Civil war in Ukraine

[Akim]

IMF loans only function is to destroy the countries sovereign economy to allow the IMF stockholders to buy the countries actives for cheap.

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You do not want - do not take!

 

[Akim]

Oh, come on!
If it could be a Russian invasion this will be ended in Lvov in 12 hours.
The rest of the job could take 2weeks max.
As I can see, Syria has tought yoy nothing.

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You've already said it.
Pavel Grachev boasted, too, that the capture of Grozny in 2 hours.

 

[gadeshi]

You've already said it.
Pavel Grachev boasted, too, that the capture of Grozny in 2 hours.

It's rather stupid to compare Yeltsin (or immediate post-Yeltsin) times Russian Army and nowadays completely new one.
Yes, the current Russian Army will get Ukraine's strategic points in 8-12 hours and will clean it all in the next 2 weeks. This is not only my oppinion but some of the German and American generals as well.

 

[Akim]

It's rather stupid to compare Yeltsin (or immediate post-Yeltsin) times Russian Army and nowadays completely new one.
Yes, the current Russian Army will get Ukraine's strategic points in 8-12 hours and will clean it all in the next 2 weeks. This is not only my oppinion but some of the German and American generals as well.

Do you think Putin has become more efficient units? With the collapse of the Soviet Union took place only three years, many officers had experience in Afghanistan. However, in order to capture the city, it was the collapse of the power of the North- Caucasus County, including Tochka-U and the bombing. Capture Debalcevo found that little has changed. Only the correction of artillery was the best because the UAV used. But still. Half of the small town razed to the ground.

 

[gadeshi]

Do you think Putin has become more efficient detachments? With the collapse of the Soviet Union took place only three years, many officers had experience in Afghanistan. However, in order to capture the city, it was the collapse of the power of the North- Caucasus County, including Tochka-U and the bombing. Capture Debalcevo found that little has changed. Only the correction of artillery was the best because the UAV used. But still. Half of the small town razed to the ground.

Debaltsevo was captured by Donbass Peoples army without any Russian army assistance.
If there were Russians there, Debaltsevo could fell in 2-3 hours due to all the defensive positions could be precicely destroyed by network-centric guided artillery and aviation. Army aviation helicopters could make a road to hell in all the Debaltsevo routes making impossible to flee for even those few dozens of ukrops who has managed to out from there.

But as I've mentioned several times earlier, Russian Army will not capture Ukrainian cities because it doesn't required for victory and NATO denial operation.
It's required to destroy 50 key targets to kill Ukrainian government and army control systems and all the air defence. Then Russians will capture airfields in western and central Ukraine, Odessa and Nikolayev to be able to deliver S-400 heavy ADS and Iskander-M OTBMs to old soviet RSD-10 Pioneer IRBM patrol areas and those areas themselves.
That's all. Ukraine is downed.
Cities will wait some time and will be captured (most cases simply entered : ) ) in 1 or two weeks.

 

[Akim]

Debaltsevo was captured by Donbass Peoples army without any Russian army assistance.
If there were Russians there, Debaltsevo could fell in 2-3 hours due to all the defensive positions could be precicely destroyed by network-centric guided artillery and aviation. Army aviation helicopters could make a road to hell in all the Debaltsevo routes making impossible to flee for even those few dozens of ukrops who has managed to out from there.

But as I've mentioned several times earlier, Russian Army will not capture Ukrainian cities because it doesn't required for victory and NATO denial operation.
It's required to destroy 50 key targets to kill Ukrainian government and army control systems and all the air defence. Then Russians will capture airfields in western and central Ukraine, Odessa and Nikolayev to be able to deliver S-400 heavy ADS and Iskander-M OTBMs to old soviet RSD-10 Pioneer IRBM patrol areas and those areas themselves.
That's all. Ukraine is downed.
Cities will wait some time and will be captured (most cases simply entered : ) ) in 1 or two weeks.

How many have lost the Russian aircraft from the small Georgian air defenses? Therefore Kobzon visited charred tanker-Buryat? I find it hard to argue in English. Want to bet - write me a PM.

You can deify the Russian army, however, over the last month the bombings in Syria, little has changed and it is at the FSA are not normal air defenses.

 

[gadeshi]

How many have lost the Russian aircraft from the small Georgian air defenses? Therefore Kobzon visited charred tanker-Buryat? I find it hard to argue in English. Want to bet - write me a PM.

