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I-G

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China to build world's largest amphibious aircraft

China to build world's largest amphibious aircraft

Zhuhai (Xinhua): China has given the go ahead to the development and production of the world's largest amphibious aircraft, the Dragon 600, the manufacturing company has said.

The aircraft, which would be as large as an Airbus 320, could be used for tasks such as emergency rescue, fighting forest fires and sea patrols, Hu Haiyin, deputy general manager of AVIC General Aircraft Company, said Wednesday.

Hu said that market research indicated a domestic market for 60 such craft in the next 15 years.

The research and design stage, which has already begun, would last for four years, with commercial production to begin in at least five years, Hu added.

The first construction phase is scheduled for completion in 2012 and the company plans to have 1,500 employees.

The Hindu News Update Service
 

Daredevil

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I don't understand why Chinese are obsessed with building everything 'Largest' in the world. Does this arise from some kind of insecurity? :p. Can they not build things of normal standard sizes?.
 

Antimony

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Largest has its uses, but I do think a Philosophy of use needs to be arrived at.

I am not sure if any of the intended uses mentioned (emergency rescue, fighting forest fires and sea patrols) call for amphibious craft of the order of an A320.

Maybe Badguy2000 can help us understand but I donot see much of him nowadays
 

venkat

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inheritance from their russian collaborators! Build every thing kingsize!
 

Singh

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Chinese ASBM Development: Knowns and Unknowns

China wants to achieve the ability, or at minimum the appearance of the ability, to prevent a U.S. carrier strike group (CSG) from intervening in the event of a future Taiwan Strait crisis. China may be closer than ever to achieving this capability with land-based anti-ship homing ballistic missiles. There have been many Western reports that China is developing an anti-ship ballistic missile (ASBM). Increasingly, technical and operationally-focused discussions are found in a widening array of Chinese sources, some authoritative. These factors suggest that China may be close to fielding, testing, or employing an ASBM—a weapon that no other country possesses. According to U.S. Government sources, Beijing is pursuing an ASBM based on its CSS-5/DF-21D solid propellant medium-range ballistic missile. The CSS-5’s 1,500 km+ range could hold ships at risk in a large maritime area—far beyond the Taiwan theatre into the Western Pacific [1]. Yet there remain considerable unknowns about China's ASBM capability, which could profoundly affect U.S. deterrence, military operations and the balance of power in the Western Pacific.

Taiwan as the Catalyst

For the past several decades, the U.S. Navy has used aircraft carriers to project power around the world, including in and around the Taiwan Strait. The deployment of the USS Nimitz and Independence carrier battle groups in response to China’s 1995-1996 missile tests and military exercises in the Taiwan Strait was a move that the People's Liberation Army (PLA) could not counter. The impetus behind Chinese efforts to develop ASBMs may be to prevent similar U.S. carrier operations in the future.

Keystone of ‘Anti-Access’ Strategy?

If fielded, the ASBM would be just one of the many new platforms and weapons systems that China has been buying and building since the 1995-1996 Taiwan Strait Crisis. These systems, collectively, will allow China to assert unprecedented control over its contested maritime periphery, in part by attempting to deny U.S. forces ‘access’ to critical areas in times of crisis or conflict. They do so by matching Chinese strengths with U.S. weaknesses, thereby placing U.S. platforms on the ‘wrong end of physics.’ An ASBM, however, stands above the quiet submarines, lethal anti-ship cruise missiles, and copious sea mines that China has been adding to its arsenal in its potential strategic impact on regional allies of the United States and U.S. interests in maintaining regional peace and security.

Firstly, the development of an ASBM would draw on over half a century of Chinese experience with ballistic missiles. Secondly, it would be fired from mobile, highly concealable land-based platforms. Thirdly, it would have the range to strike targets hundreds of kilometers from China’s shores. These factors suggest that China is likely to succeed in achieving a capability that is extremely difficult to counter and could impose ‘access denial’ in strategically vital sea areas well beyond its 200-nautical-mile Exclusive Economic Zone (EEZ).

U.S. Technological Influence?

