Chinese Regional Jets & Airliners

[rockdog]

To be fair, the Chinese have consistently been designing and building things at a much faster rate than all the pundits and experts estimate. They don't understand China so they get almost everything wrong.

Silly people never bothered to compare colors of the China CCP flag with DC's Flash costume. Also never bothered to eat dim sum.
If they had bothered they would realize Chinese are faster than anyone would believe and so crazy about working they are willing to make all sorts of strange and wonderful stuffed dumplings for, what appears to me, no other reason than variety and making more work.

Japanese, also industrious workers, do similar things with sushi.

Just considering from the pure economic side, the current China GDP might be equal to US + EU in 2008. But remember that during 1970s the USA along hold two aviation companies Boing and MD mianly for domestic market plus some international demands.

It's the very resasonalble the current China to have one plane mainly for internal demand as C919 and meanwhile developing C929 in coming decades. if the main components are localized, the money will be circulated inside China, it's still benefit for local economy.

 

[MiG-29SMT]

Just considering from the pure economic side, the current China GDP might be equal to US + EU in 2008. But remember that during 1970s the USA along hold two aviation companies Boing and MD mianly for domestic market plus some international demands.

It's the very resasonalble the current China to have one plane mainly for internal demand as C919 and meanwhile developing C929 in coming decades. if the main components are localized, the money will be circulated inside China, it's still benefit for local economy.

Your assesment still is basesd in nationalism, not practicality.

Aviation only can survive if money is made.

C919 to survive has very high subsides from the Chinese government contrary to Embraer, COMAC pumps money from the government disguised as airliners, since the airliners are own by the government equals I make hot cakes to sell but I eat them,

Airbus already is assembling A-321XRL in China to keep the line China needs chinese customers, so basically COMAC has the competitor at home

Tianjin, 24 March 2023 – Airbus has delivered the first A321neo aircraft assembled at its Final Assembly Line Asia (FAL Tianjin) to China’s Juneyao Air in Tianjin, China. The aircraft is powered by Pratt & Whitney GTF engines and features 207 comfortable seats, 8 in Business and 199 in Economy class. Its delivery flight is to use a ten percent Sustainable Aviation Fuel blend in support of the green aviation strategy in China.

Airbus Final Assembly Line in China delivers its first A321neo

Airbus has delivered the first A321neo aircraft assembled at its Final Assembly Line Asia (FAL Tianjin) to China’s Juneyao Air in Tianjin, China. The aircraft is powered by Pratt & Whitney GTF engines and features 207 comfortable seats, 8 in Business and 199 in Economy class. Its delivery flight...

www.airbus.com

in few words the C919 can not compete with it.

A220 is not made in China but airliners are buying it, C919 has already costumers like Korean airlines that prefers it over C919

https://www.airbus.com/sites/g/files/jlcbta136/files/2022-06/Airbus-A220-Customer-List-June-2022_0.pdf

 

[MiG-29SMT]

Airbus does not envision a near-term certification of its A220 in China, but nevertheless expects eventual approval for the twinjet from Chinese regulators.

The airframer recently obtained agreements from four Chinese carriers covering close to 300 single-aisle jets – all from the A320neo-family range.

These included 100 for China Eastern Airlines and 96 for China Southern Airlines, plus a total of 96 for Air China and Shenzhen Airlines, with the larger carrier taking two-thirds of them.



Speaking on 20 July, Airbus chief commercial officer Christian Scherer said there was interest in the A220 from carriers “here and there” in China.

But he also stresses the “massive deal” with the major Chinese carriers, and hints at “possibly more to come”, and says the presence of the A220 in China is “not an urgent question”.

“Is there interest for this kind of aircraft in China? The answer is yes,” he says. “Are we about to certify the aircraft in China? No – but do we expect it to come over time? Sure.”

Source: Airbus
Chinese suppliers manufacture key sections of the A220
Several Chinese suppliers contribute to producing the A220, including manufacture of fuselage sections. The A220 would slot between the domestically-build Comac ARJ21 and C919, but Chinese operators have yet to commit.



Half of all the 762 firm A220 orders have been received from US customers, with France, Latvia, Australia and Canada accounting for another quarter, with only Korea and Vanuatu prominent in other Asia-Pacific countries.

