Chinese Regional Jets & Airliners

[rockdog]

The truth that China is hiding from its citizens

View attachment 208338

Guess who made this kind of diagram?

 

[MiG-29SMT]

The truth that China is hiding from its citizens

View attachment 208338

To be fair what comac does so does Embraer, most subsystems are foreign, but C919 is already in big disadvantage to A-220, and A-321XLR in terms of ticket price

 

[Jimih]

To be fair what comac does so does Embraer, most subsystems are foreign, but C919 is already in big disadvantage to A-220, and A-321XLR in terms of ticket price

The C919 is a massive failure for Comac China and the program has only continued due to the necessity of public image. The original design goals were not met.

C919 is already outdated and too heavy.

 

[rockdog]

To be fair what comac does so does Embraer, most subsystems are foreign, but C919 is already in big disadvantage to A-220, and A-321XLR in terms of ticket price

I think XLR is not in the market yet. But 321Neo vs C919 for Shanghai to Chengdu, the pricing are the same, there is some extra $20 discount for 919, so the actual price is lower than 321neo.

and they shared some subsystems, like they used the same seats from a Chinese vendor.

 

[MiG-29SMT]

I think XLR is not in the market yet. But 321Neo vs C919 for Shanghai to Chengdu, the pricing are the same, there is some extra $20 discount for 919, so the actual price is lower than 321neo.

View attachment 208342

and they shared some subsystems, like they used the same seats from a Chinese vendor.

View attachment 208343

Range	7400 km
Mmo	M0.82

The A321neo is the longest-fuselage member of Airbus’ best-selling, single-aisle A320 Family, comfortably seating 180 to 220 passengers in a typical two-class interior layout, and as many as 244 in a higher-density arrangement.

A321neo

The A321 is the longest-fuselage member of Airbus’ best-selling, single-aisle A320 Family, comfortably seating 170 to 200 passengers in a typical two-class interior layout, and as many as 220 in a higher-density arrangement.

aircraft.airbus.com

The neo is cheaper has longer range and more passengers, At this moment not Embraer or Boeing can compete with Airbus much less comac and the discount you mention is losing money

 

[SexyChineseLady]

The truth that China is hiding from its citizens

View attachment 208338

Why do you Indians make these things up? China has always said they are using foreign subsystems like every other airliner in the world:

And they've highly publicized the CJ1000A engine that they are working on as an alternative to the LEAP C so the goal of replacing some of the foreign parts is very well understood.

Also, the foreign components on the C919 are very well known to the Chinese public because the AirBus assembly line in Tianjin is very well known!

So Chinese people understand how airliners are built far more than people who never built an airliner and who, to be frank, sound very jealous of Chinese people and the C919

 

[Azaad]

Why do you Indians make these things up? China has always said they are using foreign subsystems like every other airliner in the world:
View attachment 208378

And they've highly publicized the CJ1000A engine that they are working on as an alternative to the LEAP C so replacing some of the foreigns is very well understood.

Also, the foreign components on the C919 are very well known to the Chinese public because the AirBus assembly line in Tianjin is very well known!

So Chinese people understand how airliners are built far more than people who never built an airliner and, to be frank, sound very jealous
View attachment 208379

Merely pointing out that the Chinese airliner has a plethora of foreign owned sub systems just as Chinese members across forums & years have been pointing out the Tejas had plenty of foreign sub systems in it too , the most vital difference being China's in a state of cold war with all those nations supplying such sub systems whereas India isn't.

While China's achievement in this field is commendable the true test lies in China indigenizing those sub systems at the earliest. Which means the more such aircrafts China turns out with such sub systems the more it digs a hole for itself. You don't want to get into the kind of situation Russia's in now , do you ?

 

[SexyChineseLady]

The jealous people would turn even greener with envy when the CJ1000A comes online with CJ2000 for the C929 coming soon after that

People of a country who never built an airliner, who never dared to attempt it in a project, should really think before saying anything about the C919 to a country and people who is already mass producing the ARJ-21 and who have engine programs in place. It sounds like so much sour grapes

 

[rockdog]

Range	7400 km
Mmo	M0.82

The A321neo is the longest-fuselage member of Airbus’ best-selling, single-aisle A320 Family, comfortably seating 180 to 220 passengers in a typical two-class interior layout, and as many as 244 in a higher-density arrangement.

A321neo

The A321 is the longest-fuselage member of Airbus’ best-selling, single-aisle A320 Family, comfortably seating 170 to 200 passengers in a typical two-class interior layout, and as many as 220 in a higher-density arrangement.

aircraft.airbus.com

The neo is cheaper has longer range and more passengers, At this moment not Embraer or Boeing can compete with Airbus much less comac and the discount you mention is losing money

Ur logic is funny, you raised the topic about price, i show you who had lower price. Then you said low price means discount and loss money.

If you already had conclusion, why u came to thread?

