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J20!

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The way you said it made the difference.



Joint venture to produce a Chinese version. when it is a joint venture how can it be a Chinese version?
*rolls eyes* If it wasn't a Chinese version of the S400, it would simply be the S400, not HQ19. Its a variant specifically designed to satsfy PLA requirements. So according to your logic, Brahmos isn't Indian because its a joint venture with Russia, a modification of the Russian P800 Oniks?
 
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SPIEZ

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@ j20. It's a joint production, it's also Chinese not Chinese alone. It's not a Chinese version, it's a joint-venture. And lets get back on topic.
 
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J20!

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@ j20. It's a joint production, it's also Chinese not Chinese alone.
I never said it was a lone venture by China, I said its a Chinese version of the S400.
So back on topic, this report is basically horse fart, we dont need either of the systems mentioned.
 

tony4562

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I don't think China has S-400 but I do think China is working on something that will make S-400 look like a child's toy. These days there is very little, besides perhaps some strategic weapon technologies which the russians pretty much pawned their entire economy to develop during the soviet years, that Russia has and China also wants. China currently has better industries across the board, and a much younger, more energetic, and larger worker force, and mostly importanlyt an economy that absolutely dwarfs Russia's counterpart.

Just how advanced China has become in air defence, here is an example: besides the US, China is the only country that has carried out successful anti-satellite and exo-atomspheric anti-ballistic missile tests through direct impact.
 

Armand2REP

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Su35 is hardly the wonder 4.5+ gen fighter Russia desperately wants you to believe. Russia's overall technology level (design, materials, process, electronics) is easily 3 decades behind US, there is no way Russian products can be on par with western offerings. Russia also has a habbit of severely inflating the performance figures of its weapons. China saw through this after spending lots of moeny on Russian weapons from the middle 90's to middle 00's. By the end of this period China, which had become a manufacturing powerhouse and the world factory, realized that she actually had better manufacturing capabilities than Russia had and newer generation domestic weapons were actally better made. That's why China stopped the Su27 joint venture, and opted to remake the original Su27 with domestic engines, domestic airframe, domestic radar, domestic control systems and not least domestic weapons (PL12 replacing R27/R77, and PL8 replacing R73).
With russian defence industry literally dying (avg age of engineers employed in the defence sector is like 60), it won't be long til we see Russia starts buying China-made equipment in drools. It is already happening in the civilian sector.
Russian fighters are obsolete yet Chicoms want to get their hands on it. :rolleyes:
 

nimo_cn

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Russian fighters are obsolete yet Chicoms want to get their hands on it. :rolleyes:
Well, China isn't the one who accepts Russia's offer to "co-develop" a 5G plane.

Russian fighters might be obsolete, but it doesn't mean there isn't anything good left in them. I won't mind if PLA one or two of them and do some analysis on them, finding out advantages and disadvantages. That is something we call learning process, something apparently India lacks, that is why India ends up importing French Rafales.
 

Armand2REP

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Russia isn't going to sell "one or two of them." They are going to make them buy at least 40 and pay upfront.
 

huaxia rox

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Well, China isn't the one who accepts Russia's offer to "co-develop" a 5G plane.
when russia says lets co-develop something it means 'u give me money and i give u something i ve already done' under the name of 'we do that together'........if somalia gives russia enough money....they can co develop su-xx-mks......or some anti ship missile....and of coz.....somalia will tell us it will play a frigging cruial and unreplaceable role in those projects.....
 

SPIEZ

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when russia says lets co-develop something it means 'u give me money and i give u something i ve already done' under the name of 'we do that together'........if somalia gives russia enough money....they can co develop su-xx-mks......or some anti ship missile....and of coz.....somalia will tell us it will play a frigging cruial and unreplaceable role in those projects.....
So you agree that China has given money to Russia to develop J11,J12,J11/12BS,J16 silent $hit or whatever it is. :rofl:
 

huaxia rox

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su-27 or j-11 project is indeed a ripoff.....we got no choice then.....but after that...we never codevelop anything......we still buying stuff from russia indeed but we dont use the word 'codevelop' as if we can contribute anything other than money to make us look good.........
 

sayareakd

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can chines member guarantee that not sngle unit of s400 or SU 35 would be purchases by them in future.
 

J20!