1 - It was BEFORE the great military and governmental reformings which took place directly after 888 war and was driven by that war results and conclusions.
2 - Russians have lost 8 aircrafts. Due to command stupidity first of all. They haven't managed to provide ECM support for them and Mi-8MTPR were engaged only after that losses. These helos have killed all the Georgian AD for the last operation time.
3 - Georgian AD was... Ukrainian! Yushchenko has given Saakaschvilly 2 divizions of Buk-M1 and surviallance radar.

There are 7 years of hard work and substantial investments have passed. We all can see results of those efforts who have eyes open and minds sane.

About Syria:
There are LOTS of achievements in Syria. And first of all - ISIS infrastructure destruction and key position regions siezed by SAA from ISIS. The main goal of those bombing was to destroy infrastructure to make it very hard for Americans, Turkish and Israeli to supply ISIS with menpower, supplies and weapons. The second was to "filter out" the opposition to find those guys who will not want to die under the bombs and will make alliance with Assad against ISIS. Or at least will go for negotiations (now taking place in Vienna).
So, almost all of the goals of Syrian operations was reached.

 

[Akim]

1 - It was BEFORE the great military and governmental reformings which took place directly after 888 war and was driven by that war results and conclusions.
2 - Russians have lost 8 aircrafts. Due to command stupidity first of all. They haven't managed to provide ECM support for them and Mi-8MTPR were engaged only after that losses. These helos have killed all the Georgian AD for the last operation time.
3 - Georgian AD was... Ukrainian! Yushchenko has given Saakaschvilly 2 divizions of Buk-M1 and surviallance radar.

There are 7 years of hard work and substantial investments have passed. We all can see results of those efforts who have eyes open and minds sane.

The professionalism of the Russian military can be estimated by downed MН-17.

 

[gadeshi]

The professionalism of the Russian military can be estimated by downed MН-17.

MH-17 was shot down by Ukrainians.
There were no evidence for Russian track version and no common sence for Russians to do so.
But Ukrainians COULD do this objectively and had MAJOR NEED TO DO THIS to halt Donbass army advance and avoid Southern Boilers disaster of Ukrainian army. If Boeing could fall in the active battle actions area, Ukrainians could demant immediate war halt "to grant the experts a green zone for investigation" and save their troops from boilers under the experts cover.
Ukrainian masters from US had also a great demand to do it to lay sanctions to Russia using Boeing as a loud cause. Theey have actually done this way in only except that Russian guilt is not approved.

 

[Akim]

MH-17 was shot down by Ukrainians.
There were no evidence for Russian track version and no common sence for Russians to do so.
But Ukrainians COULD do this objectively and had MAJOR NEED TO DO THIS to halt Donbass army advance and avoid Southern Boilers disaster of Ukrainian army. If Boeing could fall in the active battle actions area, Ukrainians could demant immediate war halt "to grant the experts a green zone for investigation" and save their troops from boilers under the experts cover.
Ukrainian masters from US had also a great demand to do it to lay sanctions to Russia using Boeing as a loud cause. Theey have actually done this way in only except that Russian guilt is not approved.

Of course. A slingshot. I'm on this forum a year ago, wrote that it was only missiles "ground-to-air." If the object is struck in the rear part of the fuselage - did the Ukrainian military in the front - the Russian military.

 

[gadeshi]

Of course. A slingshot. I'm on this forum a year ago, wrote that it was only missiles "ground-to-air." If the object is struck in the rear part of the fuselage - did the Ukrainian military in the front - the Russian military.

Just take the map and draw a circle of Buk M1 effective radiuses for the whole division, a battery and a single TEL, then resolve a 7 class Physics task about the entity of 200 tons mass thrown from 10000m under the angle of 0 degs with a speed of 900km/h, which will give you the craft heat point in 140-160 km from Torez, and you will confirm yourself that you are a moron.

 

[Akim]

Just take the map and draw a circle of Buk M1 effective radiuses for the whole division, a battery and a single TEL, then resolve a 7 class Physics task about the entity of 200 tons mass thrown from 10000m under the angle of 0 degs with a speed of 900km/h, which will give you the craft heat point in 140-160 km from Torez, and you will confirm yourself that you are a moron.

How would you not tried to justify, to the Dutch investigators can not affect Nobody places, SAM this class, on the front line of defense / attack.

When the militants (or the Russian army) downed Ukrainian MiG-29 of SAM "OSA".fell by 5 km from the point of impact. He did not plan to 20 km.

 

[gadeshi]

How would you not tried to justify, to the Dutch investigators can not affect Nobody places, SAM this class, on the front line of defense / attack.

