Civil war in Ukraine

[bhramos]

Up-armored Russian rebel MT-LB destroyed

 

[asianobserve]

If you are really serious about truth finding, atleast give it a try to get America share it's 'overwhelming evidences' to the public like the Russians did. If you can't do that, atleast have a look at what the russians shared. I don't have much hope for you anyways because your words and your actions are not matching. I can smell that kind of people from oceans far.

Whatever the Russians say in their defense must always always be weighed against reason, what is within reasonable probability, since you and I know Russia wants to wiggle out of this mess and pin the blame on its enemy Ukraine. So what is reasonable here?

I will begin by telling you what is outside of reason: it is outside of reason to claim that a state or military (Ukraine in this case) will shoot down a civilian airliner of a country it is not at war with that is full of passengers that are not citizens of its enemy just so that it can pin the blame against its enemy (Russia). In fact, if you tell me that Putin (however dillusional he is) has ordered the specific downing of MH17 then I will outrightly tell you that it is outside the realm of reason. It would be a different story if the reason is reprisal like Lockerbie bombing, then this is more likely. But what does Ukraine have against my country that it must shoot down one oft he planes of our national carrier? Nothing!

So what is reasonable then in this murderous tragedy? It is reasonable to believe based on the totality of the circumstances so far known about the Ukrainian conflict that MH17 was mistook for a Ukrainian military transport by the rebels or Russian operators manning a Buk SAM supplied by Russia to be used against Ukrainian targets. This is what I call murder by stupidity.

 

[bhramos]

New photos of losses of Ukrainian 79th airborne brigade in the southern cauldron

 

[bhramos]

 

[bhramos]

 

[Cadian]

That's a shame for the so called "independence fighters" since Khodarovsky is the only high ranking rebel leader that is actually from Eastern Ukraine. The top leaders are Russians already. So the more that the rebels will have a hard time recruiting Eastern Ukrainians for their "crusade" (whatever it is that Putin tells them to do).

Anyway, I can understand the feeling of betrayal on the side of Russia. Khodarovsky should not have told the truth to the media about the real role of the rebels and Russia in the downing of MH17. What a betrayal!

All right, you did not hear me.

 

[VDaminov]

"Alexander Khodakovsky, who leads the Vostok battalion..." - he does not lead Vostok battalion anymore, he was relieved of command by Igor Strelkov shortly after he came to Donetsk. Now there are only about 50 men at his disposal, that are loyal personally to him. Also, Vostok battalion was transformed into a brigade and is should now be called "Vostok brigade".

This is not correct information. The source of disinformation Malafeev media. Khodakovsky heads the "Vostok". "Vostok" defending the Donetsk and southern direction, including Saur-Magila.

MH17: Ukraine Separatist Commander 'Admits' Rebels had Buk Missile System

fake

http://www.vedomosti.ru/politics/news/29378651/hodakovskij-otricaet-chto-govoril-o-primenenii-buka
"I didn't say anything like "Reuters", and I have a recording of the conversation," reports paraphrase the words of Khodakovsky source of his entourage Russia Today, citing "RIA Novosti". "RIA Novosti" also quotes the refutation of Khodakovsky with reference to Russia Today. "We talked about the versions <...> but through all this red line, was one simple phrase that I did not have any information about the presence of militias such weapons," said the comments in an interview to Russia Today TV channel.

Khodakovskiy denied that the militia was Buk" in the city of Snow, next to which was hit Malaysian Boeing. In addition, he told RT that he has a video interview that he and his party can provide to prove that not told the Agency about the presence of ADMS the militia.

Bolotov and Ponomarev - citizens of Russia. This documentary brought.

Show the source.

 

[asianobserve]

I don't think that the detailed reporting of Reuters on the interview could have been fabricated, I mean the article contained plenty of lengthy statements like:

"I knew that a BUK came from Luhansk. At the time I was told that a BUK from Luhansk was coming under the flag of the LNR," he said, referring to the Luhansk People's Republic, the main rebel group operating in Luhansk, one of two rebel provinces along with Donetsk, the province where the crash took place.