 

[SexyChineseLady]

Merely pointing out that the Chinese airliner has a plethora of foreign owned sub systems just as Chinese members across forums & years have been pointing out the Tejas had plenty of foreign sub systems in it too , the most vital difference being China's in a state of cold war with all those nations supplying such sub systems whereas India isn't.

While China's achievement in this field is commendable the true test lies in China indigenizing those sub systems at the earliest. Which means the more such aircrafts China turns out with such sub systems the more it digs a hole for itself. You don't want to get into the kind of situation Russia's in now , do you ?

You know very well, his main point was that China is "hiding" the foreign components to its people. That sounds like so much sour grapes to us Chinese

The whole CJ1000/2000/500 programs are highly publicized to the Chinese people and are pursued because of the very vulnerability you talked about.

This is also the reason why China helped to create massive eco-systems for Airbus and Safran (do you know that Chinese components are made at Safran factories in China and shipped to Europe to assembled the Leap-C and then re-shipped back to China and installed on the C919 in Shanghai?)

China did the same for Apple and Tesla. Ripping out that supply chain is not easy nor losing that capacity in China -- Tianjin will have two assembly lines just like France

 

[Azaad]

You know very well, his main point was that China is "hiding" the foreign components to its people. That sounds like so much sour grapes to us Chinese

The whole CJ1000/2000/500 programs are highly publicized to the Chinese people and are pursued because of the very vulnerability you talked about.

This is also the reason why China helped to create massive eco-systems for Airbus and Safran (do you know that Chinese components are made at Safran factories in China and shipped to Europe to assembled the Leap-C and then re-shipped back to China and installed on the C919 in Shanghai?)

China did the same for Apple and Tesla. Ripping out that supply chain is not easy nor losing that capacity in China -- Tianjin will have two assembly lines just like France

Highly publicized - yes , yet how many articles in Mandarin have gotten into granular details of it's sub systems & components ? The devil lies in the details . CCP is busy spreading the propoganda that this is a totally indigenous effort . It's called being economical with the truth.

Those Airbus lines in Tianjin are assembly lines with certain offsets to comply with CCP requirements . Pls don't delude yourself into thinking these Chinese supply chains don't have redundancy.

 

[Azaad]

The jealous people would turn even greener with envy when the CJ1000A comes online with CJ2000 for the C929 coming soon after that

View attachment 208380

People of a country who never built an airliner, who never dared to attempt it in a project, should really think before saying anything about the C919 to a country and people who is already mass producing the ARJ-21 and who have engine programs in place. It sounds like so much sour grapes

Which is why we want the Chinese to build as many of the C 919 & ARJ-21 as they can using western sub systems. You can add thousands of kms of MAGLEV / Hyperloop to it too. If only to prove to all those nations that not only can China develop & build all these but they can scale it up tremendously.

 

[Azaad]

Ur logic is funny, you raised the topic about price, i show you who had lower price. Then you said low price means discount and loss money.

If you already had conclusion, why u came to thread?

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...fly-the-world-riding-on-1-3-billion-subsidies

An old article but should be a good pointer to what we can expect with these new civilian airliners coming out of China. Hope you understand what the implications are . You've another looming trade war in the airlines sector between China & the west .

 

[SexyChineseLady]

Highly publicized - yes , yet how many articles in Mandarin have gotten into granular details of it's sub systems & components ? The devil lies in the details . CCP is busy spreading the propoganda that this is a totally indigenous effort . It's called being economical with the truth.

Those Airbus lines in Tianjin are assembly lines with certain offsets to comply with CCP requirements . Pls don't delude yourself into thinking these Chinese supply chains don't have redundancy.

Again, you Indians are making things up.
China has always let its people know that C919 has foreign subsystems like every other airliner in the world and that for China is a vulnerability!

One picture is worth a thousand words and for Chinese this is one of the most famous and most cited aviation photos ever:

Why? Because the Chinese people know:

1) the Y-20 is a massive aircraft, largest military transport still being built anywhere; we know you cannot just buy them off market; that is why China has this project,

2) this particular Y-20 is a flying testbed; there are very, very few in the world and is critical to developing new engines; this is why China built this plane and building more,

3) it is testing a domestic turbofan for the C919 called the CJ1000A; the most critical foreign component to an airliner and the most vulnerable to embargo; that is why China needs this engine program along other classes of engines.

This vulnerability is a constant drumbeat in China. Everyone know that they are vulnerable and that they need a "all of society" approach to solving them.

So it is very stupid for people to say that China "hides" the foreign components, the CPC explicitly advertize those vulnerabilities to push the entire Chinese society into building domestic solutions.

I think people who do not have a large plane program, do not have a flying testbed and are waiting for some foreign company to just give them an engine have no idea how Chinese people know and are working to solve foreign dependencies

 

[Jimih]

So Chinese people understand how airliners are built far more than people who never built an airliner and who, to be frank, sound very jealous of Chinese people and the C919

Nobody is "jealous" of your Stolen technology.

Chinese are stealing aviation tech from United States for the past 2 decades.

After stealing trade secrets from US and Europe, Chinese companies unapologetically tagged its products as indigenous tech.