Dutch experts has "investigated" nothing making Captain Obvious level "report" and breaking ICAO rules which demand to allow all the interesting sides to participate in investigation. Also the result of such an investigation MUST BE published in no longer than 2 months since it was started.
So, Russia will investigate all this itself as an ICAO seniour member with requirement to give it all the assets found on Donbass.
Russian track in this tragedy can be justified by ignorant morons who doesn't know anything about Buk SAM complex and its abilities and had not learn a proper school course of physics properly.

 

[Akim]

Dutch experts has "investigated" nothing making Captain Obvious level "report" and breaking ICAO rules which demand to allow all the interesting sides to participate in investigation. Also the result of such an investigation MUST BE published in no longer than 2 months since it was started.
So, Russia will investigate all this itself as an ICAO seniour member with requirement to give it all the assets found on Donbass.
Russian track in this tragedy can be justified by ignorant morons who doesn't know anything about Buk SAM complex and its abilities and had not learn a proper school course of physics properly.

They said that it was a missile "Buk". SAM "Buk" "can control only trained professionals. Therefore, put the blame on militants Girkin not succeed.

 

[gadeshi]

They said that it was a missile "Buk". SAM "Buk" "can control only trained professionals. Therefore, put the blame on militants Girkin not succeed.

Yes, and thus only Ukrainian army can be blamed in that.

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[Akim]

Yes, and thus only Ukrainian army can be blamed in that.

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Continue to hope.
.....................................................

 

[gadeshi]

Continue to hope.
.....................................................

Actually I don't believe in Buk version at all, because I haven't seen many 9M38 missile penetration particles signs on the wrecks.
But I've seen signs of 30mm rounds on the canopy skin parts and left wing panels.
And the best part - a rod fragmentation warhead marks on the left wing parts and left engine wreckage parts which points to AAM only.
Su-25 COULD hit the Boeing, but I dought that it was Su-25, because 30mm rounds marks were precise and dense, which is not achievable for Gsh-302 cannon (Su-25) but points to GSh-301 cannon (Su-27 and MiG-29).
Also the rods marks pointed to the AA missile that is several times heavier than R-60M used on Su-25. This also points to Su-27 and MiG-29 which have R-27R/T (ER/ET) MRAAMs and R-73RMD1/1 heavy SRAAMs with such a warheads.
As far as there are no MiG-29s were in the air that day, this could be only Su-27P from Kulbakino (Dnipropetrovsk) or Vasilkov (Kiev region).

 

[Akim]

Actually I don't believe in Buk version at all, because I haven't seen many 9M38 missile penetration particles signs on the wrecks.
But I've seen signs of 30mm rounds on the canopy skin parts and left wing panels.
And the best part - a rod fragmentation warhead marks on the left wing parts and left engine wreckage parts which points to AAM only.
Su-25 COULD hit the Boeing, but I dought that it was Su-25, because 30mm rounds marks were precise and dense, which is not achievable for Gsh-302 cannon (Su-25) but points to GSh-301 cannon (Su-27 and MiG-29).
Also the rods marks pointed to the AA missile that is several times heavier than R-60M used on Su-25. This also points to Su-27 and MiG-29 which have R-27R/T (ER/ET) MRAAMs and R-73RMD1/1 heavy SRAAMs with such a warheads.
As far as there are no MiG-29s were in the air that day, this could be only Su-27P from Kulbakino (Dnipropetrovsk) or Vasilkov (Kiev region).

Which version had a right to exist, as long as you did not find submunitions from Buck.

 

[Kshatriya87]

http://blogs.ft.com/beyond-brics/2015/10/29/ukraine-says-thank-you-to-vladimir-putin/

Ukraine says thank you to Vladimir Putin

Last Sunday Ukraine held elections to local councils and city mayors that the Organisation for Security and Cooperation in Europe described as “competitive and well organized overall” adding that “the campaign generally showed respect for the democratic process”.

The holding of a third democratic election in Ukraine since last year’s Euromaidan revolution in a region where free elections are uncommon is one of many signs of how far Ukraine is moving away from Russia and to what extent the actions of Vladimir Putin, Russia’s president, have accelerated this process.

Russia’s increasingly ‘hard authoritarian’ state and its support for re-Sovietisation and re-Stalinisation can be contrasted with democratisation, removal of Soviet monuments and Communist symbols and a long-term de-Stalinisation taking place in Ukraine. A majority of Ukrainians – unlike Putin and many Russians – do not lament the disintegration of the USSR.

Russia’s aggression in Ukraine has rebounded in five ways.

