Civil war in Ukraine

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Damian

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No sarcasm intended Damian and i'm really willing to learn :)

can you please tell us, make examples, articles and facts to teach/illustrate us Russian involvement in east Europe, not taking in consideration economic leverage that even if it is like blackmailing it is still legal (referring to Gas ultimatum).

Some examples in the case of my country is Brasil not extraditing Cesare Battisti (born 1954) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia a terrorist that has killed 4 persons, or the Aerolinee Itavia Flight 870 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia where Nato fighters downed a civil liner
You have Ukraine for example, annection of a territory that belongs to sovereign state, sending insurgents to a territory of sovereign state, example numero uno!

Georgia, South Ossetia and Abkhazia were belonging to Georgia, however Russians by supporting minorities there and provoking Georgians, get beautifull cassus belli to get there with troops, and de fact annect territories belonging to a sovereign state.

Moldova and Transnistria, where Russians openly support this mafia quasi state which territory belongs to Moldovia.

Also how they use gas prices to make political benefits from blackmiling their clients in a very simple way (you don't obey use, pay more!).

Simple as that.
 

pmaitra

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Kiev 'good guys' fire ballistic missiles into E. Ukraine – CNN

In the past two days Kiev's forces have launched several short-range ballistic missiles into areas in east Ukraine controlled by self-defense forces, CNN reports, citing US government sources.

The move "marks a major escalation" in the Ukrainian crisis, CNN said.

"Three US officials confirmed to me a short time ago that US intelligence over the last 48 hours has monitored the firing of several short-range ballistic missiles from territory controlled by Ukraine government forces into areas controlled by the pro-Russian separatists," Barbara Starr, CNN's Pentagon correspondent, said in a live report.
CNN Video:
CNN 2014 07 29 Ballistic missiles Ukraine - YouTube


@Akim, more "Russian propaganda" for you. Of course, there are all lies, since you live in Ukraine.
 
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pmaitra

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Do not expect the knuckleheads running EU realize that. It is a matter of time that there is an uprising that tosses out the current leadership that likes making loud noises, "sanctions," and a lot of grandstanding. The recent EU polls should have been a warning sign.

Europe is digging its own grave.
 

happy

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ORDER of the Commander-in-Chief of the Donetsk People's Republic Militia

July 27, 2014, in the City of Donetsk

With respect to the introduction of measures to be applied to the voluntarily surrendering servicemen of the Ukrainian Armed Forces.

Recently, we have been observing a sharp increase in the number of servicemen within the ranks of the Ukrainian Armed Forces unwilling to continue fighting a fratricidal war against their own people and refusing to obey the criminal orders of their command. Despite being subjected to various types of punishment by their commanders and to violent duress by the Nazis, all the way up to extrajudicial executions, such servicemen, nevertheless, do not surrender to the forces of the DPR Militia, fearful of being subjected to repressions by the latter. Guided by considerations of humanity in the name of stopping the bloodshed and saving the lives of Ukrainian servicemen, who were forcibly sent into the area of the fratricidal war, [scroll down]



I HEREBY ORDER:

All the commanders and the fighters of the forces of the DPR Militia not to open fire on groups or individual servicemen of the Ukrainian Armed Forces that have raised a white flag or signified their intention to surrender in another manner. After disarmament and inspection to ensure that they carry no weapons, such persons are to be permitted through the battle ranks of the Militia and concentrated in special collection points for further transportation to the deep rear under guard. Those persons are to be assigned the status of POW [Prisoners of War].

In accordance with the Geneva Conventions "Rules of Conducting Warfare", and the additional protocols thereto, such persons shall be provided with such nutrition and medical assistance as may be required. The use of executions, torture and humiliation in relation to them is prohibited. Any contravention of this part is considered to be a military offense and shall be punishable in accordance with the Laws of Wartime.

There shall be a formal accounting of all the above-noted persons and information regarding them shall be sent to the Staff of the DPR Militia for the determination of their future location in accordance with three schemes that are based on personal choice. Persons that voluntarily lay down arms and surrender to the forces of the DPR Militia and that have not committed grave crimes in the course of the hostilities on the territory of Novorossiya may choose:

1) to return to their families in Ukraine;
2) to join the ranks of the DPR Militia; and,
3)to be sent to the territory of Russia as a temporarily interned person (an option – as a refugee).

