China Economy: News & Discussion

[KurtisBrian]

Nice propaganda bot. Won’t work.

propaganda serves no reason unless the Chinese and their Catholic/Tyrol/Israeli allies are trying to attract something.

People are not moving to China, unlike how they moved to the Americas (USA). China is NOT the next big thing. Has little water, degraded environment. Toxic mess. Traitor Chinese, like all traitorous thieves desperate to move to the lands of others.
Nobody moved to Japan...it was not the next big thing. Rather a way to slowly exterminate a people.
China is not a pot where different peoples can live together. A Babylon. Babylon 5 or 6 will not be found in China, nor will it be found in India or Vietnam.
Dream seems to be dead, we are woke. We can feel how toxic our enemies and the areas they occupy are. How can hatred and war not consume the world?

That’s the Chinese illusion.

It isn't China's illusion. Every nation is running the scam. Scam doesn't work with woke people. Why serve a thief?

 

[NutCracker]

Read this excellent article to understand why China can never be a supply chain power. Their contribution to high value supply chains is very, very low. They now have to spend hundreds of billions in R&D to get anywhere close to US technology, with no guarantees as to whether they will succeed. That is the big, risky R&D investments that the west did to get where it is.
Claiming dominance in low value, cheap manufacturing is all China can do. Once India gets to a significant share of this, the game is on.

The resilience myth: Fatal flaws in the push to secure chip supply chains

From China to the U.S. to Europe, semiconductor makers are being showered with subsidies, but to what effect?

asia.nikkei.com

apart from display tech China is miles behind from western tech.
Camera and display part might be only made in China, rest they depend on S.E.A for semiconductor chips.

They imported 300 Billion dollars of Semiconductor. including processor and NAND flash memory.

This YMTC funded by notorious Tshingua group .. same group tried to peddle shitty UNISOC processor. and I guess even declared itself bankrupt.

The nation this year is expected to import about $300 billion worth of semiconductors, a dollar figure that’s even larger than China’s oil imports.

China’s YMTC is Poised to Lead in NAND Flash Technology - EE Times Asia

China’s YMTC aims to lead competitors like Samsung and Micron in NAND flash technology and will very likely license its knowhow to rivals in the next few years, claimed YMTC’s former chairman...

www.eetasia.com

 

[RoaringTigerHiddenDragon]

Why don't you relax a bit yourself and stop throwing around names.
I was talking from my pov, of course I don't know the 100% 360° scenario but from my own understanding.

The reality is somewhere in between but we have a long way to go. We've just started on production of electronic hardware and I'm not someone who starts screaming from the rooftops unless I achieve something first.

Its like preparing to be an certified professional and start acting like one before clearing any stage.

Also I'm talking from totally economic perspective, not human rights or legal. Obviously it gives China a advantage being a totalitarian regime.

1. What do you think is the reality, given what we know about the credibility of the CCP - the only investor in the world who has invested billions to run all kinds of propaganda around the world, buying media, owning western publications, setting up Confucius institutes and police stations to spy on overseas Chinese, etc?
2. What do you think about the CCP’s refusal to provide market access to Indian goods despite massive demand for Indian goods there? This is economics.
3. What do you think about the bots here doing information warfare, as deadly as what the criminal PLA did to Indian soldiers?


Contrary to all the supply chain supa powa claims, it is conclusively shown that 90% of surplus is from low value manufacturing which has profit margins less than 3%. That is they sell $100, they can make only $3 or less. So, even a trillion dollars in surplus gives the Chinese companies only $30 billion in profits. And 70-80% of those profits belong to the CCP in one way or another, leaving the MSME owners in a precarious state. Documentaries have recorded the precarious state of business owners in the CCP goon land, where mafia companies selling fake goods is huge business. 90% of fake goods in the world comes from China.

Given all of the above, the wages are going up only to cover inflation. There is no REAL wage growth. That is the obfuscation behind CCP economics. And this is exactly why 60-70% of Chinese are trapped in low living conditions with no real wage growth. Their only ticket out of misery - appreciation in real estate assets has been destroyed by the CCP. The suicide rates in CCPia have surged and a huge majority of young people are jobless or refused to work (laying flat movement) as there is no REAL growth in income or wealth to be motivated to work. The CCP further has reduced the deposit savings rate in banks to less than inflation, meaning older people or savers get negative real interest rate on their savings.

