China Military News & Updates

[SammyCheung]

Hmm didn't chinese navy clash with the US Navy in international waters recently.

How do you defend that action?

They were gathering intelligence SIGINT. Ships can pass through international waters, but if you gather intelligence in other country's EEZ they will get angry.

 

[hit&run]

Hmmmmm, inspiring question, how do I defend ... what? There was a traffic accident in international water, so did somebody disobeyed traffic light and had to defend?

Last year a French sub collided with a British sub, should anybody defend?

China demanded US navy to end Surveillance missions.

China's Defense Ministry has demanded that the U.S. Navy end surveillance missions off the country's southern coast following a weekend confrontation between an American vessel and Chinese ships.

In its first public comment on the Sunday episode, the ministry repeated earlier statements from the Foreign Ministry that the unarmed U.S. ship was operating illegally inside China's exclusive economic zone when it was challenged by three Chinese government ships and two Chinese-flagged trawlers.

"The Chinese side's carrying out of routine enforcement and safeguarding measures within its exclusive economic zone was entirely appropriate and legal," ministry spokesman Huang Xueping said in a statement faxed overnight to reporters.

"We demand the United States respect our legal interests and security concerns, and take effective measures to prevent a recurrence of such incidents," Huang said.

That was not an accident, china is trying to challenge US by these accident tricks. China has no capabilities to directly confront mighty US navy and they are not listening to chines pledges. Now both are out scouting each other.
(i am just answering your accident theory which is not so true, not what a nation should do to protect its interest)

 

[LETHALFORCE]

They were gathering intelligence. Ships can pass through international waters, but if you gather intelligence in other country's EEZ they will get angry.

if it was international waters why did they get angry and collide??

 

[Avinash R]

Hmmmmm, inspiring question, how do I defend ... what? There was a traffic accident in international water, so did somebody disobeyed traffic light and had to defend?

Last year a French sub collided with a British sub, should anybody defend?

Let me understand your position better. Your point was patrolling by naval vessels in international waters along chinese coasts is "non of anybody's business". Right?

If yes then how do you defend the purposeful collison of chinese vessel with american naval ship which increased tensions in the region. Doesn't it contradict your claim?

BTW for clarity i am refering to this incident.
China-US Naval Incident Part of a Rising Trend - ABC News

Unlike the french-british incident were there was no malicious intent, the incident involving the chinese vessel suggests this was done on purpose.

 

[SammyCheung]

if it was international waters why did they get angry and collide??

Because they're in China's EEZ gathering intelligence. Snooping around in other country's EEZ is aggressive behavior likely to draw a response.

 

[tharikiran]

Now, would the Chinese care to answer as to why they are complaining about with whom Indian navy does naval exercises ?

 

[LETHALFORCE]

Because they're in China's EEZ gathering intelligence. Snooping around in other country's EEZ is aggressive behavior likely to draw a response.

and China dosen't enter other nation's EEZ??

 

[SammyCheung]

China does not care who India has naval exercises with. Show me a report where the Chinese government criticizes this.

If China is snooping in other country's EEZ it's doing something aggressive. Given how aggressive both USA and Japan can be, China is just reacting in kind.

 

[Avinash R]

They were gathering intelligence SIGINT. Ships can pass through international waters, but if you gather intelligence in other country's EEZ they will get angry.

I doubt there are many takers to such simplistic explanation for an serious incident. Spying on each other is regularly done but damaging other nations naval vessels is NOT normal. Recently there is news that chinese spying is causing billions of dollars of loss to german firms. Now if germans starts physically attacking and damaging chinese firms and their properties will you keep quiet.

 

[tharikiran]

China does not care who India has naval exercises with. Show me a report where the Chinese government criticizes this.

If China is snooping in other country's EEZ it's doing something aggressive. Given how aggressive both USA and Japan can be, China is just reacting in kind.

Please do your homework first, then write on this forum.

Do some googlin. Go through this forum, you will find it.