Minister of Defence
Commander of the Militia
Of the Donetsk People's Republic
Colonel I.I. Strelkov

Large Number of Ukraine Servicemen Unwilling to Fight, Refuse to Obey Orders of Kiev Regime | Global Research
 

happy

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The MH17 Crash: US Veteran Intelligence Officers Slam the Flimsy "Intelligence" Against Russia

Senior U.S. Intelligence Officers: Obama Should Release Ukraine Evidence

Preface: With the shoot-down of Malaysia Airlines Flight 17 over Ukraine turning a local civil war into a U.S. confrontation with Russia, former high-level U.S. intelligence veterans released a statement today urging President Obama to release what evidence he has about the tragedy and silence the exaggeration and rush to judgment. (The whole post is a must-read; but we at Washington's Blog have added bolding for emphasis.)

Signatory Bill Binney – the former senior technical director at the NSA, and a man who battled the Soviet Union for decades – tells Washington's Blog:

In my analytic efforts to predict intentions and capabilities down through the years, I always made sure that I had multi-factors verifying what I was asserting. So far, I don't see that discipline here in this administration or the IC [i.e. the United States intelligence community].

Posted with permission of Veteran Intelligence Professionals for Sanity.

MEMORANDUM FOR: The President

FROM: Veteran Intelligence Professionals for Sanity (VIPS)

SUBJECT: Intelligence on Shoot-Down of Malaysian Plane

Executive Summary

U.S.–Russian intensions are building in a precarious way over Ukraine, and we are far from certain that your advisers fully appreciate the danger of escalation. The New York Times and other media outlets are treating sensitive issues in dispute as flat-fact, taking their cue from U.S. government sources.

Twelve days after the shoot-down of Malaysian Airlines Flight 17, your administration still has issued no coordinated intelligence assessment summarizing what evidence exists to determine who was responsible – much less to convincingly support repeated claims that the plane was downed by a Russian-supplied missile in the hands of Ukrainian separatists.

Your administration has not provided any satellite imagery showing that the separatists had such weaponry, and there are several other "dogs that have not barked." Washington's credibility, and your own, will continue to erode, should you be unwilling – or unable – to present more tangible evidence behind administration claims. In what follows, we put this in the perspective of former intelligence professionals with a cumulative total of 260 years in various parts of U.S. intelligence:

We, the undersigned former intelligence officers want to share with you our concern about the evidence adduced so far to blame Russia for the July 17 downing of Malaysian Airlines Flight 17. We are retired from government service and none of us is on the payroll of CNN, Fox News, or any other outlet. We intend this memorandum to provide a fresh, different perspective.

As veteran intelligence analysts accustomed to waiting, except in emergency circumstances, for conclusive information before rushing to judgment, we believe that the charges against Russia should be rooted in solid, far more convincing evidence. And that goes in spades with respect to inflammatory incidents like the shoot-down of an airliner. We are also troubled by the amateurish manner in which fuzzy and flimsy evidence has been served up – some it via "social media."

As intelligence professionals we are embarrassed by the unprofessional use of partial intelligence information. As Americans, we find ourselves hoping that, if you indeed have more conclusive evidence, you will find a way to make it public without further delay. In charging Russia with being directly or indirectly responsible, Secretary of State John Kerry has been particularly definitive. Not so the evidence. His statements seem premature and bear earmarks of an attempt to "poison the jury pool."

Painting Russia Black

We see an eerie resemblance to an earlier exercise in U.S. "public diplomacy" from which valuable lessons can be learned by those more interested in the truth than in exploiting tragic incidents for propaganda advantage. We refer to the behavior of the Reagan administration in the immediate aftermath of the shoot-down of Korean Airlines Flight 007 over Siberia on August 30, 1983. We sketch out below a short summary of that tragic affair, since we suspect you have not been adequately briefed on it. The parallels will be obvious to you.