So, let’s see: no real wage growth, no real savings income, no real property appreciation, high suicide rates, jobless youth, millionaires relocating to Singapore, the US squeeze on China’s high value manufacturing supply chains, food insecurity from devastating droughts, many southern China rivers and lakes drying up due to climate change, northern China starved of water, massive money laundering via Macao, HK stripped of special global financial center status, wars and disputes with all neighbors, Japan back to becoming a military superpower, Australian Navy with SSBNs and SSNs now, India on road to becoming a large weapons exporter, China + 1 becoming real, aging population thanks to one child policy, dozens of large companies going bankrupt, almost all local governments are at the brink of bankruptcy due to massive debt, and now mass devastation caused by Wuhan virus due to stupid lockdown policies and poor investments in healthcare R&D. Still think the investors are going to put money into the CCP? CCP economy has become very risky today to invest in - human rights or not. I think they are trapped and will become poorer in real terms as every day goes by.

 

[NutCracker]

I don't know where you are quoting your figures from but from what I've heard wages have gone up. Now comparison to cost of living should be done in tandem to understand if the worker is better off now.

ChinaInsight.. it might be in your subscribe list.

Its not 60% but 600M.

@RoaringTigerHiddenDragon

 

[Varzone]

ChinaInsight.. it might be in your subscribe list.

Its not 60% but 600M.

@RoaringTigerHiddenDragon
View attachment 189560

Yeah i am subscriber since long time but I'm saying that there has been wage growth. Being below $150 or not is another matter.

Also, we should be discussing wages in a particular industry and not comparing with average wage of the country.

It's also true that Mexico has lower wages than China. However Mexico also has higher productivity of labour than China so it disproves @SexyChineseLady post that only they have automated machines and rest of the world doesn't.

 

[RoaringTigerHiddenDragon]

The land of CCP utopia has one of the highest suicide rates in the world:

China's suicide rate 'among highest in world'

Suicide is the biggest killer among Chinese aged 15 to 34. -AFP

www.asiaone.com

Moreover what is going to be devastating for the Chinese is suicides are maximum in the 15-34 age group, the most productive working age. Every 2 minutes, 1 person in China commits suicide. The glorious trade surplus - all bow down to it. Lol.

 

[Varzone]

1. What do you think is the reality, given what we know about the credibility of the CCP - the only investor in the world who has invested billions to run all kinds of propaganda around the world, buying media, owning western publications, setting up Confucius institutes and police stations to spy on overseas Chinese, etc?
2. What do you think about the CCP’s refusal to provide market access to Indian goods despite massive demand for Indian goods there? This is economics.
3. What do you think about the bots here doing information warfare, as deadly as what the criminal PLA did to Indian soldiers?


Contrary to all the supply chain supa powa claims, it is conclusively shown that 90% of surplus is from low value manufacturing which has profit margins less than 3%. That is they sell $100, they can make only $3 or less. So, even a trillion dollars in surplus gives the Chinese companies only $30 billion in profits. And 70-80% of those profits belong to the CCP in one way or another, leaving the MSME owners in a precarious state. Documentaries have recorded the precarious state of business owners in the CCP goon land, where mafia companies selling fake goods is huge business. 90% of fake goods in the world comes from China.

Given all of the above, the wages are going up only to cover inflation. There is no REAL wage growth. That is the obfuscation behind CCP economics. And this is exactly why 60-70% of Chinese are trapped in low living conditions with no real wage growth. Their only ticket out of misery - appreciation in real estate assets has been destroyed by the CCP. The suicide rates in CCPia have surged and a huge majority of young people are jobless or refused to work (laying flat movement) as there is no REAL growth in income or wealth to be motivated to work. The CCP further has reduced the deposit savings rate in banks to less than inflation, meaning older people or savers get negative real interest rate on their savings.