The United States does not have an ASBM. It did have a distantly related capability, in the form of the Pershing II ground-to-ground theater-ballistic missile, but Washington relinquished this capability when it ratified the Intermediate-Range Nuclear Forces (INF) Treaty with Moscow in 1988. Interestingly, some Chinese sources state that previous advances in the now-abandoned Pershing II program inspired Chinese research and development relevant to an ASBM [2]. The Pershing II has adjustable second stage control fins for terminal maneuver. U.S. Government sources, and many Chinese sources, state that a Chinese ASBM would be based on the CSS-5. While positively identified photos of a CSS-5 outside its launch canister are not known to exist, at least one version of China’s related CSS-6/DF-15 missile has a reentry vehicle virtually identical in appearance to the Pershing II’s [3]. Based on this strong visual resemblance, it is possible that the CSS-6 employs terminal maneuvering technology similar to that of the Pershing II, and it is reasonable to assume that the CSS-5 does too. This is because the reentry vehicle that China obviously has could easily be mated with the CSS-5 booster, which might then produce an effective ASBM, assuming that its radar has the ability to track moving targets at sea.

Making an ASBM Work

Chinese schematic diagrams show an ASBM flight trajectory with mid-course and terminal guidance [4]. Second stage control fins would be critical to steering the ASBM through terminal maneuvers to evade countermeasures and home in on a moving target. This makes an ASBM different from most ballistic missiles, which have a fixed trajectory.

Yet how do Chinese experts envision the “kill chain”—the sequence of events that must occur for a missile to successfully engage and destroy or disable its target (e.g. an aircraft carrier)—beyond the five steps that they commonly list: 1) detection, 2) tracking, 3) penetration of target defenses, 4) hitting a moving target, and 5) causing sufficient damage? A single broken link would render an attack incomplete, and hence ineffective. What would work based on what is known about China's capabilities today, and in the future?

China has also been working on a sophisticated network of ground-and-space-based sensors, including over-the-horizon (OTH) radars and electronic signals detection equipment, which can assist ASBM detection and targeting [5]. While locating an aircraft carrier has been likened to finding a needle in a haystack, this particular needle has a large radar cross section, emits radio waves, and is surrounded by airplanes. Active radar is the most likely ASBM sensor, since its signals can penetrate through clouds. Simply looking for the biggest reflection will tend to locate the largest ship as a target, and the largest ship will usually be an aircraft carrier (if the pre-launch targeting was good).

And Proving that it is Workable

Critical questions remain with respect to missile sensors, however. Does China have multiple sensors that it is currently capable of applying to ASBM detection and targeting? Even in the absence of relevant space-based intelligence, surveillance and reconnaissance (ISR), is there another way to cue the missile accurately enough so that the possible parameters of where the carrier could move in the missile’s brief flight time can be accounted for within the “window” of its seeker? As for the seeker, how would it work? How would it accomplish target discrimination? Is this a challenging issue? Does it hinge on the large size of a carrier? Could smaller ships also be targeted effectively?

What do Chinese experts fear could go wrong, and perhaps even render an ASBM unusable? Missile defense? Other things? Considerable Chinese research on irregular (“wavy”) ASBM/ballistic missile trajectories and penetration aids (PENAIDS) to defeat missile defense suggests that this is an area of ongoing concern.

With respect to testing, what would be the bare minimum necessary to make the PLA feel that it had some rudimentary operational capability—and hence, perhaps, some deterrence ability? Are there any testing/targeting plans? Demonstration plans? What is the target audience (domestic/foreign public vs. PLA/foreign military’s eyes only)? The U.S./Taiwan/Japanese military, public, or all of the above?

The Service in Charge

The Second Artillery, China’s strategic rocket force, already responsible for China’s land-based nuclear and conventional missiles (the latter since 1993), would likely control any ASBMs that China develops. Relatively small, technologically-focused and extremely secretive, the service is ideally suited to such a mission. It has been studying the ASBM issue for some time, having published what appears to be a conceptual feasibility study in 2003, and a major doctrinal publication the following year [6].