Scherer says the market penetration of the A220 is “improving”, adding: “We’re placing the airplane everywhere, in all walks of life, all continents.

“Once we have a solid established customer base for the airplane, we’ll most likely stretch the airplane.”

But he emphasises that a potential stretch, while “extremely likely”, is not an immediate objective.


“We’re not near it,” he says. “We’re quite happy with the sales performance of the A220 now.

He says the A220 situation in terms of sales, production, and availability is “almost ideal” from a manufacturing perspective.

“So the programme’s doing very well,” he says. “We don’t want to be ‘too right, too early’. It would be wrong to be right too early with stretching this aircraft.”

Airbus exercising patience over Chinese certification for A220

Airbus does not envision a near-term certification of its A220 in China, but nevertheless expects eventual approval for the twinjet from Chinese regulators. The airframer recently obtained agreements from four Chinese carriers covering close to 300 single-aisle jets - all from the A320neo-family...

www.flightglobal.com

 

[SexyChineseLady]

Just considering from the pure economic side, the current China GDP might be equal to US + EU in 2008. But remember that during 1970s the USA along hold two aviation companies Boing and MD mianly for domestic market plus some international demands.

It's the very resasonalble the current China to have one plane mainly for internal demand as C919 and meanwhile developing C929 in coming decades. if the main components are localized, the money will be circulated inside China, it's still benefit for local economy.

Airbus was built on European subsidies. It was not economically feasible in its early stage and had been a center of US-European trade disputes.

It was a strategic decision on the part of the EU. It is same for China and Comac. After seeing what happened to Russia with the embargo on Airbus and Boeing support, no major would ever want to be held hostage like this again.

That said, Airbus has a privileged position in China because of its assembly lines at Tianjin and the research and development centers established by Safran across China. Chinese companies not only supply parts to Airbus but alloys to Safran too!!!

China's HSR had also reduced dependence on the duopoly (and Embraer) for short haul. This increased perssure on the duopoly to use Chinese suppliers to keep flight as option for the Chinese market. They use COMAC as a partner because they are competing against China train industry.

Boeing is the one being left out because of strategic reasons. The ARJ-21, C919 and C929 will eventually replace Boeing.

Airbus with its lines in China supplied by the Chinese eco-system will be a favored vendor as COMAC builds up. Just like Tesla with its lines in Shanghai is a favored vendor to help drive China's EV industry.

Airbus was not as efficient as Boeing in the beginning. It just takes time for experience to take hold. The same thing will happen with COMAC. If you always use foreign aircraft only, you will never be in the industry. China want to be in the industry and it is strategic. Having more efficient Boeings is meaningless if they embargo you like Russia. Only a naive or retarded person would think only profit is important after seeing what happened to Russia.

 

[MiG-29SMT]

Airbus was built on European subsidies. It was not economically feasible in its early stage and had been a center of US-European trade disputes.

It was a strategic decision on the part of the EU. It is same for China and Comac. After seeing what happened to Russia with the embargo on Airbus and Boeing support, no major would ever want to be held hostage like this again.

That said, Airbus has a privileged position in China because of its assembly lines at Tianjin and the research and development centers established by Safran across China. Chinese companies not only supply parts to Airbus but alloys to Safran too!!!

China's HSR had also reduced dependence on the duopoly (and Embraer) for short haul. This increased perssure on the duopoly to use Chinese suppliers to keep flight as option for the Chinese market. They use COMAC as a partner because they are competing against China train industry.

Boeing is the one being left out because of strategic reasons. The ARJ-21, C919 and C929 will eventually replace Boeing.

Airbus with its lines in China supplied by the Chinese eco-system will be a favored vendor as COMAC builds up. Just like Tesla with its lines in Shanghai is a favored vendor to help drive China's EV industry.

Airbus was not as efficient as Boeing in the beginning. It just takes time for experience to take hold. The same thing will happen with COMAC. If you always use foreign aircraft only, you will never be in the industry. China want to be in the industry and it is strategic. Having more efficient Boeings is meaningless if they embargo you like Russia. Only a naive or retarded person would think only profit is important after seeing what happened to Russia.

A lot of Fantasies from the expert in propaganda.


Aircraft make money or simply they lose money or get bankrupt



Money down the drain?
In total, the A380 program cost an estimated €30 billion ($33.9 billion) — and most of that money came from European taxpayers. But why was it a flop, at least in economic terms?