 

[hit&run]

link witheld

Playing with fire; Asia, China’s Backyard?(

There are definite signals coming out of China that the period of late leader Deng Xiaoping’s direction “hide your strength, bide your time” is over, and the country’s economy, military and diplomacy is strong enough to show case its power projection capability. In early May, the Chinese Ambassador to the UK remarked to a group of university students that the international community recognized China was emerging as a world power, adding that people inside China, however, still recognize there were some weaknesses. What Ambassador Fu Ying conveyed was China will not stop here but pursue its power agenda till it becomes a super power like the USA, China has fixed US global power as its target, and is working towards it steadily.

In mid-April, the authentic Chinese Communist Party (CCP) controlled newspaper, the Global Times, commented that Asia was China’s “great backyard”. The commentary argued China must first dominate Asia and resolve major issues which could turn into “crises” and prevent them from reaching a point of explosion. Ignoring the Asian challenge could lead to its dislocation from the world order.

From 2004, when President and Party General Secretary Hu Jintao took over full powers, becoming the Chairman of the powerful Central Military Commission (CMC), there have been several characteristic shifts in China’s domestic and foreign policies. That, however, does not mean that he wields supreme power. Far from it. He failed to place his nominee, Li Keqiang as the fifth generation Party General Secretary. As things stand today, Li would have been satisfied as the Premier of the People’s Republic of China. Hu’s predecessor Jiang Zemin and his Shanghai group managed to place Xi Jiping, a revolutionary’s son, representing the more liberal group as the next Secretary General in 2013.

But Hu Jintao succeeded in using ultra-nationalism as an important tool in shaping an apparently new strategic policy. Starting from a somewhat weak controlling position of the People’s Liberation Army (PLA), he compromised with the PLA’s top hardliners to win them over. His initial projected theory of 2004 “Rise of China” drafted by his strategic advisor, gave the first insight into Hu’s strategic thinking.

The year 2004 may be a watershed year in China’s aggressive strategic vision in Asia. This vision envisaged a western line at the extremities of Asia in the west, to extreme geographic line of Asia Pacific region in the east, as China’s region of domination. The strategic debate argued that Deng Xiaoping’s strategic decision of 1991 had served its purpose, and China had achieved total power to establish its sphere of influence. That debate appears to have been co-opted in the country’s foreign policy, and is beginning to be shown to the world, particularly Asia, now. (Please see SAAG Paper No.3166, dated May 1, 2009 – China’s Asian Military Doctrine)

China is no longer shy to show a glimpse of its military power and capability and project it if need be, in the Asian theatre. There are two demonstrated examples of its capability. One is its determination not to allow even US naval ships to poach in the vicinity of its territorial waters. An US naval survey ship was sharked by Chinese vessels, eliciting a response from the US navy to send warships in the area. The other is to emphatically consolidate claims on sea area.

Following the Philippines and Malaysian actions to affirm their claims on small parts of the Spratly group of islands in the South China sea, the PLA navy has dispatched two ships to patrol the area. They have also contested Malaysian and Philippino claims at the UN on these parts of the Spratly group, and reiterated their sovereignty on the entire group of islands and their adjoining areas. The Chinese claims are based on highly questionable historical incidents which negate claims of other parties like Malaysia, the Philippines, Vietnam and Brunei, that are based on geographical realities recognized by the UN Laws of the Seas Convention.

China also claims sovereignty over the Senkaku (Diaoyu) Islands in the East China Sea currently occupied by Japan. Tension has flared up between the two countries several times over the past years. Recently, advanced Chinese monitoring capabilities apparently helped Chinese naval vessels to enter the Senkaku waters when they noticed the absence of Japanese patrols.

The South China Sea is reported to be rich in oil and gas resources. Equally important, it is the shortest route between the Pacific and Indian Oceans. The sovereignty over the Senkaku Islands, also reported to be rich in gas resources, would extend China’s waters closer to Japan, and into the Pacific. These are potential crisis points the Global Times commentary referred to. China has made these claims non-negotiable, and its earlier position of joint development in both areas with other claimants, but under the condition of recognizing Chinese sovereignty, was not really meant for implementation. This was a ploy to buy time, and project a benign and friendly face of China. Beijing is apparently showing its real face under the mask.