An advantage of our long tenure as intelligence officers is that we remember what we have witnessed first hand; seldom do we forget key events in which we played an analyst or other role. To put it another way, most of us "know exactly where we were" when a Soviet fighter aircraft shot down Korean Airlines passenger flight 007 over Siberia on August 30, 1983, over 30 years ago. At the time, we were intelligence officers on "active duty." You were 21; many of those around you today were still younger.

Thus, it seems possible that you may be learning how the KAL007 affair went down, so to speak, for the first time; that you may now become more aware of the serious implications for U.S.-Russian relations regarding how the downing of Flight 17 goes down; and that you will come to see merit in preventing ties with Moscow from falling into a state of complete disrepair. In our view, the strategic danger here dwarfs all other considerations.

Hours after the tragic shoot-down on Aug. 30, 1983, the Reagan administration used its very accomplished propaganda machine to twist the available intelligence on Soviet culpability for the killing of all 269 people aboard KAL007. The airliner was shot down after it strayed hundreds of miles off course and penetrated Russia's airspace over sensitive military facilities in Kamchatka and Sakhalin Island. The Soviet pilot tried to signal the plane to land, but the KAL pilots did not respond to the repeated warnings. Amid confusion about the plane's identity – a U.S. spy plane had been in the vicinity hours earlier – Soviet ground control ordered the pilot to fire.

The Soviets soon realized they had made a horrendous mistake. U.S. intelligence also knew from sensitive intercepts that the tragedy had resulted from a blunder, not from a willful act of murder (much as on July 3, 1988, the USS Vincennes shot down an Iranian civilian airliner over the Persian Gulf, killing 290 people, an act which President Ronald Reagan dismissively explained as an "understandable accident").

To make the very blackest case against Moscow for shooting down the KAL airliner, the Reagan administration suppressed exculpatory evidence from U.S. electronic intercepts. Washington's mantra became "Moscow's deliberate downing of a civilian passenger plane." Newsweek ran a cover emblazoned with the headline "Murder in the Sky." (Apparently, not much has changed; Time's cover this week features "Cold War II" and "Putin's dangerous game." The cover story by Simon Shuster, "In Russia, Crime Without Punishment," would merit an A-plus in William Randolph Hearst's course "Yellow Journalism 101.")

When KAL007 was shot down, Alvin A. Snyder, director of the U.S. Information Agency's television and film division, was enlisted in a concerted effort to "heap as much abuse on the Soviet Union as possible," as Snyder writes in his 1995 book, "Warriors of Disinformation."

He and his colleagues also earned an A-plus for bringing the "mainstream media" along. For example, ABC's Ted Koppel noted with patriotic pride, "This has been one of those occasions when there is very little difference between what is churned out by the U.S. government propaganda organs and by the commercial broadcasting networks."

"Fixing" the Intelligence Around the Policy

"The perception we wanted to convey was that the Soviet Union had cold-bloodedly carried out a barbaric act," wrote Snyder, adding that the Reagan administration went so far as to present a doctored transcript of the intercepts to the United Nations Security Council on September 6, 1983.

Only a decade later, when Snyder saw the complete transcripts — including the portions that the Reagan administration had hidden — would he fully realize how many of the central elements of the U.S. presentation were false.

The intercepts showed that the Soviet fighter pilot believed he was pursuing a U.S. spy aircraft and that he was having trouble in the dark identifying the plane. Per instructions from ground control, the pilot had circled the KAL airliner and tilted his wings to order the aircraft to land. The pilot said he fired warning shots, as well. This information "was not on the tape we were provided," Snyder wrote.

It became abundantly clear to Snyder that, in smearing the Soviets, the Reagan administration had presented false accusations to the United Nations, as well as to the people of the United States and the world. In his book, Snyder acknowledged his own role in the deception, but drew a cynical conclusion. He wrote, "The moral of the story is that all governments, including our own, lie when it suits their purposes. The key is to lie first."

The tortured attempts by your administration and stenographers in the media to blame Russia for the downing of Flight 17, together with John Kerry's unenviable record for credibility, lead us to the reluctant conclusion that the syndrome Snyder describes may also be at work in your own administration; that is, that an ethos of "getting your own lie out first" has replaced "ye shall know the truth." At a minimum, we believe Secretary Kerry displayed unseemly haste in his determination to be first out of the starting gate.

