China's first indigenous carrier CV17

[Kalki_2018]

So what was the time before breakdown this time? 5-6 days, not bad chinese are improving.

 

[SexyChineseLady]

The drydock is flooded again and they’ve added new radar plates on top of mast.

Four days ago:

Yesterday:

Please imagine all kinds of issues for the carrier. LoL

 

[SexyChineseLady]

Only an idiot would think you can immediately drydock a 65000 ton carrier without major planning before hand and then have the radar plates ready for installation too.

Everything is planned meticulously with the drydocking, radar installation, the second hotel ship, the second carrier and then in the near future most likely a photo op of both carriers in formation.

 

[J20!]

High res pics of both carriers taken on the 9th of June 2018.

There has been a lot of work done on the vessel since she returned from her first sea trial. Hopefully we'll get to see her pennant number soon.

Looking at the pic from Monday, scaffolding around the 3D air search radar has been removed and the flight deck has been cleared slightly. Another leg of sea trials imminent?:

Significant work is also being done on CV16. Her flight deck has also been occupied by cranes and machinery, but more interesting is the removal of her Type 382 3D air search radar... Replacement, repair or or upgrade in the pipeline?

 

[J20!]

A China Shipbiulding Industry Corporation meeting including the organisations CEO. Projected there is a representation of what is likely the 3rd carrier supposedly under construction at JCNX in Shanghai:

What lends this graphic credibility is the arrangement of the carrier's island; which closely resembles the latest iteration of the island mock-up in Wuhan:

It features a dual band air search radar (as seen on the Type 055 destroyers) instead of the Type 382 that appears on both Liaoning and the Type 001A

But as usual, take this with a grain of salt till the actual carrier starts taking shape in Shanghai

 

[AMCA]

Disgraced manager at shipbuilding juggernaut allegedly ‘sold Chinese carrier intel to CIA’
Sun Bo is under a probe for graft and rumored espionage; meanwhile a new rendering of a future carrier without a ski-jump bow is released and then deleted
By FRANK CHEN JUNE 21, 2018 4:43 PM (UTC+8)

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A file photo of the Chinese aircraft carrier Liaoning. Photo: Xinhua
A disgraced senior executive of the state-owned China Shipbuilding Industry Corp (CSIC) is said to have fed US spies highly classified information, including the design and specifications of the Liaoning aircraft carrier that underwent years of refurbishment at CSIC’s Dalian Shipyard.

CSIC general manager Sun Bo, the second-highest-ranking executive at the shipbuilding juggernaut, has run afoul of graft and crime busters at the National Supervision Commission and the Communist Party’s Central Commission for Discipline Inspection and is under investigation for “gross violation of laws and party discipline,” according to a one-line notice posted last week on the two commissions’ joint website that is devoid of any further details.

Sun’s last public appearance was on June 11 during an inspection trip to a CSIC logistics subsidiary.

CSIC general manager Sun Bo (third from left) was last seen when visiting a subsidiary of the shipbuilding giant on June 11. Photo: CSIC
Sina Military and Hong Kong-based Apple Daily noted that Sun could have divulged some drawings and other information of the Soviet-built Liaoning, as well as its retrofitting work during the 2000s, to US Central Intelligence Agency operatives.

The allegation has also raised questions on whether the confidentiality undertaking regarding technical details of China’s first domestically built carrier, which is modeled heavily on the Liaoning‘s design including a similar jump-rack deck, could have also been compromised.

A file photo shows China’s first domestically built carrier cruising back to its berth at the Dalian Shipyard following its maiden voyage in May. The homemade carrier is wrapping up its sea trials with delivery expected by the end of the year. Photo: AFP
Sun, 57, holds a doctorate in vessel and marine structures design from the Dalian University of Technology and spent most of his career heading the Dalian Shipyard when the Liaoning was being rebuilt there.

