Civil war in Ukraine

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sgarg

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How is MTA issue even linked to An-32??
MTA can still happen. The delays could be mostly from Indian side.
MTA is long term. Short term is C-130J where 7 planes are on order.
I believe An-32 upgrade will also happen even if delayed - through local industry. The aircraft is needed.
 

sgarg

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From Kyiv Post

ARTYOMOVSK, Ukraine – An ashen-faced man in a loose-fitting military uniform shuffles past a blood-soaked stretcher propped against the wall. Slowly stirring a cup of tea, he watches Ukrainian military officials announce the day's casualties – one killed and 20 wounded.

"Don't believe what they tell you," he says, checking the door is closed before continuing.

"There are many, many more. At least 280 were injured in just one day last week and 30 or 40 killed. There were many more killed this week, Debaltseve and Konstantinovka are the worst cities now. I take 18 wounded to Kharkiv myself every day."

The man, who didn't want to be named, is a medic in Ukraine's overstretched, under-resourced army. Clearly traumatized, he speaks quietly and hesitantly, barely audible over the low rumble of artillery fire from the outskirts of town.

His words confirm Ukraine's worst-kept secret - that the Ukrainian army is drastically understating its casualties. But only now is the scale of that understatement starting to become clear.

On Jan. 22, the director of Kostiantynivka hospital told Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe monitors that in the last two weeks that the number of soldiers admitted has "increased dramatically, with figures comparable to those in August and September 2014."

Between Aug. 10 and Sept. 3, when Russian troops first entered Ukraine in support of a beleaguered rebel force on the brink of defeat, the Kyiv Post estimates at least 200 servicemen were killed.

Many of the recent casualties are coming from areas around the besieged town of Debaltseve, a strategic rail junction between Donetsk and Luhansk oblasts, where thousands of Ukrainian soldiers are struggling to prevent being surrounded and cut off from Ukrainian lines.

The town's defenders – and its civilian population - have faced an incessant artillery bombardment from three sides since Russian-backed rebels launched a massive offensive all along the front line last week.

With the imminent threat of encirclement, speculation is rife that Ukrainian forces are planning a withdrawal from the isolated position.

But the soldiers themselves remain defiant.

Marian, a 25 year-old infantryman from the 128st Brigade, had shrapnel rip into his ribs and through his shoulder when he was hit by a rocket outside his checkpoint at Chernukhino, just outside Debaltseve.

"I don't know when it will finish. But in Debaltseve, our soldiers will stay until the end," he says firmly as he sits in a crowded, crumbling hospital ward with his wounded comrades. "Reinforcements are coming, everything is fine," he adds.

Their stand has already come at a bloody price. One soldier has a deep scar on his head where shrapnel had torn into his skull, the other heavily bandaged legs from the blast of a rocket-propelled grenade.

Despite heavy casualties, the army itself appears to have minimal resources to deal with wounded soldiers. Civilian hospitals, already ill-equipped and in desperate need of repair, now not only have to deal with vast numbers of wounded non-combatants, but also provide emergency care for soldiers.

"Usually our hospital can provide services for 23,000 people, but now it has to provide services for about 100,000 people," Olga Vladimirovna, the surgical director of Kurakhove hospital, told the Kyiv Post.

"We only provide first aid, stabilize the critically wounded and treat shock, then they are transported to Dnipropetrovsk hospital or the military hospital in Zaporozhye.

"Even so, we had to put more beds in each room - where there were four beds now there are six, where there were two, now four."

Kurakhove hospital takes wounded from around Donetsk, the scene of some of the heaviest fighting on the front. Yet they have to treat military personnel without any additional assistance from the government.

"Our pharmaceuticals fund didn't become bigger," Olga Vladimirovna says.

"We get most of our medicine from volunteers, charities, even Privat Group. Our hospital is not a military hospital, it's a hospital for citizens of our district, but in a time of war we have to help everyone."

The situation at Artyomovsk central hospital, where the wounded from Debaltseve are brought, is much the same.

"There is so much work I didn't even sit down today," says surgeon Dmitriy Bondar, after his last patient is wheeled away on an antique trolley, down a dark corridor with faded, peeling walls.

"There are many soldiers every day. There are many wounded. Always, but in the last three to five days there are so many more. I'm treating between 10 and 15 people every day from Troitskoe, Debaltseve, Popasnoe, and Dzerginsk. We get no more medication from government, only from volunteers."

Bondar is not as optimistic about the battle for Debaltseve as his patient Marian and his comrades, having seen too many young men just like them leave his care in boxes.