Industry experts and Airbus remain sure of one thing: Despite it being an economic failure, the effort to build the A380 wasn't entirely in vain. Most importantly, Airbus had been forced to act as a corporate entity for the first time, and the learning effect was paramount.

Airbus A380: End of a multibillion-dollar dream – DW – 12/16/2021

The last Airbus A380 has been delivered, bringing the program to an end. Once seen as the future of travel, the world's biggest aircraft turned into a flop. But for the plane-maker, it was still worth the effort.

www.dw.com

A key factor in the MD-11's comparatively low production output, and a production cycle that lasted just 12 years, was its inability to meet targets for given metrics. The most crucial of these were range and fuel burn, where it was soon found to be underperforming.

This prompted American Airlines to express its dissatisfaction with the 19 trijets that it had received. The Fort Worth-based US legacy carrier and oneworld founding member claimed that there were issues with its airframe and engines. Singapore Airlines canceled its 20-aircraft MD-11 order in favor of the Airbus A340-300 due to the problems.

So how much did the MD-11 miss its range targets by? As we have established, its specified range was an impressive 12,455 km (6,725 NM). This could be as high as 13,000 km (7,000 NM) with a 28,000 kg payload. However, in reality, the underperforming MD-11 could only manage this if its payload dropped to 22,000 kg, a reduction of more than 20%. If the aircraft did fly with a full payload, this restricted its range to just 12,025 km (6,493 NM).

https://simpleflying.com/md-11-rise-fall/?newsletter_popup=1

Of course now China has money, but already A-321 is in China, and A-220 is not there because ARj-21 can not compete totally out classed

C919 also out classed obviously A-220 is the nail in the coffin, Even Embraer or Sukhoi should be worried A-220 has outclassed any regional jet the first project to officially failed was MRJ, only way to survive for Embraer a new jet or enter into the turbo prop market same is for Comac or Sukhoi.


of course specialist in propaganda can not see the best for Comac is a new variant or cooperate more with Airbus

 

[MiG-29SMT]

Airbus was built on European subsidies. It was not economically feasible in its early stage and had been a center of US-European trade disputes.

It was a strategic decision on the part of the EU. It is same for China and Comac. After seeing what happened to Russia with the embargo on Airbus and Boeing support, no major would ever want to be held hostage like this again.

That said, Airbus has a privileged position in China because of its assembly lines at Tianjin and the research and development centers established by Safran across China. Chinese companies not only supply parts to Airbus but alloys to Safran too!!!

China's HSR had also reduced dependence on the duopoly (and Embraer) for short haul. This increased perssure on the duopoly to use Chinese suppliers to keep flight as option for the Chinese market. They use COMAC as a partner because they are competing against China train industry.

Boeing is the one being left out because of strategic reasons. The ARJ-21, C919 and C929 will eventually replace Boeing.

Airbus with its lines in China supplied by the Chinese eco-system will be a favored vendor as COMAC builds up. Just like Tesla with its lines in Shanghai is a favored vendor to help drive China's EV industry.

Airbus was not as efficient as Boeing in the beginning. It just takes time for experience to take hold. The same thing will happen with COMAC. If you always use foreign aircraft only, you will never be in the industry. China want to be in the industry and it is strategic. Having more efficient Boeings is meaningless if they embargo you like Russia. Only a naive or retarded person would think only profit is important after seeing what happened to Russia.

In 1984, Lockheed ceased production of the L1011 TriStar airplane and exited the world of commercial aircraft for good. For Lockheed, its latest passenger jet had been heralded as a technological marvel but was, in fact, a business disaster.

For the answer, we need not limit ourselves to the U.S. but look further afield to Europe. An innovative plane from a new manufacturer, Airbus, entered the market after these two planes and eventually killed them both off. This plane was the twin-engine A300.

Airbus was either lucky or very calculated, depending on whom you talk to. The company understood that the outdated ETOPS regulations were created for a previous generation of aircraft and predicted that the reliability and performance of modern jet engines had to be recognized and the regulations updated accordingly. It gambled that ever-improving jet-engine technology, together with an exemplary performance record for the A300 for non-transatlantic flights, would lead to ETOPS certification. Airbus was right.