 

[SexyChineseLady]

Nobody is jealous of your Stolen technology.

Chinese are stealing aviation tech from United States for the past 2 decades.

After stealing trade secrets from US and Europe, Chinese tagged them as indigenous tech.


View attachment 208388

It is pretty obvious that you people are very jealous

If it is just stolen technology then why all the foreign firms willing to work with COMAC on the C919?

 

[Azaad]

Again, you Indians are making things up.
China has always let its people know that C919 has foreign subsystems like every other airliner in the world and that for China is a vulnerability!

One picture is worth a thousand words and for Chinese this is one of the most famous and most cited aviation photos ever:
View attachment 208384

Why? Because the Chinese people know:

1) the Y-20 is a massive aircraft, largest military transport still being built anywhere; we know you cannot just buy them off market; that is why China has this project,

2) this particular Y-20 is a flying testbed; there are very, very few in the world and is critical to developing new engines; this is why China built this plane and building more,

3) it is testing a domestic turbofan for the C919 called the CJ1000A; the most critical foreign component to an airliner and the most vulnerable to embargo; that is why China needs this engine program along other classes of engines.

This vulnerability is a constant drumbeat in China. Everyone know that they are vulnerable and that they need a "all of society" approach to solving them.

So it is very stupid for people to say that China "hides" the foreign components, the CPC explicitly advertize those vulnerabilities to push the entire Chinese society into building domestic solutions.

I think people who do not have a large plane program, do not have a flying testbed and are waiting for some foreign company to just give them an engine have no idea how Chinese people know and are working to solve foreign dependencies

Pls post articles in Mandarin with translation which explicitly says that all these indigenously developed airlines are made with foreign sub components. And I don't mean articles dedicated to civilian aircrafts or even aircrafts or articles published in scientific journals for their viewership would be limited for obvious reasons but articles appearing in mainstream Chinese media .

Y-20 was initially powered by Russian TFs. The replacements with Chinese equivalents are just about beginning . Besides we've no clue as to the actual level of indigenization achieved . In all probability these aircraft still have a lot of Russian sub components given the west's ban on your military endeavours & I'm sure you wouldn't want to source it from the west too. Steal technology yes , source technologies from the west , no no . However all said & done it's a commendable achievement .

Yet let me point out , it's the outcome of a 16 trillion USD GDP. You took those decisions to build these back in 2006-7 when you were a between 4-5 trillion USD GDP.

I don't wish to bring up India here but since you're quite obviously hinting at India , we've not even crossed 4 trillion USD in terms of our nominal GDP as of now . Whereas countries with a much lesser GDP than you like France has already built up a complete aerospace ecosystem long ago.UK too before it let the US MIC hollow it out .

Whether it's a drumbeat or not in Chinese society is something you know better. What the OPEN & FREE SOCIETY in the rest of the world do is take CCP propoganda with a bucket full of salt .

What we also lack is an organisation on the scale of the MSS to indulge in industrial espionage & stealing technology on the scale that you can . That I believe is one of your biggest achievements.

At least hope you honour this gentleman -

Yanjun Xu

Jury convicts Chinese official of espionage crimes, attempting to steal trade secrets from Cincinnati company

CINCINNATI – The first Chinese intelligence agent ever to be extradited to the United States to stand trial was convicted today by a federal jury in Cincinnati.

www.justice.gov

Hope the CCP honors his sacrifice & doesn't brush it under the carpet or suppress information like you did with those PLA soldiers KIA in Galwan with reports surfacing months later of any fatality here & there. I also hope that chapters are written in Chinese text books for children schooling them in the virtues of patriotism to the CCP as well as instilling in them the spirit of self sacrifice towards the CCP.

I earnestly hope you , the CCP & the Chinese nation don't forget the contribution anonymous people like Xu & the MSS made in this regard.

 

[SexyChineseLady]

Well known and well understood by Chinese but not by people jealous of the C919

This is why Tesla openec up a giga factory in China during a trade war. Why Apple builds the vast majority of its Iphones in China.


And why China has the only Airbus assembly outside the west

We know all about foreign parts and needing to learn from them

 

[Azaad]

It is pretty obvious that you people are very jealous

If it is just stolen technology then why all the foreign firms willing to work with COMAC on the C919?

Remember that Thomas Jefferson quotation & the lengthy explanation I had to provide you .

 

[Azaad]

Well known and well understood by Chinese but not by people jealous of the C919
View attachment 208391

Sure. Post tweets from Twitter an SM banned in China. How many Chinese actually do have access to VPN & thus Twitter ?

Lady , this propoganda you're indulging in would win you admirers in the Arab world & Paxtan - two places where in breeding thrives. Perhaps even SE Asia would be in thrall of your "achievements." Africa has different priorities & Latin America has their own in the Brazilian EMBRAER .


Out here you'd probably get one or 2 Forever 19 brand ambassadors like @jai jaganath who'd go out of their way to prove they were dropped on their heads at birth.