Some suspect that Sun’s case could be a money-for-intelligence one, if the leakage accusation can be substantiated, though Beijing is unlikely to reveal the results of a probe of such a sensitive case involving a member of the top management at a key defense conglomerate that, other than the two carriers, is also contracted to build advanced destroyers and frigates for the People’s Liberation Army.

But Beijing-based observer Li Jie told Singapore’s Lianhe Zaobao that Sun could be hard put to intervene with the retrofitting and construction of the two carriers given the rigorous supervision and background check in place, and neither did his case have anything to do with the rumored quality issues of the two vessels.

Meanwhile, CSIC on Wednesday reported on its WeChat account that its president Hu Wenming had reiterated the “paramount urgency to stay loyal to the party and fend off infiltration as well as graft” at an internal meeting.

Yet one photo of the meeting, held at CSIC’s China Ship and Vessel Research and Design Institute in the central city of Wuhan, has piqued more interest.

A new, colossal flattop that dwarfs the two existing carriers is seen in a photo released but later deleted by the state-owned shipbuilder CSIC. Photo: CSIC WeChat account
A computer-generated rendering depicting a massive cavalcade of three carriers and other warships was revealed in the photo, and other than the Liaoning and its yet-to-be-christened sister ship currently finalizing its sea trials, a new, bigger carrier is sailing front and center in the picture.

Analysts believe it could be China’s second home-made carrier, and the first to sport a distinctive “flattop” design. Previous rumors about the new seagoing airbase include a conventional power train and possibly three electromagnetic catapults on its flight deck.

Beijing-based military commentator Song Zhongping told Global Times that the future carrier could have a displacement of 80,000 tons.

The photo was deleted later on Wednesday amid heated speculation about future Chinese carriers.

CSIC also disclosed in February its plan to build China’s first nuclear-powered carrier – likely at its Bohai Shipyard in Huludao in the northeastern province of Liaoning, where China’s first nuclear submarine was built – in a roadmap of weaponry upgrades for the PLA Navy by 2025, though it’s unknown if Sun’s fall from grace will have any impact on the ambitious plan.

 

[Armand2REP]

To put back into dry dock after a few days means either hull, stearage or propulsion problems.

 

[Steven Rogers]

Only an idiot would think you can immediately drydock a 65000 ton carrier without major planning before hand and then have the radar plates ready for installation too.

Everything is planned meticulously with the drydocking, radar installation, the second hotel ship, the second carrier and then in the near future most likely a photo op of both carriers in formation.

65k tons impressive but why it can't carry aircrafts as much as HMS ELIZABETH.

 

[Compersion]

what happens if the person knowing they are being copied ... (one hint - supply sub-standard design and guide the copier in the wrong direction)

what happens if the copying is being done unfairly ... theft?

what happens if the copying is really good and make many copies and later realise something is better?

(only some examples)

(only some thoughts)

But not all bad - some good things perhaps in PRC - look at the speed and scale of some industry and dimensions. one instance the development of Drones and toys ...

 

[Steven Rogers]

...

Oh that's why Indians have indigenous designed carrier under final integration. By the way do answer why Chinese newest carrier uses Steam turbines(obsolete for a carrier which is,meant to be driven for next 50 years)and terrible aircraft nos on board(compared to the similar carriers ex. HMS ELIZABETH).

 

[lcafanboy]

...

Why copy? INS Vikrant is absolutely new and unique design, designed by naval design bureau. Yes it is late but not a copy.

WRT ins Vikramaditya it's an original Russian upgraded by Russians and is very potent unlike varyag aka Liaoning which is still a training ship not even able to come out of south China sea (a chick in egg) while ins Vikramaditya travelled all the way from Russia to India and is on regular patrols...

 

[nimo_cn]

Oh that's why Indians have indigenous designed carrier under final integration. By the way do answer why Chinese newest carrier uses Steam turbines(obsolete for a carrier which is,meant to be driven for next 50 years)and terrible aircraft nos on board(compared to the similar carriers ex. HMS ELIZABETH).

indigenously designed? what a joke! it's well known that india outsourced the designing to Frenchman.

