Chinese Regional Jets & Airliners

MiG-29SMT

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Money is not the only issue and only a very naive or, more likely, a very retarded person would think so after Russia got banned from Airbus and Boeing parts ;)

It is a strategic industry. The world sundering into blocks. There no guarantee that you can even buy Airbus and Boeing as Russia's case has shown.

Russia is barring Western aircraft from overflying its air space in retaliation. That is already making Airbuses and Boeings inefficient flying from Europe to East Asia :D

For China, the ARJ-21, C919 and C929 and their engines, the CJ1000/2000/500, are strategic.
Range
Embraer also wins with its range compared to the ARJ21 (even including its particular long-range version). This makes it a better choice and more flexible for airlines.

The range of the E2 in the blue ring from Paris. Other E2 jets are on the side for reference. Photo: Embraer
Winner: E190-E2


ARJ21-700 vs. E190-E2

Here is how both aircraft stack up to each other:

  • The ARJ21-700 can carry 90 passengers in one class (exit limit 100), or 72 passengers in two classes, over a range of 1,200 nautical miles (2,200 km) or 2,000 nautical miles (3,700 km) if using the extended range version. Source.
  • The Embraer E190-E2 can carry 114 passengers in one class, or 'around 100 in two classes' (Embraer only lists one and three class options of 97 and 106 respectively). The aircraft can fly to a range of 2,850 nautical miles (5,278 km).
Short legged less passenger means more expensive passenger seat

 

MiG-29SMT

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From AECC, promotional film on the CJ2000 -- high efficiency wide-body turbofan with low CO emissions and 35000kg of force (343kN) to be certified by 2030:
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its engines are flying on Airbus family, Chinese jets fly with western jet engines some even have design by ITP, conclusion Chinese propaganda says Spain does not make jet engines only China.

Reality is ITP has real engines flying on Boeing and Airbus aircraft
 

MiG-29SMT

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From AECC, promotional film on the CJ2000 -- high efficiency wide-body turbofan with low CO emissions and 35000kg of force (343kN) to be certified by 2030:
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Could you tell us what expectations you share with AT Engine México in terms of market share and job creation?
At the beginning, General Electric offered us all LEAP turbine spare parts. Now, it wants us to manufacture new turbine parts because Airbus wants more engines now that its other supplier, Pratt and Whitney, could not provide what it promised. This new contract is a bit longer than the expected lifespan of the LEAP turbine (30 or 40 years). We hope it will be a job that will give us 30 years of production with the same engine, with a natural access to renovation, because it will give us the experience, the plant, and the equipment to win the next tender. Regarding jobs, the plant that AT Engine has built in Hermosillo will have approximately 400 employees.



1683270688308.png

AT engine a Mexican german company making jet engine parts in Sonora Mexico for the leap engine that powers C919



Ah but the Chinese girl says C919 has engines made in China
 

MiG-29SMT

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From AECC, promotional film on the CJ2000 -- high efficiency wide-body turbofan with low CO emissions and 35000kg of force (343kN) to be certified by 2030:
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Amigos the governor of Sonora says we are going to build parts for leap engines used on the C919
1683270998681.png


if you want a job apply
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The Company engages in the manufacturing of aerospace parts, mainly it produces components for aircraft turbines, such as: gears, hoses, among others.

Is AT ENGINE MEXICO S.A.P.I. DE C.V
The Mexican Altaser Aerospace allies with the German Aerotech to create AT Engine
This agreement translates into a joint investment of 200 million dollars and the creation of 400 direct jobs in Sonora

 

KurtisBrian

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Money is not the only issue and only a very naive or, more likely, a very retarded person would think so after Russia got banned from Airbus and Boeing parts ;)

It is a strategic industry. The world sundering into blocks. There no guarantee that you can even buy Airbus and Boeing as Russia's case has shown.

Russia is barring Western aircraft from overflying its air space in retaliation. That is already making Airbuses and Boeings inefficient flying from Europe to East Asia :D

For China, the ARJ-21, C919 and C929 and their engines, the CJ1000/2000/500, are strategic.
his comment is not retarded, it is based upon his nations needs.
most peoples and nations cannot create many things so they must buy. For those groups of peoples and nations money is vital. Money provides those people/nations with access to the products, knowledge, wealth, technologies of others.
Look how China changed once given hundreds of billions in USD FDI.
 

MiG-29SMT

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his comment is not retarded, it is based upon his nations needs.
most peoples and nations cannot create many things so they must buy. For those groups of peoples and nations money is vital. Money provides those people/nations with access to the products, knowledge, wealth, technologies of others.
Look how China changed once given hundreds of billions in USD FDI.
In general the ideal is for a nation build everything by themselves, I know China and Russia want to have 100% aircraft domestic with everything made and designed by themselves.

However economically it does not make sense because if you design and made something you pay for the Research and development costs and the market might not allow it.

Airbus was born from the need to share development costs thus reducing investment and increasing profits.