Politically: following the disintegration of the pro-Russian Party of Regions and the Communist Party, these parties no longer command major support in the Ukrainian parliament. Since 2014, Ukraine has for the first time had a constitutional majority of deputies who support European integration.

Patriotism and national identity: Russian aggression has inadvertently forged a new civic Ukrainian national identity and integrated Ukrainian and Russian speakers. Russia’s aggression in eastern and southern Ukraine was defeated not by the Ukrainian state, which barely existed in the first half of 2014, but by a people’s war of Russian and Ukrainian speaking Ukrainians, Jews and others. As an extension of the Euromaidan popular protests, the people’s war included soldiers, volunteers and civil society support groups staffed largely by women.

Putin’s authoritarian Russia finds it impossible to comprehend how individuals can act autonomously without the authorities issuing demands; indeed, when Russian citizens show initiative and backbone, as vividly seen in the 2014 film Leviathan, they are crushed by the all-powerful state.

A second unexplainable factor for Putin’s Russia is how the majority of Ukraine’s Russian speakers showed themselves to be Ukrainian patriots and opposed to the Russian World and Eurasian Union. Russia, which portrays all Ukrainians opposed to joining these two bodies as ‘fascists’, finds it incomprehensible that separatists and Russian forces are fighting against Russian-speaking Ukrainians and Jews. In Ukraine, the country with the freest Russian-speaking media in the world, it is not surprising Ukrainians do not believe language is a major concern, while 82 per cent of Ukraine’s Russian speakers say they do not feel threatened (the reason given by Putin for his annexation of Crimea).

Religion and the Church: the Russian Orthodox Church (ROC) is in irreversible decline in Ukraine, a country that, with although only a third of Russia’s population, had until 2014 the same number of ROC parishes. Since 2014, the popularity of the ROC has collapsed while that of its main rival, the Ukrainian Orthodox Church-Kyiv Patriarch is growing. Patriarch Filaret enjoys the highest popularity of any Church leader in all regions of Ukraine; Russian Orthodox leaders have the highest distrust of Church leaders in Ukraine.

These trends will increase pressure for recognition of autocephaly (ie independence) for Ukraine’s Orthodox Church by the Orthodox Patriarch in Constantinople (Istanbul), a step that would dramatically reduce the worldwide influence of the ROC.

Attitudes to history: de-Stalinisation has been taking place in Ukraine for nearly three decades and a majority of Ukrainians view Stalin very negatively, unlike in Russia. Throughout Ukraine, including in its east and south, a majority of the population view the 1933 artificial famine (holodomor) that killed over 4m people as a ‘genocide’.

A major impact of Russian aggression has been on public attitudes to World War II. Ukraine and Europe celebrate its end on May 8, while Russia celebrates the ‘Great Patriotic War’ and Stalin as a great wartime leader on May 9. A majority of Ukrainians for the first time feel positively inclined towards the nationalist partisans who fought against the Nazis and Soviets for a decade in the 1940s. The Organisation of Ukrainian Nationalists and Ukrainian Insurgent Army, vilified by both the Soviet Union and Russia, organised the largest partisan army in World War II using the same self -organisation and creativity as found during the Euromaidan and the people’s war fighting Russia today.

Foreign policy: a majority of Ukrainians for the first time support Nato membership. Forty-nine per cent of Ukrainians support closer ties to Europe and only 8 per cent to Russia, while 64, 50 and 45 per cent of Ukrainians respectively hold positive views of the EU, the US and Nato. Public support for integration into the Russian-led Customs Union has collapsed from 40 per cent in 2011 to 17 per cent today.

A monument to Putin is unlikely to go up any time soon in Kiev. Although Ukrainians are grateful for these unintended consequences, they will also be saying its now time for Putin to leave them alone.

Taras Kuzio is a research associate at the Centre for Political and Regional Studies, Canadian Institute for Ukrainian Studies, University of Alberta and non-resident fellow at the Center for Transatlantic Relations, School of Advanced International Relations, Johns Hopkins University.

 

[gadeshi]

http://blogs.ft.com/beyond-brics/2015/10/29/ukraine-says-thank-you-to-vladimir-putin/

Ukraine says thank you to Vladimir Putin

Last Sunday Ukraine held elections to local councils and city mayors that the Organisation for Security and Cooperation in Europe described as “competitive and well organized overall” adding that “the campaign generally showed respect for the democratic process”.

The holding of a third democratic election in Ukraine since last year’s Euromaidan revolution in a region where free elections are uncommon is one of many signs of how far Ukraine is moving away from Russia and to what extent the actions of Vladimir Putin, Russia’s president, have accelerated this process.