The next question raised by the Global Times commentary is managing relations with the smaller countries of Asia. Mismanagement with these relationships have the potential to disturb China’s relations with the United States and Europe. The Asia Pacific region is the cynosure of global focus of the 21st century, and the western nations and Japan. They are not going to sit by and watch an arrogant China riding rough shod over the South and East Asian arc. USA’s relations with Vietnam and the Philippines are witnessing a new development, and Malaysia sans Mahathir and the newly restructuring Indonesia may not be amenable to Beijing’s dictates if they have reliable support. The word “reliable” is the crux for South East Asian stability.

China’s show of military power began this year with the 2009 White Paper on Defence published on January 20, coinciding with US President Barak Obama’s inauguration. The time was not coincidental. Revealing very little but giving enough for experts to draw their conclusions, the White Paper made it clear that China’s military surge was now unstoppable. It also made it clear that informization of its armed forces and cyber warfare technology were battle ready.

Although the White Paper did not mention building aircraft carriers, soon signals came from Chinese military officials that a final decision to build carriers had been taken. According to available reports three aircraft carriers of 60 thousand dwt are on the anvil along with support ships. The first carrier group is expected to be afloat by 2015 if not earlier. They are expected to carry Russian Sukhois, probably Su-35.

The Chinese naval exposition of April 23-25, to which India, Pakistan, the US and Russia among others were invited made an impressive display. Two indigenously built nuclear submarines were on public show for the first time. But they did not show their best – Type 093 and Type 094 nuclear capable submarines.

An important omission from the invitees list to the naval expositions was Japan. This may have some historical hangover. In a naval battle in 1894 the Chinese navy was totally routed by the Japanese navy. But it has current connotations, too. Despite the huge trade between the two countries, political relations have gone cold under Taro Aso’s Prime Ministership of Japan.

China has officially announced an air force exposition around November 11, this year in which new aircraft, missile, radars and other indigenously built military arms and equipment will be displayed to selected invitees. This is expected to showcase the PLA Air Force’s (PLAAF) reach beyond the immediate coast, and will also leave observers to calculate how the air force can work in co-ordination with the navy in coastal defence and informationized short duration strikes in crisis points or “hot spots” in its neighbourhood.

In the second half of this year, China will hold a massive two-month long PLA exercise that will involve 50,000 troops from four Military Regions (MRs). The largest ever military exercise by China, the exercise will mobilize more than 60,000 vehicles and large weapons and equipments over a terrain that will cover 50 thousand kilometers, and one-way travel for some units will be more than 2,400 kilometers. The Lanzou MR from western China’s Xinjiang will meet up with Shenyang, Jinan and Guangzhou MRs on the seaboard. The exercise is likely to include the Air Force and Army Aviation units. It is notable that the Chengdu MR which is responsible for the Eastern Sector of the Sino-Indian border, and the Nanjing MR which covers Taiwan, have been excluded from Kuayue-2009 (Stride 2009) exercise. But we will have to watch the directions as the drill, which is to be conducted under real battle conditions with live ammunitions, fixes target. The parameter leaves no doubt that the initial targets are East China sea and the South China sea.

Apparently with fast improvement of basic relations with Taiwan under the KMT government led by Ma Ying-Jeo, China has redirected forces on the South China sea territories to exercise sovereignty over this vital sea route. This would have significant implication for global shipping, both commercial and naval.

But China’s muscle flexing has not gone unnoticed. Vietnam has reached an agreement in principle to acquire six Russian kilo-class submarines from Russia for $1.8 billion. Hanoi has also spent $3.8 billion for the procurement of 17 SU-27 and four SU-30 multi role aircraft. With Russian collaboration Vietnam is building 10 Russian type Molnia class missile boats, and Moscow will also supply two Gepard 3.9 class frigates to Vietnam. Vietnamese navy officers have for the first time visited a US aircraft carrier.

Australia’s Defence White Paper 2009, focused on the rise of Chinese military power and approved a special military budget of more than $ 70 billion in the next 20 years to augment its air and naval capability with state of the art arms and equipment. Australia, while underscoring its interest in the region including around Indonesia, also sees a potential face off between China and growing India.

Japan’s navy and air force are no light weights either. The Chinese navy is the largest in Asia in terms of tonnage, but in terms of quality Japan may be having an edge over them. Tokyo is also quietly raising its military might, expanding the area of its operation, and its enhanced military treaty with the USA at the beginning of this decade is no less a formidable defence arrangement for China to deal with.