1683294442462.png


If you look at the picture England just build the wings, what are they gaining?

consider all these nations can build aircraft by their own, the reason is not to duplicate aircraft, reduce the investment for each member, thus is not only poor nations that share in joint ventures, but rich nations.
1683295450788.png

Same is jet engines. Rolls Royce does not build and design everything, that is a fallacy that they do everything, for example ITP from Spain builds and design most of the low pressure turbines of all Trent series, both gain because investment goes down.

1683295601150.png

Example GE, it allows Mexicans to develop jet engine parts and build them too.

GE does not train them totally, those cost are done by the Mexican government, the GE Queretaro has special treatment they pay less taxes or utilities.

Frisa and AT engines these 2 Mexican companies also pay for the factories making parts for GE in Mexico so GE saves money in investment.

Salaries are much lower in Mexico but when GE Queretaro designs something for CF-34 engines that power ARJ-21 the quality must keep GE standards.


In few words joint ventures always bring benefits for both parts as long as they keep the contract.

China is known to cheat, steal and copy without any respect in many cases, so collaboration with them is much more limited
 
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KurtisBrian

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Airbus was born from the need to share development costs thus reducing investment and increasing profits.
European nations are tiny, indebted, dying out and lacking resources. They no longer have technological superiority in most things. None, alone could compete with the US or even Soviet Union. Hence the group and the EU.
The US doesn't need partners. The US has big brains, technology, wealth and resources to build whatever it wants. US brings on partners to share with and raise up it's allies.

China is known to cheat, steal and copy without any respect in many cases, so collaboration with them is much more limited
Aren't most modern industries in China the result of collaboration or JVs? Probably our Chinese friends could find the data but the amount of FDI, JVs, technology sharing must be staggering.
Japan, then South Korea, then China.....Americans must really like or have great faith in East Asians.
Of course, China was not occupied in a war. So Americans might just have seen the CCP trying to do the same thing the US was created to do. Raise up the poor disenfranchised masses and slowly enrich the world. Same goal, each trying to get there in a different way. Europe nations of plunder, slavery and nobility didn't seem to have that goal.
 
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MiG-29SMT

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1683297403503.png


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Just look China builds more of C919 than England of A321, however the cheaper aircraft in terms of range and fuel burn and therefore ticket price per passenger goes to the aircraft England just builds the wings and these are made in longer production numbers
 
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MiG-29SMT

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his comment is not retarded, it is based upon his nations needs.
most peoples and nations cannot create many things so they must buy. For those groups of peoples and nations money is vital. Money provides those people/nations with access to the products, knowledge, wealth, technologies of others.
Look how China changed once given hundreds of billions in USD FDI.
European nations are tiny, indebted, dying out and lacking resources. They no longer have technological superiority in most things. None, alone could compete with the US or even Soviet Union. Hence the group and the EU.
The US doesn't need partners. The US has big brains, technology, wealth and resources to build whatever it wants. US brings on partners to share with and raise up it's allies.



Aren't most modern industries in China the result of collaboration or JVs? Probably our Chinese friends could find the data but the amount of FDI, JVs, technology sharing must be staggering.
Japan, then South Korea, then China.....Americans must really like or have great faith in East Asians.
Of course, China was not occupied in a war. So Americans might just have seen the CCP trying to do the same thing the US was created to do. Raise up the poor disenfranchised masses and slowly enrich the world. Same goal, each trying to get there in a different way.
The USA is a power no doubt about it but no nation can do everything, we all need each other, the mentality that rejects collaboration is the first step to become ignorant, even the USA collaborates, even if you think I am against Chinese, I am not, definitively we all need to cooperate otherwise nuclear war will show us the stupidity of arrogance, China will need to cooperate and same all nations that is the only way to keep peace Airbus is a good example
 

KurtisBrian

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The USA is a power no doubt about it but no nation can do everything, we all need each other, the mentality that rejects collaboration is the first step to become ignorant, even the USA collaborates, even if you think I am against Chinese, I am not, definitively we all need to cooperate otherwise nuclear war will show us the stupidity of arrogance, China will need to cooperate and same all nations that is the only way to keep peace Airbus is a good example
Then I guess there won't be peace.
 

MiG-29SMT

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Then I guess there won't be peace.
That would be a topic for another thread.

what is going to happen at least in the near future is AIrbus and Boeing will try to block China from stealing their market.

Reality wise it is impossible to stop China or India, Same applies to Russia and many other nations, economic globalization means no country can control everything, as Europe has shown cooperation, multination programs are then the way to follow.

In the Americas the time the USA reigned unopposed is over, in fact the major obstacle of American policies is the idea Latin America will remain under developed and controlled


in terms of aviation what will happen?

COMAC will try to keep its Chinese market monopolized, something will not happen since Airbus and Boeing are investing very much in obtaining cheaper manufacturing in nations like Mexico or Turkey.