I am not an expert, but I think most ACs are steam-propelled, even the so-called nuclear powered ACs are in fact propelled by steam generated by nuclear reactor.

 

[nimo_cn]

Why copy? INS Vikrant is absolutely new and unique design, designed by naval design bureau. Yes it is late but not a copy.

WRT ins Vikramaditya it's an original Russian upgraded by Russians and is very potent unlike varyag aka Liaoning which is still a training ship not even able to come out of south China sea (a chick in egg) while ins Vikramaditya travelled all the way from Russia to India and is on regular patrols...

vikran's design is no new invention, its general layout is basically conventional, and it's designed by non indian.

PLA claimed that liaoning would be used as a training ship like 5 years ago for obvious reason. the fact is that there is no such thing as training AC, are you really that naive to believe that pla would invest billions in an aircraft carrier that can't combat.

 

[Steven Rogers]

indigenously designed? what a joke! it's well known that india outsourced the designing to Frenchman.

I am not an expert, but I think most ACs are steam-propelled, even the so-called nuclear powered ACs are in fact propelled by steam generated by nuclear reactor.

Oh really, those Chinese experts claimed or what, Indian carrier is not even similar to the same in class Charles de gaulle but acc to Chinese experts they are borrowed design. The carriers you're talking about belongs to 70s era design. Have look at Ford and ELIZABETH class ships. Nuke carriers can be understood with steam turbine in order to avoid cost escalation And little requirement for efficiency, but what happened to those chinese generals who take pride on a copied design with steam propulsion with hardly any endurance to be deployed abroad.

 

[Flame Thrower]

indigenously designed? what a joke! it's well known that india outsourced the designing to Frenchman.

Any source to back up your claims!!!??

 

[Hari Sud]

Learn to operate these very complex floating cities, China. The blue water dream navy is not possible without learning to operate them well. Naval warfare is new to Chinese who only a decade or so back were afraid of the deep sea. Now, suddenly they have started to make them as if dollar store items. These ships, first are based on reverse engineered technology and second, Chinese have had not enough time to digest the technology. I hope they do not tangle with US in South China Sea (outside of it, Chinese have no capability to operate) and find a bulk of their naval vessels at the bottom of the sea. It has happened before in North China Sea, when over confident Russia Czar sent his navy to teach Japanese a lesson in 1905. The big armada travelled around the Africa, thru the Indian Ocean and thru China Sea and straight into an ambush set up by the Japanese. Most of the ships - 95% were sunk and Russia lost the battle. It happened again in 1943 when four Japanese aircraft carrier were ambushed in Philippines and sunk, resulting in ultimate defeat of Japan.

Now it is Chinese turn to face these consequences. They have become over bearing and over confident after their full capture of South China Sea in last four years. Their turn of demise is very near,.

 

[J20!]

A Hi-Res satellite pic depicting both carriers, the 2 barracks ships attached to them and the flooded dry dock:

 

[J20!]

Any source to back up your claims!!!??

@nimo_cn is mistaken. IAC was not designed in France. It is a well documented fact that the carrier was designed with significant Italian assistance. Italians who are still on contract until the ship has completed sea trials:

Furthermore, by August 2004, both Defense News and Jane's Defence Weekly were reporting that the Indian Ministry of Defence had awarded a $30 million contract to Fincantieri's Naval Vessel Business Unit to help prepare the concept, design, and implementation plans for the vessel. The Italian company was awarded the contract over DCN International of France, who had originally won the contract for the design study in 1989, and Izac Construcciones Navales of Spain.

The first contract covered assessment of the entire ship's design and responsibility for "propulsion system integration" in addition to providing assistance to the shipyard during installation of the engines and during the successive phase of tests of integration and sea trials. During the development of the design a team of officers of the Indian Navy and engineering experts from Cochin shipyard would work in Italy together with Fincantieri technical staff at the headquarters of the Naval Vessel Business Unit.