Both Sides Cannot Be Telling the Truth

We have always taken pride in not shooting from the hip, but rather in doing intelligence analysis that is evidence-based. The evidence released to date does not bear close scrutiny; it does not permit a judgment as to which side is lying about the shoot-down of Flight 17. Our entire professional experience would incline us to suspect the Russians – almost instinctively. Our more recent experience, particularly observing Secretary Kerry injudiciousness in latching onto one spurious report after another as "evidence," has gone a long way toward balancing our earlier predispositions.

It seems that whenever Kerry does cite supposed "evidence" that can be checked
– like the forged anti-Semitic fliers distributed in eastern Ukraine or the photos of alleged Russian special forces soldiers who allegedly slipped into Ukraine – the "proof" goes "poof" as Kerry once said in a different context. Still, these misrepresentations seem small peccadillos compared with bigger whoppers like the claim Kerry made on Aug. 30, 2013, no fewer than 35 times, that "we know" the government of Bashar al-Assad was responsible for the chemical incidents near Damascus nine days before.

On September 3, 2013 – following your decision to call off the attack on Syria in order to await Congressional authorization – Kerry was still pushing for an attack in testimony before a thoroughly sympathetic Senate Foreign Affairs Committee. On the following day Kerry drew highly unusual personal criticism from President Putin, who said: "He is lying, and he knows he is lying. It is sad."

Equally serious, during the first week of September 2013, as you and President Vladimir Putin were putting the final touches to the deal whereby Syrian chemical weapons would be given up for destruction, John Kerry said something that puzzles us to this day. On September 9, 2013, Kerry was in London, still promoting a U.S. attack on Syria for having crossed the "Red Line" you had set against Syria's using chemical weapons.

At a formal press conference, Kerry abruptly dismissed the possibility that Bashar al-Assad would ever give up his chemical weapons, saying, "He isn't about to do that; it can't be done." Just a few hours later, the Russians and Syrians announced Syria's agreement to do precisely what Kerry had ruled out as impossible. You sent him back to Geneva to sign the agreement, and it was formally concluded on September 14.

Regarding the Malaysia Airlines shoot-down of July 17, we believe Kerry has typically rushed to judgment and that his incredible record for credibility poses a huge disadvantage in the diplomatic and propaganda maneuvering vis-a-vis Russia. We suggest you call a halt to this misbegotten "public diplomacy" offensive. If, however, you decide to press on anyway, we suggest you try to find a less tarnished statesman or woman.

A Choice Between Two

If the intelligence on the shoot-down is as weak as it appears judging from the fuzzy scraps that have been released, we strongly suggest you call off the propaganda war and await the findings of those charged with investigating the shoot-down. If, on the other hand, your administration has more concrete, probative intelligence, we strongly suggest that you consider approving it for release, even if there may be some risk of damage to "sources and methods." Too often this consideration is used to prevent information from entering the public domain where, as in this case, it belongs.

There have been critical junctures in the past in which presidents have recognized the need to waive secrecy in order to show what one might call "a decent respect for the opinions of mankind" or even to justify military action.

As senior CIA veteran Milton Bearden has put it, there are occasions when more damage is done to U.S. national security by "protecting" sources and methods than by revealing them. For instance, Bearden noted that Ronald Reagan exposed a sensitive intelligence source in showing a skeptical world the reason for the U.S. attack on Libya in retaliation for the April 5, 1986 bombing at the La Belle Disco in West Berlin. That bombing killed two U.S. servicemen and a Turkish woman, and injured over 200 people, including 79 U.S. servicemen.

Intercepted messages between Tripoli and agents in Europe made it clear that Libya was behind the attack. Here's an excerpt: "At 1:30 in the morning one of the acts was carried out with success, without leaving a trace behind."

Ten days after the bombing the U.S. retaliated, sending over 60 Air Force fighters to strike the Libyan capital of Tripoli and the city of Benghazi. The operation was widely seen as an attempt to kill Colonel Muammar Gaddafi, who survived, but his adopted 15-month-old daughter was killed in the bombing, along with at least 15 other civilians.