In fact the C919 main engine LEAP series has a very large part manufactured in Mexico

Safran’s recently announced $75 million investment in a new factory in Mexico is part of the French engine maker’s concerted response to meeting the exceptionally high levels of demand for the Leap engines it produces through its CFM International joint venture with GE Aviation. By the end of 2017, the new plant at Queretaro, 125 miles north of Mexico City, will start producing 3-D woven composite fan blades for the Leap turbofans. By 2021, the facility, which is being built in partnership with U.S. company Albany International, is expected to reach an annual output rate of more than 20,000 blades.
The company’s existing Snecma Mexico subsidiary already produces parts for the CFM56 engines. By 2020, Leap production will account for 80 percent of the group’s overall activities in Mexico.

The existing Queretaro facility is being expanded by around 30 percent and the workforce there is increasing from 400 to 600 by 2020. Meanwhile, its sister factory at Suzhou in China, which also makes parts for the Leap engine, is also being expanded.






very likely if we learn to cooperate most aircraft will have parts from everywhere, that already is happening, but more and more aircraft programs from more nations will emerge and for nations like USA or China or multinational super states like the EU, the best is to have some parts build by them in all these programs but is impossible to stop more nations to emerge as aircraft powers, that Includes Iran, Russia, India, Pakistan, Brazil, Turkey, even Mexico, the future is the spread of knowledge and manufacturing.

The British know that so they invited Japan to Join Italy and England in a super fighter that will leave F-22, J-20 or Su-57 obsolete, the competition is heating up but the reality the best is cooperation

1683324454131.png


why? simple instead of building two supersonic different models and paying 100% of the bills, France built a single model paying 50% but with the possibility if the aircraft is successful build a better aircraft since more people means more ideas flowing and higher production numbers for a more advanced aircraft than building a less capable national aircraft in lower numbers for each nation.

And at this moment C919 is less capable than A321XRL, that later is a multinational program with more advanced technologies, does not matter the arrogance of China; Spain and England build better jet engines despite being smaller nations that build engines as joint ventures
 
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SexyChineseLady

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ONLY three other countries besides China -- the US, UK and Russia -- can build high bypass engines. (France's Safran has to partner with GE to build CFM engines.)

China is the fourth with WS-20 but it did not break the barrier with just one project. It is charging into high-bypass turbofans with a torrent of programs from a whole industry -- AEF1300, SF-A, CJ1000, CJ2000 and CJ500 ;)

China is not a newbie cracking into a club. This is an industry that will be mass producing civilian turbofans just like its military ones :)


IMG_8340.jpeg

IMG_8341.jpeg


IMG_8342.jpeg
 

SexyChineseLady

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One picture represents a thousand words.

There are only a handful of Flying testbeds in the world. Giant countries like India need to send their indigenous engines to be tested in Russia and France.

Even fewer are countries that can develop a indigenous high-bypass engine.

The Y-20 FTB testing the CJ1000 -- one picture tells you everything ;)

IMG_8344.jpeg
 

rockdog

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propaganda pure propaganda, in fact C919 uses leap engines and even if they use their engines still is unproven
ur prediction is always inaccurate, remember u said PLA only afford 40 J20 now it's almost 200...
 
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KurtisBrian

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ur prediction is always inaccurate, remember u said PLA only afford 40 J20 now it's almost 200...
To be fair, the Chinese have consistently been designing and building things at a much faster rate than all the pundits and experts estimate. They don't understand China so they get almost everything wrong.

Silly people never bothered to compare colors of the China CCP flag with DC's Flash costume. Also never bothered to eat dim sum.
If they had bothered they would realize Chinese are faster than anyone would believe and so crazy about working they are willing to make all sorts of strange and wonderful stuffed dumplings for, what appears to me, no other reason than variety and making more work.

Japanese, also industrious workers, do similar things with sushi. 😄
 

MiG-29SMT

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ur prediction is always inaccurate, remember u said PLA only afford 40 J20 now it's almost 200...
blah blah blah better study at least aviation history, but I will tell you a secret you mind can not understand, China will never rule the world everything is a set up
 

MiG-29SMT

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To be fair, the Chinese have consistently been designing and building things at a much faster rate than all the pundits and experts estimate. They don't understand China so they get almost everything wrong.

Silly people never bothered to compare colors of the China CCP flag with DC's Flash costume. Also never bothered to eat dim sum.
If they had bothered they would realize Chinese are faster than anyone would believe and so crazy about working they are willing to make all sorts of strange and wonderful stuffed dumplings for, what appears to me, no other reason than variety and making more work.

Japanese, also industrious workers, do similar things with sushi. 😄
read geopolitical thought, to understand aviation history you need to read a lot, to understand geopolitics you have to do the same, read a lot, the more you read, the more you will understand
 

MiG-29SMT

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To be fair, the Chinese have consistently been designing and building things at a much faster rate than all the pundits and experts estimate. They don't understand China so they get almost everything wrong.

Silly people never bothered to compare colors of the China CCP flag with DC's Flash costume. Also never bothered to eat dim sum.
If they had bothered they would realize Chinese are faster than anyone would believe and so crazy about working they are willing to make all sorts of strange and wonderful stuffed dumplings for, what appears to me, no other reason than variety and making more work.

Japanese, also industrious workers, do similar things with sushi. 😄
1683420934007.png

range translate into orders

1683421086290.png


Basically C919 is in the same situation E jets are
 

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