In 1977, the Airbus A300 became the first twin-engine aircraft to be ETOPS-compliant and certified for transatlantic flights. And that was it really for both TriStar and the DC-10. With three planes going after the same market segment, airlines went with the less expensive plane to operate and purchase. The TriStar was too expensive and the DC-10 had safety issues. Airbus may have been fortunate or remarkably smart to have the regulations to go their way. Still, the A300 was an innovative and compelling aircraft that could not be ignored — even by the American-centric U.S. airlines of the tim


https://www.designworldonline.com/tristar-a-misunderstood-failure-of-design/

of course yes you are very smart, however history of aviation of course is not your strong point though

of course your tantrums of for a retarded person, yes you can not work in a company with such smart ideas

 

[MiG-29SMT]

Airbus was built on European subsidies. It was not economically feasible in its early stage and had been a center of US-European trade disputes.

It was a strategic decision on the part of the EU. It is same for China and Comac. After seeing what happened to Russia with the embargo on Airbus and Boeing support, no major would ever want to be held hostage like this again.

That said, Airbus has a privileged position in China because of its assembly lines at Tianjin and the research and development centers established by Safran across China. Chinese companies not only supply parts to Airbus but alloys to Safran too!!!

China's HSR had also reduced dependence on the duopoly (and Embraer) for short haul. This increased perssure on the duopoly to use Chinese suppliers to keep flight as option for the Chinese market. They use COMAC as a partner because they are competing against China train industry.

Boeing is the one being left out because of strategic reasons. The ARJ-21, C919 and C929 will eventually replace Boeing.

Airbus with its lines in China supplied by the Chinese eco-system will be a favored vendor as COMAC builds up. Just like Tesla with its lines in Shanghai is a favored vendor to help drive China's EV industry.

Airbus was not as efficient as Boeing in the beginning. It just takes time for experience to take hold. The same thing will happen with COMAC. If you always use foreign aircraft only, you will never be in the industry. China want to be in the industry and it is strategic. Having more efficient Boeings is meaningless if they embargo you like Russia. Only a naive or retarded person would think only profit is important after seeing what happened to Russia.

Lockheed needed to sell 500 TriStars for the project to be profitable. When the aircraft’s production ended in 1984, Lockheed sold just 250 examples. Meanwhile, McDonnell Douglas moved just under 400 DC-10s by 1988. The TriStar’s failure would cause Lockheed to pull out of civil aviation entirely. The DC-10 was the victor, but McDonnell Douglas still didn’t make enough money. It couldn’t even afford to make a DC-10 successor. Thus, when the world moved to big twins all McDonnel Douglas could do was the MD-11 trijet

https://www.theautopian.com/the-loc...anced-aircraft-that-ended-up-a-total-failure/

not about the money yes the girl is right, but Lockheed disagrees

 

[SexyChineseLady]

The second C919 (B-001K) to be delivered to China Eastern!

 

[MiG-29SMT]

The second C919 (B-001K) to be delivered to China Eastern!

View attachment 203485
View attachment 203484
View attachment 203483
View attachment 203482

 

[SexyChineseLady]

Between Airbus expanding its assembly line in Tianjin and Safran expanding its R&D in China, there is little doubt that the EU, especially the French firms, are the privileged vendors in China. Boeing is being cut out and so will GE and P&W. The threat of embargo from them is too great:

 

[SexyChineseLady]

The first A321neo built at Tianjin!

 

[SexyChineseLady]

CR929 update:

Кессон композитного крыла самолёта CR929 покажут на МАКС-2023 » Авиация России

Второй прототип композитного кессона крыла широкофюзеляжного российско-китайского самолёта CR929, предназначенный для проведения ресурсных испытаний,

aviation21.ru

 

[SexyChineseLady]

Compared to the MRJ, China's less ambitious project with the ARJ-21 has proven to be the right strategy -- Japan had been following China's civil aviation programs intensely since the Mitsubishi SpaceJet was founded in 2007 (ARJ-21 development began in 2002) and finally cancelled this year in 2023:

 

[SexyChineseLady]

Flying the ARJ-21 to Bali!

- YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music that you love, upload original content and share it all with friends, family and the world on YouTube.

m.youtube.com

 

[SexyChineseLady]

Watch Indonesians take the ARJ-21 to Bali! So cool!