The second contract regarded the supply of the engineering and detailed design of the ancillary propulsion systems and the ship's main plants. Again, Fincantieri would provide the shipyard with assistance while construction is in progress and during tests and trials. The two contracts were expected to cover approximately 2 years, although assistance would continue until the trials and delivery have taken place - scheduled to occur by the end of this decade.

This last design iteration showed much influence from the Italian Andrea Dorea Class carrier (currently known as the Cavour Class) in that there was much sloping of the superstructure and ship sides. Powered by four LM 2500 gas turbines, generating 80 MW of power driving 2 shafts, the ship would be able to achieve speeds in excess of 28 knots. Manned by a complement of 1,600 officers and men, she would have an endurance of 7,500-8,000 nautical miles, and the logistic endurance of 45 days. She would be the first warship to be built with quality steel, developed in India by DRDO and SAIL.

No rational observer could deny Fincatieri's role in the design and construction of INS Vikrant. Yes, the primary designer was the Directorate of Naval Design and it is being built at Cochin, but it borrows significantly from Fincantieri's design of the Cavour; its aviation equipment is designed and installed by Russia’s Nevskoye Design Bureau, the gas turbines the fanboy is boasting about are American and its sensors are from Thales.

But this is all off-topic. If you want to discuss how indegenous Vikrant and its LM 2500 gas turbines are, kindly do so in the appropriate thread.

@nimo_cn , ignore @lcafanboy and @Hari Sud before they start posting the usual pictures of scooters on an aircraft carrier thread to illustrate how "superior" India is to China.

 

[lcafanboy]

@nimo_cn is mistaken. IAC was not designed in France. It is a well documented fact that the carrier was designed with significant Italian assistance. Italians who are still on contract until the ship has completed sea trials:











No rational observer could deny Fincatieri's role in the design and construction of INS Vikrant. Yes, the primary designer was the Directorate of Naval Design and it is being built at Cochin, but it borrows significantly from Fincantieri's design of the Cavour; its aviation equipment is designed and installed by Russia’s Nevskoye Design Bureau, the gas turbines the fanboy is boasting about are American and its sensors are from Thales.

But this is all off-topic. If you want to discuss how indegenous Vikrant and its LM 2500 gas turbines are, kindly do so in the appropriate thread.

@nimo_cn , ignore @lcafanboy and @Hari Sud before they start posting the usual pictures of scooters on an aircraft carrier thread to illustrate how "superior" India is to China.

Did I boast LM2500 turbine to be Indian? Naval design bureau with the help of fincantieri of Italy has designed INS Vikrant. Their help has ended there rest of the work was done by Cochin shipyard. Again many of the subsystems like turbines, aircraft recovery arrestors, radars are procured from global suppliers just like car manufacturer (why invent wheel when it's already available), but since no one sell these to China due to copy paste habit and thieving IPR you people have to use substandard chinese JUNK. Atleast the end product INS Vikrant is far superior than chinese junk carrier. Same with other products.

 

[vampyrbladez]

@nimo_cn is mistaken. IAC was not designed in France. It is a well documented fact that the carrier was designed with significant Italian assistance. Italians who are still on contract until the ship has completed sea trials:











No rational observer could deny Fincatieri's role in the design and construction of INS Vikrant. Yes, the primary designer was the Directorate of Naval Design and it is being built at Cochin, but it borrows significantly from Fincantieri's design of the Cavour; its aviation equipment is designed and installed by Russia’s Nevskoye Design Bureau, the gas turbines the fanboy is boasting about are American and its sensors are from Thales.

But this is all off-topic. If you want to discuss how indegenous Vikrant and its LM 2500 gas turbines are, kindly do so in the appropriate thread.

@nimo_cn , ignore @lcafanboy and @Hari Sud before they start posting the usual pictures of scooters on an aircraft carrier thread to illustrate how "superior" India is to China.

We all start somewhere. This carrier is based on Lianoning and had faulty construction. Maybe learning is a curve based process.