China has instigated a major arms race in Asia and the Asia Pacific region. US Secretary of State Hillary Clinton recently declared in a pointed but unnamed message to China that the USA was both a trans Pacific and trans-Indian Ocean power and is not going to move out. China would also understand that Russia is an interested party in the region and has its own plans and strategies independent of China-US confrontation. Vietnam and the rest of old Indo-China have not been forgotten in the corridors of Moscow.

South Asia and India cannot remain unconcerned with these developments. Leaving aside Pakistan, China’s permanent and closest ally, the other countries in the region have been periodically trying to use China to counter India, without realizing the ultimate cost to themselves. The Maoists in Nepal have openly invited in Beijing to counter India, and statements from visiting Chinese leaders from Nepal’s soil have had a definite anti-India edge. The new government in Bangladesh under the Awami League has moved to a position of neutrality. In Sri Lanka, the Chinese have made large strides over the last few years, especially with the Mahinda Rajapaksa government.

In the sea-bordering countries of South Asia, China has been seeking strategic port facilities. It has built the Gwadar Deep Sea port in Pakistan at a cost of $2.2 billion. The Hambantota Port in Sri Lanka on the Indian Ocean Sea route is being built by China. President Rajapaksa comes from Hambantota. In Myanmar, the Chinese have Sittwe to Kunming and are building an oil and gas pipeline from South East China. A similar pipe line is to be built from Gwadar Port to Xinjiang. China has also been looking for a sea port facility in Bangladesh’s Chittagong area, to be connected with a link road through Myanmar to Kunming.

It is a fact that China is looking for security for its energy imports. Nobody can deny China having aircraft carriers for defence. But the strategic philosophy behind China’s military modernization has raised serious concerns all around. Beijing wants to establish its ownership in the near abroad, and overlordship over the Indian Ocean and Asia. It wants Asia as its backyard. This contains deadly ingredients for instability.

In this context, it would be pertinent what the Chief of US Pacific Command (PACOM) Admiral Timothy J. Keating told his Indian counterpart during a recent visit. Admiral Keating said a senior Chinese Admiral had informally suggested to him that the US allow the Chinese to keep the Indian Ocean, and the US keep the Pacific Ocean. Such off the record talks or problems by senior Chinese military officers are not idle talks. Such probes have generally proved to be correct in the past. Where does India stand?

Hindi chini bhai bhai(indian chines brother-brother):dk::twizt:

(The author is an eminent China analyst with many years of experience of study on the developments in China. He can be reached at [email protected])

 

[shotgunner]

and China dosen't enter other nation's EEZ??

China does, so is everybody, sail through EEZ's.

Let me understand your position better. Your point was patrolling by naval vessels in international waters along chinese coasts is "non of anybody's business". Right?

If yes then how do you defend the purposeful collison of chinese vessel with american naval ship which increased tensions in the region. Doesn't it contradict your claim?

BTW for clarity i am refering to this incident.
China-US Naval Incident Part of a Rising Trend - ABC News

Unlike the french-british incident were there was no malicious intent, the incident involving the chinese vessel suggests this was done on purpose.

There is no way I know for sure, I am noy insider, but I may concur with you on this being intended. My analysis is:

The law explicitly allows sailing through EEZ, for all ships whether military or civilian, without causing hazard. China determined that those US ships were aggressively collecting militray intel in the EEZ, so counter-measure (intended collision) were taken. If such measure did not work, the situation would probably be escalated but I would never know.

I was being sarcastic on the "non of anybody's business". EEZ is international water with limitations e.g. fishing, mining, sailing through. Military patrol, military recon & surveil, are not advised in EEZ of countries that do not have mutual military pact/treaty.

 

[Avinash R]

^Either you dont understand the seriousness of the incident of this magnitude or purposefully try to trivialise it. china which is a nuclear power should behave more responsibly militaryily when it encounters naval vessels of other countries, the foreign vessel may or may not be in violation of chinese maritime laws but the act of physically trying to damage the other vessel is childish to say the least and not in line with the behaviour of a country with aims to be a serious power in the international arena.

 

[shotgunner]

^Either you dont understand the seriousness of the incident of this magnitude or purposefully try to trivialise it. china which is a nuclear power should behave more responsibly militaryily when it encounters naval vessels of other countries, the foreign vessel may or may not be in violation of chinese maritime laws but the act of physically trying to damage the other vessel is childish to say the least and not in line with the behaviour of a country with aims to be a serious power in the international arena.