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can chines member guarantee that not sngle unit of s400 or SU 35 would be purchases by them in future.
I'll say it again, WHY WOULD YOU BUY THE S400 WHEN YOU ALREADY OPERATE IT? As for the Su35, I sincerely doubt the PLAAF wants it. Why would they want another flanker variant of which they already operate several?
 

J20!

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So you agree that China has given money to Russia to develop J11,J12,J11/12BS,J16 silent $hit or whatever it is. :rofl:
The only thing China paid the Russians for was the J11/Su27SK, which was bullshit with ancient avionics, minimal composite usage, a massive 15m squared RCS and a quite sad radar. The J11B wasn't a collabo, peel the flanker body off it,, and its nothing but chinese avionics, weapons radar systems, IRST and now, even its engine is Chinese ( sorry armand). There is no J12. The J11BS is a twin seater fighter bomber flanker variant and the J16 is a rumoured semi stealth variant of the J11B. I dont see how Russia developed any of these variants for us.
 

SPIEZ

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su-27 or j-11 project is indeed a ripoff.....we got no choice then.....but after that...we never codevelop anything......we still buying stuff from russia indeed but we dont use the word 'codevelop' as if we can contribute anything other than money to make us look good.........
The only thing China paid the Russians for was the J11/Su27SK, which was bullshit with ancient avionics, minimal composite usage, a massive 15m squared RCS and a quite sad radar. The J11B wasn't a collabo, peel the flanker body off it,, and its nothing but chinese avionics, weapons radar systems, IRST and now, even its engine is Chinese ( sorry armand). There is no J12. The J11BS is a twin seater fighter bomber flanker variant and the J16 is a rumoured semi stealth variant of the J11B. I dont see how Russia developed any of these variants for us.
Earlier one of your friends said this if you remember

The HQ19 is a sino-russian joint project to produce a Chinese version of the S400:
[\quote]

I fail to see how that isn't a co-development.

Also regarding the J11 BS case, althought I appreciate the effort that you make it yourselves. Practically it is a Su 27, when it has a Su 27 body, Su 27 engine, IRST. And I fail to see why you don't agree it isn't a Su27.
 

lambu

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PLA's New 'Airborne' Accretions

China's People's Liberation Army Navy (PLAN), which in December 2010 commissioned its first three of nine Ka-31 shipborne airborne early warning (AEW) helicopters into service, is now gearing up to receive its first home-grown Z-8JA shipborne AEW helicopters. The Ka-31s were ordered in 2006 from Russia's Kumertau Aviation Production Enterprise JSC as part of an order for 18 helicopters, which included nine shipborne Ka-28PL anti-submarine warfare helicopters as well. Earlier, in 1998, the PLAN had ordered its first eight Ka-28PLs. Present plans call for the Ka-31s and Z-8JAs to be deployed on board the PLAN's two existing Type 052C Luyang 2-class guided-missile destroyers (DDG 170 Lanzhou and DDG 171 Haikou) that are each armed with eight 300km-range YJ-62 (C-602) anti-ship cruise missiles (ASCM), on the four additional Type 052C DDGs now under construction, and on the PLAN's four Type 071 Yuzhao-class landing platform docks (LPD). The Ka-31, which is also capable of providing over-the-horizon targetting cues for ASCMs, comes equipped with an E-801M solid-state early warning radar capable to detecting and tracking up to 20 targets simultaneously at the distance up to 150km (for airborne aircraft) and up to 285km (warships). The Z-8JA helicopter, on the other hand, is a home-grown product, with Jingdezhen-based Changhe Aircraft Industry Group (CAIG) building the helicopter and CETC supplying the X-band KLC-7 AEW radar suite, which can also function as a synthetic aperture radar for maritime surveillance. The Z-8JA, equipped with a two-man glass cockpit and a mission management system manned by a two-man crew, is powered by three WZ-6 engines each rated at 1,512hp (1,128kW), has an internal fuel capacity of 3,900 litres, has a service ceiling of 3.1km, and a mission endurance of four hours.

Meanwhile, the commercial arm of China's People's Liberation Army Air Force (PLAAF)—China United Airlines—is presently negotiating the procurement of 18 pre-owned Ilyushin IL-76MD transport aircraft from private Russian aircraft owners (there are an estimated 106 IL-76MDs in service with several Russia-based aviation companies), and deliveries are due to begin by this April and be completed by June 2012. The PLAAF has fast-tracked the procurement of these 18 IL-76MDs so that these aircraft are all available for regional emergencies/contingencies that call for either the swift evacuation of Chinese citizens abroad, or evacuation of Chinese infrastructure property from foreign soil. It is believed that the PLAAF is bracing for the breakout of hostilities in the Middle East, especially in Syria or Iran.