Russia’s increasingly ‘hard authoritarian’ state and its support for re-Sovietisation and re-Stalinisation can be contrasted with democratisation, removal of Soviet monuments and Communist symbols and a long-term de-Stalinisation taking place in Ukraine. A majority of Ukrainians – unlike Putin and many Russians – do not lament the disintegration of the USSR.

Russia’s aggression in Ukraine has rebounded in five ways.

Politically: following the disintegration of the pro-Russian Party of Regions and the Communist Party, these parties no longer command major support in the Ukrainian parliament. Since 2014, Ukraine has for the first time had a constitutional majority of deputies who support European integration.

Patriotism and national identity: Russian aggression has inadvertently forged a new civic Ukrainian national identity and integrated Ukrainian and Russian speakers. Russia’s aggression in eastern and southern Ukraine was defeated not by the Ukrainian state, which barely existed in the first half of 2014, but by a people’s war of Russian and Ukrainian speaking Ukrainians, Jews and others. As an extension of the Euromaidan popular protests, the people’s war included soldiers, volunteers and civil society support groups staffed largely by women.

Putin’s authoritarian Russia finds it impossible to comprehend how individuals can act autonomously without the authorities issuing demands; indeed, when Russian citizens show initiative and backbone, as vividly seen in the 2014 film Leviathan, they are crushed by the all-powerful state.

A second unexplainable factor for Putin’s Russia is how the majority of Ukraine’s Russian speakers showed themselves to be Ukrainian patriots and opposed to the Russian World and Eurasian Union. Russia, which portrays all Ukrainians opposed to joining these two bodies as ‘fascists’, finds it incomprehensible that separatists and Russian forces are fighting against Russian-speaking Ukrainians and Jews. In Ukraine, the country with the freest Russian-speaking media in the world, it is not surprising Ukrainians do not believe language is a major concern, while 82 per cent of Ukraine’s Russian speakers say they do not feel threatened (the reason given by Putin for his annexation of Crimea).

Religion and the Church: the Russian Orthodox Church (ROC) is in irreversible decline in Ukraine, a country that, with although only a third of Russia’s population, had until 2014 the same number of ROC parishes. Since 2014, the popularity of the ROC has collapsed while that of its main rival, the Ukrainian Orthodox Church-Kyiv Patriarch is growing. Patriarch Filaret enjoys the highest popularity of any Church leader in all regions of Ukraine; Russian Orthodox leaders have the highest distrust of Church leaders in Ukraine.

These trends will increase pressure for recognition of autocephaly (ie independence) for Ukraine’s Orthodox Church by the Orthodox Patriarch in Constantinople (Istanbul), a step that would dramatically reduce the worldwide influence of the ROC.

Attitudes to history: de-Stalinisation has been taking place in Ukraine for nearly three decades and a majority of Ukrainians view Stalin very negatively, unlike in Russia. Throughout Ukraine, including in its east and south, a majority of the population view the 1933 artificial famine (holodomor) that killed over 4m people as a ‘genocide’.

A major impact of Russian aggression has been on public attitudes to World War II. Ukraine and Europe celebrate its end on May 8, while Russia celebrates the ‘Great Patriotic War’ and Stalin as a great wartime leader on May 9. A majority of Ukrainians for the first time feel positively inclined towards the nationalist partisans who fought against the Nazis and Soviets for a decade in the 1940s. The Organisation of Ukrainian Nationalists and Ukrainian Insurgent Army, vilified by both the Soviet Union and Russia, organised the largest partisan army in World War II using the same self -organisation and creativity as found during the Euromaidan and the people’s war fighting Russia today.

Foreign policy: a majority of Ukrainians for the first time support Nato membership. Forty-nine per cent of Ukrainians support closer ties to Europe and only 8 per cent to Russia, while 64, 50 and 45 per cent of Ukrainians respectively hold positive views of the EU, the US and Nato. Public support for integration into the Russian-led Customs Union has collapsed from 40 per cent in 2011 to 17 per cent today.

A monument to Putin is unlikely to go up any time soon in Kiev. Although Ukrainians are grateful for these unintended consequences, they will also be saying its now time for Putin to leave them alone.

Taras Kuzio is a research associate at the Centre for Political and Regional Studies, Canadian Institute for Ukrainian Studies, University of Alberta and non-resident fellow at the Center for Transatlantic Relations, School of Advanced International Relations, Johns Hopkins University.

Another one bullshit from say nothing "journalist".

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