"The situation is bad in Debaltseve, it's bad everywhere. Yes, the soldiers are still standing at their positions ready to fight. But we don't see any help coming for them."

Kyiv Post editor Maxim Tucker can be reached at [email protected] or via Twitter @MaxRTucker

Ukraine hides devastating losses as Russia-backed fighters surge forward
 
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ghost

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Ukrainian losses from PRO-UKRAINE Western source

#Ukraine #Army #Victory LOSSES KIA 1600 WIA 4723 Tanks 35 ArmouredVehicles 96 Artillery 38 Jets 7 Choppers 2 Cars 104 pic.twitter.com/UoofB7iP0g

— Greg Galloway (@NewsCoverUp) July 25, 2014

The Ukrainian Military's Losses � The Dish
Sir,

How do you analyse the poor performance of Ukrainian military:lower moral,lack of weapons,lack of training,lack of strategy..................are the Ukrainian bad or is it that the rebel backed by Russia are very good in their tactics.
 

sgarg

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Sir,

How do you analyse the poor performance of Ukrainian military:lower moral,lack of weapons,lack of training,lack of strategy..................are the Ukrainian bad or is it that the rebel backed by Russia are very good in their tactics.
Ukrainian military's performance cannot be called poor. This conflict is characterized by BIG LIES. There is a FULL SCALE CONFLICT going on under the guise of so called ATO. The losses are characteristic of a large scale conflict.

I mentioned Ukrainian military losses of 15K some time back. Later I said that losses are higher than that. More than 2500 Ukrainian soldiers are dead in Debaltseve salient alone.

Russian losses are also high. Could have crossed 1000.

Ukrainian morale has to be low. It has suffered absolutely devastating losses. Kiev is trying to recruit fresh 50000 soldiers to throw into East again. These will also return in body-bags.
 

Kunal Biswas

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Do you like dead people ?

Ukrainian morale has to be low. It has suffered absolutely devastating losses. Kiev is trying to recruit fresh 50000 soldiers to throw into East again. These will also return in body-bags.
 

SajeevJino

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Source: Ukraine Conflict Stalls Indian AF Upgrades

@Akim, whatever happened to our Antonov-32s? Were they stolen? Sold on e-Bay? Cannibalized for parts? Used to bomb civilians in Donbass and got shot down? Perhaps you should ask your chocolate seller or Arsenic "Nuland's Boy" Yatz. You could try Nalivaichenko as well. They might know.

I am asking you because "you live in Ukraine."

lol Ignorance at peak

Quoting Anti Ukraine Elements will support your Claims, but they can't bury the Truth

[tweet]582526413829361664[/tweet]
 
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sgarg

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Do you like dead people ?
It is important to be truthful. Ukraine has had a fake revolution on a fake premise. People fell for propaganda and are now paying for with their lives.

The "right sector" and "azov" have created a reign of terror in the East of Ukraine.

Democracy means a right to choose, and a right to express. Democracy does not mean wanton killing of minority.
 

sgarg

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lol Ignorance at peak

Quoting Anti Ukraine Elements will support your Claims, but they can't bury the Truth

[tweet]582526413829361664[/tweet]
These planes were supposed to return to India some eight months back AFTER COMPLETING THE UPGRADE.

Mr Kar ONLY says he knows where the planes are. The planes are neither completed nor returned in original condition.

The Indian part of the upgrade is stopped due to lack of parts from Ukraine and Ukrainian engineers have left the country. In short Ukraine has abandoned the upgrade contract.

Little consolation that we know where the planes are!

This episode is a RED FLAG (warning) of India's dependence on foreign sources for its critical military needs. China has copied An-12 but it has plenty of home-built transports. This is a better approach.
 

Kunal Biswas

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I don`t believe that statement justify ' War Dead ' ..

Take this post as note, Before more of these get you an infraction ..

It is important to be truthful. Ukraine has had a fake revolution on a fake premise. People fell for propaganda and are now paying for with their lives.

The "right sector" and "azov" have created a reign of terror in the East of Ukraine.

Democracy means a right to choose, and a right to express. Democracy does not mean wanton killing of minority.
 

jouni

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@sgarg, my Finnish mentor told me that Ukraine crisis will not turn to WW3, so you can breath easily and do not worry.
 
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SajeevJino

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These planes were supposed to return to India some eight months back AFTER COMPLETING THE UPGRADE.

Mr Kar ONLY says he knows where the planes are. The planes are neither completed nor returned in original condition.

The Indian part of the upgrade is stopped due to lack of parts from Ukraine and Ukrainian engineers have left the country. In short Ukraine has abandoned the upgrade contract.

Little consolation that we know where the planes are!