Three decades ago, there was more shame attached to the killing of children. As world abhorrence grew after the U.S. bombing strikes, the Reagan administration produced the intercepted, decoded message sent by the Libyan Peoples Bureau in East Berlin acknowledging the "success" of the attack on the disco, and adding the ironically inaccurate boast "without leaving a trace behind."

The Reagan administration made the decision to give up a highly sensitive intelligence source, its ability to intercept and decipher Libyan communications. But once the rest of the world absorbed this evidence, international grumbling subsided and many considered the retaliation against Tripoli justified.

If You've Got the Goods"¦

If the U.S. has more convincing evidence than what has so far been adduced concerning responsibility for shooting down Flight 17, we believe it would be best to find a way to make that intelligence public – even at the risk of compromising "sources and methods." Moreover, we suggest you instruct your subordinates not to cheapen U.S. credibility by releasing key information via social media like Twitter and Facebook.

The reputation of the messenger for credibility is also key in this area of "public diplomacy." As is by now clear to you, in our view Secretary Kerry is more liability than asset in this regard. Similarly, with regard to Director of National Intelligence James Clapper, his March 12, 2013 Congressional testimony under oath to what he later admitted were "clearly erroneous" things regarding NSA collection should disqualify him. Clapper should be kept at far remove from the Flight 17 affair.

What is needed, if you've got the goods, is an Interagency Intelligence Assessment – the genre used in the past to lay out the intelligence. We are hearing indirectly from some of our former colleagues that what Secretary Kerry is peddling does not square with the real intelligence. Such was the case late last August, when Kerry created a unique vehicle he called a "Government (not Intelligence) Assessment" blaming, with no verifiable evidence, Bashar al-Assad for the chemical attacks near Damascus, as honest intelligence analysts refused to go along and, instead, held their noses.

We believe you need to seek out honest intelligence analysts now and hear them out. Then, you may be persuaded to take steps to curb the risk that relations with Russia might escalate from "Cold War II" into an armed confrontation. In all candor, we see little reason to believe that Secretary Kerry and your other advisers appreciate the enormity of that danger.

In our most recent (May 4) memorandum to you, Mr. President, we cautioned that if the U.S. wished "to stop a bloody civil war between east and west Ukraine and avert Russian military intervention in eastern Ukraine, you may be able to do so before the violence hurtles completely out of control." On July 17, you joined the top leaders of Germany, France, and Russia in calling for a ceasefire. Most informed observers believe you have it in your power to get Ukrainian leaders to agree. The longer Kiev continues its offensive against separatists in eastern Ukraine, the more such U.S. statements appear hypocritical.

We reiterate our recommendations of May 4, that you remove the seeds of this confrontation by publicly disavowing any wish to incorporate Ukraine into NATO and that you make it clear that you are prepared to meet personally with Russian President Putin without delay to discuss ways to defuse the crisis and recognize the legitimate interests of the various parties. The suggestion of an early summit got extraordinary resonance in controlled and independent Russian media. Not so in "mainstream" media in the U.S. Nor did we hear back from you.

The courtesy of a reply is requested.

Prepared by VIPS Steering Group

William Binney, former Technical Director, World Geopolitical & Military Analysis, NSA; co-founder, SIGINT Automation Research Center (ret.)

Larry Johnson, CIA & State Department (ret.)

Edward Loomis, NSA, Cryptologic Computer Scientist (ret.)

David MacMichael, National Intelligence Council (ret.)

Ray McGovern, former US Army infantry/intelligence officer & CIA analyst (ret.)

Elizabeth Murray, Deputy National Intelligence Officer for Middle East (ret.)

Coleen Rowley, Division Counsel & Special Agent, FBI (ret.)

Peter Van Buren, U.S. Department of State, Foreign Service Officer (ret)

Ann Wright, Col., US Army (ret); Foreign Service Officer (ret.)

The MH17 Crash: US Veteran Intelligence Officers Slam the Flimsy "Intelligence" Against Russia | Global Research
 

happy

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The UN is deliberately distorting facts in its latest report on the situation in Ukraine, justifying the violence conducted by the Ukrainian authorities, the Russian Foreign Ministry stated.