It may be recalled that the PLAAF has since 1991 acquired 20 IL-76MDs from Russia (B-4030 through to B-4049) and four IL-76MDs (30071, 30072, 30073, and 30074) from Uzbekistan's Tashkent Aviation Production Association (TAPO). While the 19 remaining Russia-origin IL-76MDs are presently operational with China United Airlines and are actually operated by the PLAAF's 13th Air Division based at Wuhan in Hubei Province, and the 34th Air Division based at Nanyuan air base in Beijing, the four TAPO-delivered IL-76MDs were converted between October 1999 and 2006 into airborne early warning and control (AEW & C) platforms, called Kong Jing-2000 (KJ-2000). The first KJ-2000 technology demonstrator (converted from an existing IL-76MD transport owned by China United Airlines) made its maiden flight at the China Flight Test Establishment (CFTE) in Yanliang, Shaanxi Province. Following this, four KJ-2000 AEW & C platforms were acquired and all four are now operated by the PLAAF's 26th Air Division based in the eastern Zhejiang province near the Taiwan Strait.

In September 2005, China and Russia's Rosoboronexport State Corp had inked an agreement worth US$1.5 billion under which TAPO was to have supplied the PLAAF with 16 IL-76MD transports, with Russia's Ulyanovsk-based Aviastar-SP supplying the remaining 18 IL-76MDs and four IL-78MKK aerial refuelling tankers. This deal, however, has been frozen since March 2006 due to TAPO's inability to execute the order. Consequently, Russia took all responsibility for fulfilling the PLAAF's order, and the first IL-76MD to be built by Aviastar-SP is due for delivery by the end of this year.

In another development, Indonesia will soon ink an agreement with China for procuring C-705 anti-ship cruise missiles. A total of 40 C-705s will be procured for the 20 guided-missile fast-attack craft (FAC-M) now being built by Indonesia's PT Palindo Marine Industri (PMI), based in Batam, off Singapore. The first such KCR-40 FAC-M--KRI Clurit 641—was launched on April 26, 2011 by Indonesia's Defence Minister Purnomo Yusgiantoro. This FAC-M, which was built with the help of graduates from the Surabaya Institute of Technology, is equipped with a THALES-supplied Sensor Weapon Control (SEWACO) combat management system, a CETC-built target acquisition/engagement radar for the C-705, plus a 30mm cannon and two 12.7mm heavy machine guns. The FAC-M is 44 metres long, 8 metres wide and 3.4 metres high, can develop a maximum speed of 30 Knots. Each KCR-40 FAC-M will house two stern-mounted inclined C-705 launchers. The KRI Clurit was named after a Madurese dagger. Clurit has a form of a question mark believed to reflect the character of Madurese people who will never be satisfied with what they have and their tenacity.—Prasun K Sengupta

TRISHUL
 
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tony4562

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The HQ19 is a sino-russian joint project to produce a Chinese version of the S400:
[\quote]

I fail to see how that isn't a co-development.

Also regarding the J11 BS case, althought I appreciate the effort that you make it yourselves. Practically it is a Su 27, when it has a Su 27 body, Su 27 engine, IRST. And I fail to see why you don't agree it isn't a Su27.

Only the first batch of J11B use AL-31F, all follow-on batches as well as J15 use WS10.









 

tony4562

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J11B has new radar, new engine, new FBW, new weapon suit, and a lot more composites (700kg lighter). Yes it is still a Su27 in the same way that the current generation of Boeing 737 (700/800/900) is still a Boeing 737, just vastly better.
 

sayareakd

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I'll say it again, WHY WOULD YOU BUY THE S400 WHEN YOU ALREADY OPERATE IT? As for the Su35, I sincerely doubt the PLAAF wants it. Why would they want another flanker variant of which they already operate several?
yes or no would be easy way to answer, i would take it no, unless you want to change that. Let wait and watch what happen next.
 

Armand2REP

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All that is at Shenyang testing facilities. It isn't active.
 

asianobserve

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The simple fact is that China still has capability gaps that must be filled in by Russian imports.
 
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