This episode is a RED FLAG (warning) of India's dependence on foreign sources for its critical military needs. China has copied An-12 but it has plenty of home-built transports. This is a better approach.
who told you these Kind of BS
 

jouni

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Estimate of Russian lossess in Ukraine from Finnish forum

losses in Eastern Ukraine since April 2014, are in the magnitude of 15 000 dead, 30 000 wounded and 500 missing 2 = 47 500.

The largest losses are:
- 22 SpetsnazPr, Rostov (3000+)
- 45. KaartSpetsnazR, Kubinka (1600+)
- 32. MekPr, Novosibirsk (1500+)
- 24 SpetsnazPr, Novosibirsk (1100+), and
- 200. MeriJvPr, Pechenga (1000+)
 

Khagesh

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@sgarg, my Finnish mentor told me that Ukraine crisis will not turn to WW3, so you can breath easily and do not worry.

Off course there will not be a WW-3. West merely wanted to divide and rule. As usual. West Ukrainians fell for that old trick and turned themselves into a slave. Happened earlier too.
 
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jouni

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More from Finnish deep throat

Going back to the topic, then the correct page properly so the paths are forgotten. If you are quieter, a little while ago the war was hot. January-February attack on a well-informed party informs the following. I can not reveal the source. If it is a problem, I can delete the message.


01/02/2015 Debaltseve. Tshetseenien battalion "Vostok" (MVD) will stricken. MVD's DzerzhinskyD tried to stop the fleeing troops.
DzerzhinskyD of the slain and wounded 2 1. Tshetseeneistä unknown.

01/02/2015 Debaltseve. 8.MekPr, 18.MekPr, 25.SpetsnazR and 232.KtPr motor march, the Ukrainians came to attack knocked over. Fallen by 61, 87 wounded and 12 missing, destroyed 11 cars and 7 cannons.

03/02/2015 Donetsk. 7016.TvälHTkk of being attacked. 5 dead, 12 wounded, six special repair equipment destroyed, blown up and the fuel storage area mined.

06.02.2015 Stakhanov, the Russian Emergency Ministry will kenttäkrematorio came under attack. 3 wounded and damaged kenttäkrematorio

12/02/2015 Debaltseve. 25.SpetsnazR and 136.MekPr formed by the battle group commander crashes during the day and the battle lost 183 fighters.

14/02/2015 Debaltseve. 217.MlR / 98.MlD and 27.MekPr the forces panic because of the strong indirect fire. MVD's DzerzhinskyD troops forcing the troops back.

Ilovaisk 02.14.2015. Ukrainian artillery and missile strike hit the ammunition storage. 268.KtPr and 95.VPr fallen by 12 and lost 82.

02/15/2015 Debaltseve:
- 6.PsPr fallen to 25, wounded 32, destroyed 15 cars.
-217.MlR / 98.MlD and 27.MekPr fallen 43, wounded 66, lost two.
- 19.MekPr fallen to 40, wounded 61, lost 11.

17/02/2015 Krasnodon. One soldier commits suicide, and the same goes with the wind two 1.Ohjusprikaatin artillery missile units.

02/20/2015 Novogrigorovka, Debaltseve. 20. MekPr motor march was interrupted lisäpanostettuun mine. 9 dead and 27 wounded

25.02.2015 Mariupol direction. 15.MekPr's fuel distribution site of a direct hit. 6 dead, 22 injured (six seriously). Three coaches will be destroyed.

03/02/2015 Maksimov, Mariupol direction. 15.MekPr troops pulled back during the operation. Commander tipping over chaos.

Alchevsk 08/03/2015 18 MekPr's troops ill 42 men, 9.3. 47 more and 10.3. another 23 more. All evakuioidaan hospitals.
Suspected poisoning.

27.03.2015 Mariupol Front camp area. 54.TiedKoulKesk and 45.MlR the boys came as a result of the dispute haahanlaskujoukkojen rotaatiosta.Riidan three dead. The camp area patrolling the MVD's DzerzhinskyD troops.

Donetsk arrived at 03.29. MVD's Rapid Response Unit SOBR, a clean sweep 30.3. Magadan Petrovskoyen village of Cossacks. Similar putsausoperaatioita have been at least 1.1., 10.1., 30.1., 28.2. and 6.3. Cossacks have been disarmed, sent to the front line or the castle or buried
 

sgarg

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@sgarg, my Finnish mentor told me that Ukraine crisis will not turn to WW3, so you can breath easily and do not worry.
Ukraine crisis ALONE will not turn to WW-3. WW-3 can happen ONLY after three major conflicts start. This has not happened yet.
 
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