 

[SexyChineseLady]

Cockpit view of the C919 flight at the Zhuhai Airshow! Listen with full sound!

 

[MiG-29SMT]

 

[MiG-29SMT]

As China moves closer to mass production of its first large passenger jet, details are emerging that reveal how a state-owned aircraft manufacturer was able to build a plane that looks remarkably similar to a Boeing 737.

"It really looks like a knockoff," said Matt Pottinger, former deputy national security adviser during the Trump administration, describing the Chinese-built C919.

Critics argue that China's C919, the aircraft made by state-owned company, COMAC, is not only a threat to the U.S. economy and an effort to elbow Boeing out of the huge market in China, but also a chance for the Chinese military to benefit from access to American-made technology.

The C919 is so important to the Chinese Communist Party it's been called a source of national pride. The development of a low-cost large domestic airliner has been a top strategic goal for over a decade, as it could position China to eventually dominate one of the world's largest markets for jets. That possibility could end up costing the U.S. economy up to $1.5 trillion over the next 20 years.

The C919 looks similar to its competition, the Airbus A-320 and the Boeing 737. The familiar look is by design, according to current and former national security officials like Pottinger.

"China has a lot of different varieties of ways of relieving people of their intellectual property," Pottinger said.

Sixty percent of the plane's components are the result of deals with America's top aerospace companies like Collins Aerospace, GE Aviation and Honeywell. Entering into these joint ventures with China's industry is the steep price paid by American companies for admission into the nation's massive market.

"If you want to sell stuff to 1.3 billion people in China, you're gonna have to give us the blueprints for your goods or you're gonna have to go into a joint venture with us, where you're going to train our engineers," is how Pottinger explained China's strategy. "This is what we call 'forced technology transfer.'"

National security experts say there's another means by which China works to acquire American innovation: espionage.

Bill Evanina, who was America's top counterintelligence official when, beginning in 2017, the Department of Justice exposed an intricate scheme targeting American aviation technology, says the C919 is "proof" of the Chinese government's espionage, adding "they've been very successful at it."

A 2019 report by the cybersecurity firm Crowdstrike revealed one major focus of Beijing's spycraft: components of the C919.

GE officials told CBS News that the espionage effort targeting their engine design was detected early, and the company fully cooperated with the federal investigation that followed.


"Intellectual property is among our most valued assets, and the impact to GE Aerospace was minimal thanks to early detection, our advanced security systems, and our cooperation with the FBI," the company said in a statement.

The sentencing memorandum submitted by prosecutors in Xu's case revealed two state-owned companies involved in building the C919 were "the intended recipients of his spycraft."

How China developed its first large domestic airliner to take on Boeing and Airbus

A former U.S. national security official says China's C919 "looks like a knockoff."

www.cbsnews.com

 

[rockdog]

China’s newest turbofan is making flying hours

China’s newest turbofan is making flying hours |

China's newest turbofan is making flying hours. The AECC CJ-1000A that will power the COMAC C919 has been spotted flight testing

airinsight.com

China seems to make progress with the development of its indigenous medium-sized turbofan engine CJ-1000A, which has been spotted doing flight tests. The engine is under development since 2017, with the COMAC C919 specifically in mind. But like the airframe, progress has been slow even without taking the effects of the Covid crisis into account. China’s newest turbofan is making flying hours.


Launched in 2011, the CJ-1000 is developed by Aero Engine Corporation of China (AECC). which is part of the AVIC aerospace consortium. Video footage emerged earlier today on Chinese social media of a Xian Y-20 transport aircraft with the CJ-1000 in the number 2 position on the four-engine aircraft, which itself is still in the development phase.


The CJ-1000 is part of a two-member civil engine family, which also includes the bigger CJ-2000 that could end up on the CRAIC CR929 and the smaller CJ-500, which is sized for the ARJ-21. The ‘1000’ is a high-bypass, advanced turbofan with a minimum thrust of 14.000 pounds but developed for the C919 with a power range of around 30.000-31.000 pounds. This is comparable to the CFM LEAP-1C that is currently powering the Chinese airliner, which received type certification last September.


