to US

“A consideration of the foregoing leads to the conclusion that prompt aggressive naval action against Japan by the United States would render Japan incapable of affording any help to Germany and Italy in their attack on England and that Japan itself would be faced with a situation in which her navy could be forced to fight on most unfavorable terms or accept fairly early collapse of the country through the force of blockade.

A prompt and early declaration of war after entering into suitable arrangements with England and Holland, would be most effective in bringing about the early collapse of Japan and thus eliminating our enemy in the pacific before Germany and Italy could strike at us effectively. Furthermore, elimination of Japan must surely strengthen Britain’s position against Germany and Italy and, in addition, such action would increase the confidence and support of all nations who tend to be friendly towards us.

“It is not believed that in the present state of political opinion the United States government is capable of declaring war against Japan without more ado; and it is barely possible that vigorous action on our part might lead the Japanese to modify their attitude. Therefore, the following course of action is suggested:

Make an arrangement with Britain for the use of British bases in the Pacific, particularly Singapore.
Make an arrangement with Holland for the use of base facilities and acquisition of supplies in the Dutch East Indies.

Give all possible aid to the Chinese government of Chiang-Kai-Shek.
Send a division of long range heavy cruisers to the Orient, Philippines, or Singapore.
Send two divisions of submarines to the Orient.
Keep the main strength of the US fleet now in the Pacific in the vicinity of the Hawaiian Islands.
Insist that the Dutch refuse to grant Japanese demands for economic concessions, particularly oil.
Completely embargo all US trade with Japan, in collaboration with a similar embargo imposed by the British Empire.


If by these means Japan could be led to commit an overt act of war, so much the better. At all events we must be fully prepared to accept war.”

Note the one point about keeping the fleet in Hawaii –part of a nefarious plot to get more ships destroyed in a dramatic attack (not a particularly successful plot, as only two ships were permanently destroyed).

Not just that one point – which is significant with or without such a plot – but all eight recommendations made in the memo or at least steps similar to them were pursued. These steps were aimed at intentionally or accidentally (the distinction is a fine one) starting a war, and they seem to have worked. Work on the recommendations, coincidentally or not, began on October 8, 1940, the very next day after the memo was written.

On that date, the US State Department told Americans to evacuate Eastern Asia. Also on that date, President Roosevelt ordered the fleet kept in Hawaii. Admiral James O. Richardson wrote later that he had strongly objected to the proposal and to its purpose.

“Sooner or later,” he quoted Roosevelt as having said, “the Japanese would commit an overt act against the United States and the nation would finally become willing to enter the war.”
 

Akim

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Cyclical? Maybe. Defense Industry always get benefitted when you have tension nearby. Take your countries case. In fact, Erdogan is acting as an ally to Ukraine, a dog coming back to its master (West) after its lost its way.
Even 30 years ago, Turkey bought cars, trucks, trams, trains. In general, everything. Now she makes it herself.
But the conversation began, that without the Russian market, Ukraine would slide into an agrarian economy.
Look at the plant in Tokmak, which was bought by a Russian investor. He just destroyed the competition.
I don't blame. That's what everyone does. But there is no need to talk about Russian altruism.
1643832830048.jpeg
 

scatterStorm

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Biden said, no troops to Ukraine, rumors coming in 3000 troops a ready to be deployed.
West escalating tensions more. If they did, Russians will attack.
 

Flash12

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Is there a Ukrainian flag in Donetsk? But there are plenty of Russians. Mariupol is also close to the front, but the mayor's office buys new buses, and the occupation administration of Donetsk receives used ones. as humanitarian aid. And he talks about a great achievement - a payphone with a router.
Look at its size on a map and ask yourself why goats are grazing in a modern European stadium.
Where did the modern machines go? Where is the Topaz factory and dozens of other factories.
Where is the new Czech equipment from the Lugansk Cartridge Plant? In the city, even tram rails were stolen. I'll get tired of listing why we hate Russia as a state.
Is there also a "Ukrainian world" in Sukhumi, in Tskhinvali and Tiraspol?
Find a video on YouTube of how Russian tourists are beaten in Abkhazia?
I now live in Odessa. There is no Russian flag and it is calm here.
Are you an idiot? Donetsk is practically on the front line with shelling from the Ukrainian artillery of its outskirts, and you still ask with a wink, why does it live so badly and why is its stadium abandoned? If Donetsk were in Russia, it would flourish and become rich. As well as other Russian large cities. Moreover, Donetsk is a city with industry. These are unrecognized republics and their products cannot be officially exported anywhere.
Sukhumi, in Tskhinvali and Tiraspol are all unrecognized republics as well. Abkhazians don't let Russian business in, it's their business. They live how they want. Your American Georgia also does not show miracles of prosperity. As well as "Ukrainian world". Tiraspol does not border Russia at all. If you want to see where the "Russian world" came from, look at the Crimea. How the infrastructure is developing there, this is not even seen in your Kiev and will not be seen for many years to come.
 

Flash12

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Even in 2012 there was a majority against the second language. Now even more so.
Did famous Ukrainian sociological centers tell you about this? Yes, yes, people who speak Russian were against the Russian being one of the state language. They just like being masochists. What fairytales will you tell us more?
 

Akim

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Are you an idiot? Donetsk is practically on the front line with shelling from the Ukrainian artillery of its outskirts, and you still ask with a wink, why does it live so badly and why is its stadium abandoned? If Donetsk were in Russia, it would flourish and become rich. As well as other Russian large cities. Moreover, Donetsk is a city with industry. These are unrecognized republics and their products cannot be officially exported anywhere.
Sukhumi, in Tskhinvali and Tiraspol are all unrecognized republics as well. Abkhazians don't let Russian business in, it's their business. They live how they want. Your American Georgia also does not show miracles of prosperity. As well as "Ukrainian world". Tiraspol does not border Russia at all. If you want to see where the "Russian world" came from, look at the Crimea. How the infrastructure is developing there, this is not even seen in your Kiev and will not be seen for many years to come.
Crimea, like Chechnya, is just a showcase. In the Soviet Union, foreigners were allowed to travel to big cities for this very reason.
 

Akim

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Did famous Ukrainian sociological centers tell you about this? Yes, yes, people who speak Russian were against the Russian being one of the state language. They just like being masochists. What fairytales will you tell us more?
I speak Russian and I'm against it. Keep believing that Russia is waiting here.:crazy:
 

Flash12

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Is there a Ukrainian flag in Donetsk? But there are plenty of Russians. Mariupol is also close to the front, but the mayor's office buys new buses, and the occupation administration of Donetsk receives used ones. as humanitarian aid. And he talks about a great achievement - a payphone with a router.
Look at its size on a map and ask yourself why goats are grazing in a modern European stadium.
Where did the modern machines go? Where is the Topaz factory and dozens of other factories.
Where is the new Czech equipment from the Lugansk Cartridge Plant? In the city, even tram rails were stolen. I'll get tired of listing why we hate Russia as a state.
Is there also a "Ukrainian world" in Sukhumi, in Tskhinvali and Tiraspol?
Find a video on YouTube of how Russian tourists are beaten in Abkhazia?
I now live in Odessa. There is no Russian flag and it is calm here.
By the way, tell us about the successes and prosperity of Ukraine with its "Ukrainian world", as well as about the successes of the "European and American world" that came to Ukraine.
 

Akim

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By the way, tell us about the successes and prosperity of Ukraine with its "Ukrainian world", as well as about the successes of the "European and American world" that came to Ukraine.
You saw the video. And so everywhere.
 
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