This still leaves critical questions of joint operations, and bureaucratic coordination, however. How are sensors prioritized and coordinated? Which organization(s) control which sensors (e.g. OTH radar), and how are they used? Is there a risk of seams between services (e.g. Second Artillery, Navy, etc.)? What about problems with bureaucratic “stovepipes,” particularly during general wartime crisis management? How to overlap areas of “uncertainty” from different sensors, and thereby accomplish data/sensor fusion? How to accomplish bureaucratic “data fusion”—a task beyond even the most competent engineers? Finally, which authorities would need to be in the decision-making loop, and what are the time-to-launch implications?

Doctrinal Guidance

How does the second artillery conceive of using ASBMs in operational scenarios? The service’s authoritative high-level handbook, Science of Second Artillery Campaigns, describes in some detail the use of ASBMs against carriers. It in no way suggests that such an approach is merely aspirational or beset with insurmountable technical difficulties. In fact, in introducing the section describing their potential employment, it states that “conventional missile strike groups” should be used as an “assassin’s mace” (silver bullet), a term commonly used to describe weapons that match Chinese strengths against an enemy’s weaknesses.

According to its handbook, the Second Artillery is thinking seriously about at least five ways to use ASBMs against U.S. CSGs, at least at the conceptual level:

• “Firepower harassment [strikes]” (huoli xirao) involve hitting carrier strike groups.

• “Frontal firepower deterrence” (qianfang huoli shezu) involves firing intimidation salvos in front of a carrier strike group “to serve as a warning.”

• “Flank firepower expulsion” (yice huoli qugan) combines interception of a carrier strike group by Chinese naval forces with intimidation salvos designed to direct it away from the areas where China feels most threatened.

• “Concentrated fire assault” (jihuo tuji) involves striking the enemy’s core carrier as with a ‘heavy hammer.’

• “Information assault” (xinxi gongji) entails attacking the carrier strike group’s command and control system electromagnetically to disable it [7].
All this does not mean that China necessarily has an ASBM capability already, but it strongly suggests that related research and development has high-level approval from China’s military and civilian leadership.

Concept of Operations?

The above document offers general insights into the Second Artillery’s conception of conventional deterrence. It adds that the Second Artillery will work with the PLAN to “execute focused naval blockades” and “achieve command of the seas.” Approaching enemy CSGs are envisioned to be the principal maritime targets, but “large vessels or large ship formations” more broadly are mentioned as well. Coordination and precision are seen as essential for “deterring and blocking enemy carrier strike groups”; such “operational activities need to be coordinated without the slightest difference in time.” Coordination with the PLAN is also emphasized in the location of sea targets, as well as with regard to the notification and demarcation of blockade areas: “the naval intelligence department should 'relay promptly' the information obtained by its reconnaissance about enemy ship activities to the Second Artillery campaign large formation.” In particular, “information regarding carrier battle groups … should be gathered on a real time basis.” Potential sources of “real-time target intelligence” include “military reconnaissance satellites, domestic and foreign remote sensing satellites, and established satellite reconnaissance target image information processing systems.”

Still, this leaves critical questions unanswered concerning how the PLA might envision the basing location, number, employment, and strategic effects of any ASBMs:

• Base of operations. Where would the ASBMs themselves be based? What would be the expected range from the target?


• Nature of arsenal. What would be the relative size of the ASBM inventory? Size might have implications for operational possibilities and willingness to expend ASBMs in conflict.

• Concept of operations. It is one thing to call for ASBM capabilities, but how would they be realized in practice? What would an ASBM firing doctrine look like, and what would be the objective? Target destruction or mission kill (the equivalent of ‘slashing the tires’ on carrier aircraft)? What to shoot at, and when? Would the PLA fire on a carrier if it knew the planes were off of it? Would it rely on a first strike? Would the PLA plan to fire one ASBM, several, or a large salvo? If a salvo, then some combination of saturation (many shots in the same space, to overload missile defense), precision (firing many shots in a pattern to compensate for locating error on the target and to get the CSG in the seeker window of at least one of the missiles), or both? What type of warhead: unitary, EMP, or sub-munitions? How might salvo attacks, or multi-axis attack coordination, be envisioned? Do Chinese planners think that the Second Artillery could handle the mission by itself, or would it be part of a high-low, time-on-target attack with both ASBMs and cruise missiles?