"That BUK I know about. I heard about it. I think they sent it back. Because I found out about it at exactly the moment that I found out that this tragedy had taken place. They probably sent it back in order to remove proof of its presence," Khodakovsky told Reuters on Tuesday.

"The question is this: Ukraine received timely evidence that the volunteers have this technology, through the fault of Russia. It not only did nothing to protect security, but provoked the use of this type of weapon against a plane that was flying with peaceful civilians," he said.

"They knew that this BUK existed; that the BUK was heading for Snezhnoye," he said, referring to a village 10 km (six miles) west of the crash site. "They knew that it would be deployed there, and provoked the use of this BUK by starting an air strike on a target they didn't need, that their planes hadn't touched for a week."

"And that day, they were intensively flying, and exactly at the moment of the shooting, at the moment the civilian plane flew overhead, they launched air strikes. Even if there was a BUK, and even if the BUK was used, Ukraine did everything to ensure that a civilian aircraft was shot down."

It will be interesting how Reuters will survive as a source of news (that other media company buys from) if ever their handling of this interview is bungled by faulty or deliberate slanting of translation. I'm sure AP and Agence France Presse even non-Western media like Al Jazeera are just waiting to pounce on their rival's mistake.

But if you tell me that the denials is coming from Russian media, then forget it.

 

[asianobserve]

How about the motive of Khodakovsky in revealing this potentially explosive info? Maybe he has deep seated conflict with Russian rebel leaders that he is trying to discredit them or maybe this is a rare burst of conscience from him after seeing the carnage from MH17, he revealed this in the alleged Reuters interview.

 

[aerokan]

Whatever the Russians say in their defense must always always be weighed against reason, what is within reasonable probability, since you and I know Russia wants to wiggle out of this mess and pin the blame on its enemy Ukraine. So what is reasonable here?

I will begin by telling you what is outside of reason: it is outside of reason to claim that a state or military (Ukraine in this case) will shoot down a civilian airliner of a country it is not at war with that is full of passengers that are not citizens of its enemy just so that it can pin the blame against its enemy (Russia). In fact, if you tell me that Putin (however dillusional he is) has ordered the specific downing of MH17 then I will outrightly tell you that it is outside the realm of reason. It would be a different story if the reason is reprisal like Lockerbie bombing, then this is more likely. But what does Ukraine have against my country that it must shoot down one oft he planes of our national carrier? Nothing!

So what is reasonable then in this murderous tragedy? It is reasonable to believe based on the totality of the circumstances so far known about the Ukrainian conflict that MH17 was mistook for a Ukrainian military transport by the rebels or Russian operators manning a Buk SAM supplied by Russia to be used against Ukrainian targets. This is what I call murder by stupidity.

If you already know that the rebels might have mistakenly shot the plane, then why do you keep blabbering from the start that Putin must be hanged for this?. Just like US supports the murderous regime with contractors from Blackwater and strategists from CIA, Russia supports the rebels which has the majority Russian speaking population.

Call it a conspiracy theory, but here is my moderate theory (since I don't have all the data.. call the americans, will ya? ). US/Ukraine has solid evidence of Russian Buk missiles being transported and rebels possessing it (US ofcourse has the data from the dedicated satellite which monitors the SAM launches in the region. Now they observed a pattern of flights getting downed. Now they drew up a plan to pin the blame on Russia and the rebels and turn the losing game swiftly into a position of advantage to Ukraine. How do they turn the international opinion against Rebels without dirtying their hands? Now the strategists pulled out how the air traffic is passing every day and got a master plan.