The Ministry thinks that "the efforts of the Office of UN High Commission for Human Rights and the UN monitoring mission should be channeled not to directly or indirectly justify the violence carried out by the Ukrainian authorities, but to help ensure the ceasefire and to begin the dialogue between Kiev and the eastern representatives to restore peace in the region."

Official representative of the Foreign Ministry Aleksandr Lukashevich said they has "carefully studied the latest, already the fourth, report published by the Office of UN High Commissioner for Human Rights, based on the information prepared by the UN monitoring mission."

"The main conclusion: the report is not objective and is even hypocritical. It will just suffice to mention the message about the Ukrainian government having the right to legitimately use force to restore law and order in the east of the country. Thus, the operation conducted by the Ukrainian 'punishers' is essentially justified," Lukashevich said.

Lukashevich said the Foreign Ministry carefully studied the report, which was based on the data prepared by the UN monitoring mission.

The Foreign Ministry said the report claims that Kiev began the campaign in response to the eastern militias' actions – when in reality, the local population started to fight to protect themselves from ultra-nationalists and neo-Nazi groups, including those on the ground. This was mentioned as an example of "distorting the facts."

The report didn't even mention that the Ukrainian army and the radicals from the National Guard used Grad missiles, leading to the deaths of 16 people and scores of civilians being wounded – information confirmed by Human Rights Watch.

Also, the cases of detention and beating of Russian journalists from the Zvezda and Life News TV channels were ignored in the report. The Russian Foreign Ministry believes that the statement that two Russian journalists of the All-Russian State TV and Radio Broadcasting Company could be killed by the Ukrainian army or by the militia is cynical.

However, Russia's Foreign Ministry said that the UN report does pay attention to a few important points in the conflict.

First, the report states that the disregard for legitimate demands for more autonomy and the use of the native Russian language in eastern Ukraine that lie at the heart of the conflict.

Second, the mounting number of victims is due to the random shelling of residential areas by the Ukrainian forces and the National Guard, according to the report.

The report also pays attention to the fact that there has been no progress in investigating the tragic events on Kiev's Maidan, in Odessa and in Mariupol. And it's hardly likely that any of these probes will be completed.

Finally, the report speaks about a "witch-hunt" carried out in Ukraine: the Kiev authorities are detaining anyone they suspect of supporting the eastern militia, are banning Russian TV channels, and deleting comments from social networks.

http://rt.com/news/176340-russia-report-un-ukraine/
 

Razor

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It's OT time.

Well, if you want to die and loose, you can try to fight with US. ;)

And BTW, it's obvious you don't have any idea about WWII history, at that time, USA did not know if they won on the pacific, and Japanese didn't even thinked to capitulate, you must remember that emperor was kept in dark with true informations by military command which was mostly made from fanatics wanting to fight to death (all that bushido BS).

USA considered conventional invasion, but calculations of casualties from both sides were... horrific, in the end nuclear bombs created less casualties than conventional invasion.



Holy shit, reading this makes me giggles, seriously people, you ate some serious propaganda like young pelicans. :pound:
That's a lie and a demonstration of the effect of American propaganda on nubile minds.

This is what Dwight David Eisenhower, a five-star general in the United States Army during World War II, Supreme Commander of the Allied Forces in Europe and later POTUS had to say:

Dwight David Eisenhower said:
... Secretary of War Stimson, visiting my headquarters in Germany, informed me that our government was preparing to drop an atomic bomb on Japan. I was one of those who felt that there were a number of cogent reasons to question the wisdom of such an act. ...the Secretary, upon giving me the news of the successful bomb test in New Mexico, and of the plan for using it, asked for my reaction, apparently expecting a vigorous assent.
During his recitation of the relevant facts, I had been conscious of a feeling of depression and so I voiced to him my grave misgivings, first on the basis of my belief that Japan was already defeated and that dropping the bomb was completely unnecessary, and secondly because I thought that our country should avoid shocking world opinion by the use of a weapon whose employment was, I thought, no longer mandatory as a measure to save American lives. It was my belief that Japan was, at that very moment, seeking some way to surrender with a minimum loss of 'face'. The Secretary was deeply perturbed by my attitude...
Also,

Dwight David Eisenhower on Newsweek 11/11/63 said:
...the Japanese were ready to surrender and it wasn't necessary to hit them with that awful thing.
And also, this is what Fleet Admiral William Daniel Leahy who served as the senior-most United States military officer on active duty during World War II.