• Concept of deterrence. Deterrence would seem to be a clear purpose of any ASBM development, but what does one have to show to deter? PLA doctrinal publications mention firing ‘warning shots’ in front of carriers—how does the Second Artillery think the United States would respond? How would the United States know it was a warning shot and not just a miss? What if the United States did know and called China’s bluff? Finally, from a technical perspective, how to actually fire a warning shot and miss by an intentional margin (versus having the seeker home in on the actual target)?
Conclusion

From Chinese sources, it can be inferred that Chinese leaders seek not to attack the United States, but to deter it. They want to defend what they perceive to be their state’s core territorial interests and to ensure a stable environment for domestic economic development. If they develop an ASBM, they would likely hope that it could prevent U.S. projection of military power in ways that are inimical to China’s security interests, which appear to be expanding beyond the First Island Chain. Yet the strength of Chinese equities, combined with vital U.S. interests in East Asia, make ASBM development for this purpose a complex and risky proposition. Should Beijing pursue such a course to its logical conclusion—a demonstrated ASBM capability—only robust strategic dialogue could hope to alleviate the substantial tensions that are certain to ensue. Until Beijing is willing to discuss in detail its progress and intentions in this area, however, it will be essential to search for answers to the questions outlined above—not just for a select group of government bureaucrats and the leaders they advise, but also for the publics in Taiwan, Japan, and the United States, who fund military development and who must ultimately live with its consequences. Regional peace and stability, and mutual strategic trust, demand no less.

single - The Jamestown Foundation[tt_news]=35171&tx_ttnews[backPid]=7&cHash=3ac55b5a15

 

LETHALFORCE

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This missile is useless against US submarines, if one was fired at a carrier, they can expect a nuclear strike in retaliation
 

hbogyt

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A nuclear strike now is plausible but unlikely. I personally think this option would be off the table by the next presidential election in Taiwan.
 
S

SammyCheung

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The nuclear option was rendered impossible by the introduction of DF-31A (2006), which can reach NY and DC. And of course it's mobile launcher and highly survivable.

But even before that (1999), the DF-31 could at least help deter, since it could reach LA. It's also mobile and highly survivable.

Before that even (80's), the DF-5 would provide a minimal deterrent, since it could reach continental US. But these are liquid launchers and not very survivable.

Let's not forget China is a long-established nuclear power that had design of W-88 by early 90's.
 

LETHALFORCE

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Using a weapon like this is an invitation to use greater force in response which may not have been used otherwise.
 
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SammyCheung

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Not really. Total nuclear attack is out of the question, since we have DF-31A.

Limited nuclear attack against military installations is possible, but then PLA responds against bases in Asia.

Air strike or missile attack is impossible, we have too many SAM and radars.

But US controls blue waters very well. It's the green waters that are contested by PLA.
 

Dark Sorrow

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What about CEP? Even GPS aided guidence a bomb suffers CEP about 5 meters to 500 meters. Even a 10 m of CEP is enough to miss a carrier.
What will be the guidence mechanism used at terminal stage?
 

LETHALFORCE

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Not really. Total nuclear attack is out of the question, since we have DF-31A.

Limited nuclear attack against military installations is possible, but then PLA responds against bases in Asia.

Air strike or missile attack is impossible, we have too many SAM and radars.

But US controls blue waters very well. It's the green waters that are contested by PLA.
Anywhere from 12 to 24 US submarines may be roaming the Pacific at any given time, some OHIO class subs so questioning what USA can do is a very ignorant thing, why don't you try shooting one of these at a US carrier and discover what USA will do.
 
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John

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true any direct attack on carrier will result in a immediate nuke weapons launch protocol and in less than 10 mins Beijing becomes a wasteland for the next 10000years. stop dreaming, war with US is war to the end. One Ohio sub can level china. 24 missiles with 8 warheads each that's 192 warheads per sub, good bye china. The fact is the Chinese Navy cant even deploy its SSBNs without being detected, US carefully watches all Chinese subs movements, they will see the Chinese navy coming from a long long way off. The next gen P-8 will hunt down Chinese subs as soon as they leave territorial waters.
 