No, don't jump to conclude my understandings on this.

I absolutely support what my government has done, that is our common way of dealing with USA. Put the "country with aims to be a serious power in the international arena" aside because that is irrelavant to this.

Whenever US militarily provokes China, we have to respond with solid actions, at least an-eye-for-an-eye, or a multiple of this to actively escalate the matters. In this case, 1st, intended physical impact (USSR did exactly the same), 2nd escalate the situation e.g. capture, limited exchange of fire, full battle.

It happened so many times in our history. Just after WWII, in Korean War, Chinese stepped in when McArthur pushed NKA to Chinese border, and pushed US/SK back to 38-deg line; In Zhen Bao Dao, 1st fist fighting, then with club, then exchange of fire, then full battle with USSR; When US plane spied in Hainan Island, 1st interference by flying dangerously close, then capture, then fire; Vietname War I, China helped Vietcom on anti-air, 1st normal defence, then move forward to cut retreat routes, then direct attack on air-bases, ... It was no choice but to escalate the wars.

Nuclear or not it does not matter. If they bring things nuclear, let it be, no place to hide anyway. Death is glorious if cause is righteous, it is common in E Asian culture. If USA comes again, same treatment.

But we are amazing tolerant to other countries especially weak ones e.g. Philippines who practically only has a few boats. I think a good commander should be able to focus on his primary objective, and not be disturbed easily.

 

[IBM]

Well China still thinks India is still of 1962... well wake up [Mod Edit] Chinese drink Indian tea

 

[I-G]

Well China still thinks India is still of 1962... well wake up chinkis drink Indian tea

No China is aware that India is regional and global power ,tahts why using proxies against india .

 

[Avinash R]

I absolutely support what my government has done, that is our common way of dealing with USA. Put the "country with aims to be a serious power in the international arena" aside because that is irrelavant to this.

The "country with aims to be a serious power in the international arena" is an important point in the discussion but let's discuss that latter. First of all there is a big difference between supporting irresponsible behaviour of the navy and supporting your nation against foreign threats.

I would also have supported my country if foreign naval vessels accidentally intruded in our territory but i would not support the action of attacking without letting them know that they are in violation of our maritime laws and need to go back. But you are making a mistake by supporting the action of the chinese navy of damaging the other nations vessels. The incident could have been defused without restoring to violent means.

I would support conflict prevention and resolution actions rather conflict creating actions.

It happened so many times in our history. .....

You gave a big list of wars and warlike incidents which china was involved in but fail to see that this incident could have been easily defused with a little bit of talking to the other navy instead of damaging their sub.

Nuclear or not it does not matter. If they bring things nuclear, let it be, no place to hide anyway. Death is glorious if cause is righteous, it is common in E Asian culture. If USA comes again, same treatment.

Well death of millions becoz of turning of petty issue into large conflict is not glorious, it's useless waste of precious human lives. And i think koreans and japanese who are also part of the E Asian culture would rather try for conflict resolution rather than use aggressive behaviour as part of international diplomacy.

Here's where the "country with aims to be a serious power in the international arena" point becomes clear. Large nations like china are expected to behave responsibly when it comes using force. In international arena the image is that counts and by reckless use of force that image is tarnished. See how recent riots in china and excessive use of force lead to call by turkish leaders for boycott of chinese goods and protests all over the world.

 

[NikSha]

Any war with China will most like end up in a big mushroom cloud, win or loose, doesn't matter, the one on the loosing side will go out with a bang turning most of the enemy lands into nuclear wastelands.

So yeah, forget 2012, I would be surprised if Chinese grow a pair to attack India "directly" even by 2050.

 

[sayareakd]

with launch of ATV at present and weaponisation and full induction into service of atv and other atv, their wont be any chines attack by 2012, we might see some of kargil like small wars or skimishers.

Considering China is smart.

 

[SammyCheung]

ATV is a nice first step, but it's just a 60's era Soviet design submarine that Russian engineers taught the Indians how to build -- step by step like a teacher.

And on top of that it'll be at least three years before it enters service.