Fleet Admiral William Daniel Leahy said:
...the Japanese were ready to surrender and it wasn't necessary to hit them with that awful thing.
It is my opinion that the use of this barbarous weapon at Hiroshima and Nagasaki was of no material assistance in our war against Japan. The Japanese were already defeated and ready to surrender because of the effective sea blockade and the successful bombing with conventional weapons.
The fact is the Japanese were ready to surrender; they had only one simple request: Inviolability of the Emperor of Japan. You see to the Japs, the person of the Emperor is equivalent to Jesus/Mohamed/{Add your God(s) here}.
The Emperor is the most crucial component of the Japanese culture. So removing the Emperor (forcibly from Japan or the mortal world) is equivalent to removing the very existence of Japan, because the Emperor is Japan and Japan is the Emperor.
But the Americans refused this. Stalin was ready to provide this, but Truman did not agree. He wanted to demonstrate something to Japan (/world).
The bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki was sending a message; not to the Japanese but to the Soviets. They were telling the Soviets: "Look, don;t fcuuk with us. We got a big dick."
But little did Truman know, Stalin already had spies who had given him info about the atom bomb and the Manhattan project.
 
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Razor

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Old poster from 1921

Reads: Donbass syerdse Rossiya (Donbass Heart of Russia, referring to the mining and industrial concentration in the region)
 

Akim

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Old poster from 1921

Reads: Donbass syerdse Rossiya (Donbass Heart of Russia, referring to the mining and industrial concentration in the region)
Of course. There were no Kuzbass. In Russia, it was only opened two natural gas fields. Now in Donbass, on the territory of the Russian Federation, there remained not one of mine. All closed down. Coal from Kuzbas is much cheaper.
 

Damian

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It's OT time.



That's a lie and a demonstration of the effect of American propaganda on nubile minds.

This is what Dwight David Eisenhower, a five-star general in the United States Army during World War II, Supreme Commander of the Allied Forces in Europe and later POTUS had to say:



Also,



And also, this is what Fleet Admiral William Daniel Leahy who served as the senior-most United States military officer on active duty during World War II.



The fact is the Japanese were ready to surrender; they had only one simple request: Inviolability of the Emperor of Japan. You see to the Japs, the person of the Emperor is equivalent to Jesus/Mohamed/{Add your God(s) here}.
The Emperor is the most crucial component of the Japanese culture. So removing the Emperor (forcibly from Japan or the mortal world) is equivalent to removing the very existence of Japan, because the Emperor is Japan and Japan is the Emperor.
But the Americans refused this. Stalin was ready to provide this, but Truman did not agree. He wanted to demonstrate something to Japan (/world).
The bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki was sending a message; not to the Japanese but to the Soviets. They were telling the Soviets: "Look, don;t fcuuk with us. We got a big dick."
But little did Truman know, Stalin already had spies who had given him info about the atom bomb and the Manhattan project.
Eisenhower had his view, I have my, don't even try to convience me. ;)
 

HMS Astute

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One wonders if that will be feasible with Russia being the neighbour, unlike the situation in Libya.

And anyway, wherever the NATO has intervened, they have left a mess, divided country and continuous strife and mayhem.

if that was the intention, then NATO has done a good job.
the intention of nato's intervention in libya was to stop the innocent civilians being killed by their own government. their dictator was not liked and is not missed by the people of libya. nato did a good job and was able to save a lot of lives.

 

Zebra

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the intention of nato's intervention in libya was to stop the innocent civilians being killed by their own government. their dictator was not liked and is not missed by the people of libya. nato did a good job and was able to save a lot of lives.

Any similar good job for this also.......or not...?

 
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