Like the LEAP, the CJ-1000A is a high-efficient turbofan with lower fuel consumption compared to previous-generation engines. It consists of a fan with eighteen, titanium blades, followed by a three-stage low-pressure compressor, a ten-stage high-pressure compressor, a two-stage high-pressure turbine, and a six-stage low-pressure turbine. The engine has been developed in-house, although the engineers will have taken a good look at Western engines like the LEAP.


The first engine has been completed as far back as late 2017 or some six months after the C919 made its first flight. It ran for the first time on the test stand in May 2018. A year later, three engines had been completed and undergoing various ground tests, including bird strikes. According to Chinese media reports, the engine was installed on an Ilyushin Il-1000 flying test bed in August 2020 but there are few details of the actual flight test program.


After delays during the Covid crisis, AECC accelerated the project in late 2022, with the aim to certify the CJ-1000 for the C919 in 2025. The latest test on the Y-20 seems to confirm that the engine is now in an active test phase.


Although she has been designed and developed for a few years now, China might feel an urgency to become independent of Western high-level technology as long as geopolitical tensions continue. The Trump Administration almost blocked LEAP deliveries to China after including COMAC on the sanction list. Still, engine deliveries continued.


As far as the C919 itself is concerned, the first aircraft that was delivered to China Eastern Airlines in December seems to have done very little flying in recent months. Her most recent flight was a short hop from Shanghai Hongqiao to Shanghai Pudong.

 

[SexyChineseLady]

China’s newest turbofan is making flying hours

China’s newest turbofan is making flying hours |

China's newest turbofan is making flying hours. The AECC CJ-1000A that will power the COMAC C919 has been spotted flight testing

airinsight.com

China seems to make progress with the development of its indigenous medium-sized turbofan engine CJ-1000A, which has been spotted doing flight tests. The engine is under development since 2017, with the COMAC C919 specifically in mind. But like the airframe, progress has been slow even without taking the effects of the Covid crisis into account. China’s newest turbofan is making flying hours.


Launched in 2011, the CJ-1000 is developed by Aero Engine Corporation of China (AECC). which is part of the AVIC aerospace consortium. Video footage emerged earlier today on Chinese social media of a Xian Y-20 transport aircraft with the CJ-1000 in the number 2 position on the four-engine aircraft, which itself is still in the development phase.


The CJ-1000 is part of a two-member civil engine family, which also includes the bigger CJ-2000 that could end up on the CRAIC CR929 and the smaller CJ-500, which is sized for the ARJ-21. The ‘1000’ is a high-bypass, advanced turbofan with a minimum thrust of 14.000 pounds but developed for the C919 with a power range of around 30.000-31.000 pounds. This is comparable to the CFM LEAP-1C that is currently powering the Chinese airliner, which received type certification last September.


Like the LEAP, the CJ-1000A is a high-efficient turbofan with lower fuel consumption compared to previous-generation engines. It consists of a fan with eighteen, titanium blades, followed by a three-stage low-pressure compressor, a ten-stage high-pressure compressor, a two-stage high-pressure turbine, and a six-stage low-pressure turbine. The engine has been developed in-house, although the engineers will have taken a good look at Western engines like the LEAP.


The first engine has been completed as far back as late 2017 or some six months after the C919 made its first flight. It ran for the first time on the test stand in May 2018. A year later, three engines had been completed and undergoing various ground tests, including bird strikes. According to Chinese media reports, the engine was installed on an Ilyushin Il-1000 flying test bed in August 2020 but there are few details of the actual flight test program.


After delays during the Covid crisis, AECC accelerated the project in late 2022, with the aim to certify the CJ-1000 for the C919 in 2025. The latest test on the Y-20 seems to confirm that the engine is now in an active test phase.


Although she has been designed and developed for a few years now, China might feel an urgency to become independent of Western high-level technology as long as geopolitical tensions continue. The Trump Administration almost blocked LEAP deliveries to China after including COMAC on the sanction list. Still, engine deliveries continued.


As far as the C919 itself is concerned, the first aircraft that was delivered to China Eastern Airlines in December seems to have done very little flying in recent months. Her most recent flight was a short hop from Shanghai Hongqiao to Shanghai Pudong.

Yes, it is this:

The CJ1000A being tested on the Y-20 FTB

Also the Y-20B flies with the WS-20 which has a civilian version called the AEF1300:

So there are multiple civilian turbofan programs going on concurrently.