Yusuf

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First thing, the US has the Aegis armed destroyers for Ballistic missiles. Second it would make sense to have cruise missiles for ships than ballistic. It doesn't make sense to use ballistic which will be tracked by various tracking systems.

Any talk of use of nukes in the event of a Chinese attack on US carriers doesn't cut ice. MAD will take care of that. Besides in the event of war with the Chinese will be well within their rights to do what ever damage they can inflict on the US and the US will to what it can. But it will not turn nuclear. Just like no war between India or China will, or India Pakistan.
 

LETHALFORCE

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yusuf even the conventional strikes can be deadly, 24 hour around the clock B-1 and B-2 bomber strikes for example,chinese are asking for trouble when they create a weapon like this they should be prepared for all different scenarios.
 

Yusuf

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In a war scenario, the Chinese will be prepared for punishment. But then no one can discount the same from their side. Why should someone lose sleep over Chinese development of anti ship ballistic missile, when a far more potent threat is there in the form of DF 31s and the world is living with it.
 
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SammyCheung

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Anywhere from 12 to 24 US submarines may be roaming the Pacific at any given time, some OHIO class subs so questioning what USA can do is a very ignorant thing, why don't you try shooting one of these at a US carrier and discover what USA will do.
I don't think you understand. China has a ... robust ... second strike ability in the DF-31A and the SLBM.

true any direct attack on carrier will result in a immediate nuke weapons launch protocol and in less than 10 mins Beijing becomes a wasteland for the next 10000years. stop dreaming, war with US is war to the end. One Ohio sub can level china. 24 missiles with 8 warheads each that's 192 warheads per sub, good bye china. The fact is the Chinese Navy cant even deploy its SSBNs without being detected, US carefully watches all Chinese subs movements, they will see the Chinese navy coming from a long long way off. The next gen P-8 will hunt down Chinese subs as soon as they leave territorial waters.
Well... China has been aware of the above problems since the 90's and shall we say it has... altered ... the strategic situation somewhat in its favor.

About subs...even 688's should be very wary of encountering some of the latest PLAN subs. Still not up to level of Seawolf and Virginia though.

First thing, the US has the Aegis armed destroyers for Ballistic missiles. Second it would make sense to have cruise missiles for ships than ballistic. It doesn't make sense to use ballistic which will be tracked by various tracking systems.

Any talk of use of nukes in the event of a Chinese attack on US carriers doesn't cut ice. MAD will take care of that. Besides in the event of war with the Chinese will be well within their rights to do what ever damage they can inflict on the US and the US will to what it can. But it will not turn nuclear. Just like no war between India or China will, or India Pakistan.
I'm not going to go into the details of what a technically feasible "anti-ballistic missile" system can and cannot do for your sake. Suffice to say that China's MRBM based ASBM are for multiple reasons not the kind of targets current SM-3 ABM is designed for.

yusuf even the conventional strikes can be deadly, 24 hour around the clock B-1 and B-2 bomber strikes for example,chinese are asking for trouble when they create a weapon like this they should be prepared for all different scenarios.
I really don't think you understand. Stuff like you described were our strategic concerns back in the 90's. Now we've long moved onto power projection.
 

LETHALFORCE

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I don't think you understand. China has a ... robust ... second strike ability in the DF-31A and the SLBM.



Well... China has been aware of the above problems since the 90's and shall we say it has... altered ... the strategic situation somewhat in its favor.

About subs...even 688's should be very wary of encountering some of the latest PLAN subs. Still not up to level of Seawolf and Virginia though.



I'm not going to go into the details of what a technically feasible "anti-ballistic missile" system can and cannot do for your sake. Suffice to say that China's MRBM based ASBM are for multiple reasons not the kind of targets current SM-3 ABM is designed for.



I really don't think you understand. Stuff like you described were our strategic concerns back in the 90's. Now we've long moved onto power projection.
then why don't you post what you can do conventionally instead of blowing hot air power projection, and specifically against a US led onslaught. what can the system do against an SLBM with decoys coming in at MACH 25?
 

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