First they deployed all the Buk SAM's at multiple points near the rebel region and make sure they monitored it from the radars. That's why there was an increasing concentration of Ukrainian Buk's which are active even though there is no rebel airforce to counter. They calculated all the possible paths and the reaction time once the Buk's get fired. They sent a AN-26 transport and the rebels shot it down. And now the rebels are boasting about it in twitter. The real mission started immediately after the AN-26 was shot down. The first possible victim was identified (target MH-17 flying towards the rebel airspace). They made sure that there are atleast a couple of civilian aircrafts passing near behind MH-17 just in case. Now they were tracking the flight and the Su-25's were timed to be there by the MH-17 at the same time when MH-17 will be in the range of Buk's. They sent 2 Su-25's just to make sure they grab the attention of rebels. They were nearby MH-17 and the moment they detected a launch towards them, they crossed off MH-17 to the other side and that's why you see MH-17 veering of the path. The Buk hit your plane. Since higher ups in Ukraine knew about this, the military is there ready at the Kiev ATC just in case. The moment the Spanish ATC guy in Kiev put it on twitter that Su-25's are there escorting Su-25, they were evacuated within minutes and the twitter account deleted. Objective achieved. Now Russia can't accept that their Buk's were there with the rebels (the article related to Reuters that you are blabbering about). US immediately proclaimed the proofs were there and Russia is guilty of it. Ukraine got justification to massacre the civilians in the rebel areas. Now since the world is so much prejudiced against any information from Russia (count yourself and Akim and few others here), it is very easy to manipulate the media which is already in western control. Russia can't prove anything without putting itself in the mix. A catch 22 there.

That's a brief of it. All the required details to support this theory are there in this thread. I just connected the dots. Whether it's true or not, that's something i can't tell. But certainly i can tell that the motive is good enough for Ukraine to plot a mudsling operation like this. Rebels and MH17 possible victims. And all of this is prequel to the coming war which in no uncertain terms is going to happen and the change in the world's power equations.

 

[asianobserve]

If you already know that the rebels might have mistakenly shot the plane, then why do you keep blabbering from the start that Putin must be hanged for this?.

Have you been reading my posts? Because Putin provided the Buk used to shoot down MH17. He may not have ordered the rebels the shoot down commercial planes but they nevertheless did it by their idiocy.

The rest of your post is a repetition of the main conspiracy theory being peddled by Kremlin. As I said earlier, it is simply beyond reason to believe that Ukraine or even Putin will order the shooting down of a commercial airliner full of innocent civilians just for "stunt."

 

[VDaminov]

Alexander Khodakovsky denies the information spread by Reuters
(russian language)
Александр Ходаковский опровергает информацию, распространённую агентством «Рейтер». ТВ «СВ - ДНР», Выпуск 44 | Суть времени

 

[bhramos]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HEfjqnlPuL4&feature=youtu.be
Kiev does not really care about its own army - no electricity, no water, no food... Soldiers catch and cook snakes

 

[jackprince]

Oh, I do care who shot down MH17. We need justice here or else we will have no closure.

Do you really?

Then why don't you take a step back and scrutinise all the 'evidence' and then come to a conclusion? Why are you jumping up and down regurgitating the spiel the US have been spouting? How patriotic are you for following blindly your (and I hope not your country) master - the USA, when hundreds of your fellow nationals have died?

Have the USA provided Malaysia with the so called evidence that they are claiming to have been gathered by CIA and NSA? If not, why not? Why the delay? Why cannot those evidences cannot be presented before the world? Or UN?

Why are you so in blind love with USA?

 

[bhramos]

Rebel checkpoint in Kirovsk destroyed

 

[bhramos]

Ukrainian artillery position

 

[asianobserve]

Do you really?

Then why don't you take a step back and scrutinise all the 'evidence' and then come to a conclusion? Why are you jumping up and down regurgitating the spiel the US have been spouting? How patriotic are you for following blindly your (and I hope not your country) master - the USA, when hundreds of your fellow nationals have died?

Why am I supposed to wait for years to point a finger at anyone? I do have a mind to make a decision on what version to believe at? Obviously you believe the version of Russia that it was the Ukrainian government that shoot down MH17 for a media stunt to put blame on Russia.

Why are you so in blind love with USA?

Don't demean the memories of my dead countrymen in MH17 by trivializing their deaths with knee jerk association with America. The murder of MH17 is not about America.

 

[bhramos]

REUTERS BUSTED! INTERVIEW ABOUT BUK PROVEN WRONG.

July 23 Reuters published an interview with Ukraine rebel commander Khodakovsky where he acknowledges rebels having BUK missiles. Or does he?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Co18qpulP94

 

[asianobserve]

That's interesting. We'll wait for the explanation of Reuters.

 

[bhramos]

ukraine female gun-layer who killed 2 journalist speaking first time after she was arrested )

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vEO8QmveauQ