So, let’s see: no real wage growth, no real savings income, no real property appreciation, high suicide rates, jobless youth, millionaires relocating to Singapore, the US squeeze on China’s high value manufacturing supply chains, food insecurity from devastating droughts, many southern China rivers and lakes drying up due to climate change, northern China starved of water, massive money laundering via Macao, HK stripped of special global financial center status, wars and disputes with all neighbors, Japan back to becoming a military superpower, Australian Navy with SSBNs and SSNs now, India on road to becoming a large weapons exporter, China + 1 becoming real, aging population thanks to one child policy, dozens of large companies going bankrupt, almost all local governments are at the brink of bankruptcy due to massive debt, and now mass devastation caused by Wuhan virus due to stupid lockdown policies and poor investments in healthcare R&D. Still think the investors are going to put money into the CCP? CCP economy has become very risky today to invest in - human rights or not. I think they are trapped and will become poorer in real terms as every day goes by.

All I know is the trade surplus of China is nothing to scoff at.

Another thing is that producing low quality mass production might gain you for eg. $1 per unit but if your scale is as huge as China then it will accumulate to hundreds of billions of dollars. Of course it is also exaggerated that China only has low quality merchandise to sell and has very very low value added manufacturing.


This kind of high tech only job creation is a view of Neo liberal economist like Raghu Ram Rajan whose views i don't subscribe to neither should any Indian who knows employment of masses should be #1 priority.

 

[RoaringTigerHiddenDragon]

All I know is the trade surplus of China is nothing to scoff at.

Another thing is that producing low quality mass production might gain you for eg. $1 per unit but if your scale is as huge as China then it will accumulate to hundreds of billions of dollars. Of course it is also exaggerated that China only has low quality merchandise to sell and has very very low value added manufacturing.


This kind of high tech only job creation is a view of Neo liberal economist like Raghu Ram Rajan whose views i don't subscribe to neither should any Indian who knows employment of masses should be #1 priority.

I am not against low value manufacturing. It is healthy for bringing people out of mass poverty. But the growth must be REAL incomes. The CCP’s hyperinflation of real estate - shitty, unfinished apartments were asking insane prices in ghost towns and even tier 2 grade towns means 65 million empty apartments. That is NOT real growth in prosperity for the average citizen. India must never follow that model. Once living costs become out of the reach of the majority, it doesn’t matter what your gdp output and trade surplus is, no average citizen is going to give a shot about those and there will be riots and suicides all over, like happening in China now. Never give headline numbers like gdp, trade surplus much importance. Dig deeper.

 

[Varzone]

I am not against low value manufacturing. It is healthy for bringing people out of mass poverty. But the growth must be REAL incomes. The CCP’s hyperinflation of real estate - shitty, unfinished apartments were asking insane prices in ghost towns and even tier 2 grade towns means 65 million empty apartments. That is NOT real growth in prosperity for the average citizen. India must never follow that model. Once living costs become out of the reach of the majority, it doesn’t matter what your gdp output and trade surplus is, no average citizen is going to give a shot about those and there will be riots and suicides all over, like happening in China now. Never give headline numbers like gdp, trade surplus much importance. Dig deeper.

Yeah you are making a broader point. China could've managed it.

The real gauge of wealth of a citizen becomes more curious when you take into account that Chinese don't actually own their land forever but lease it. Indians don't have that problem and it's even more skewed since most of Chinese wealth is real estate.

 

[SexyChineseLady]

Yeah i am subscriber since long time but I'm saying that there has been wage growth. Being below $150 or not is another matter.

Also, we should be discussing wages in a particular industry and not comparing with average wage of the country.

It's also true that Mexico has lower wages than China. However Mexico also has higher productivity of labour than China so it disproves @SexyChineseLady post that only they have automated machines and rest of the world doesn't.

Mexico has a higher productivity overall than China but so does the US, Western Europe and many of the countries in South America.

Why? Because they are not communist

Communism makes adjustments for the social good that depresses productivity like creating excess jobs in SOEs and agriculture to provide for a safety net and then lending those state-run enterprises low return-loans.

But since all those countries have higher productivity than China and since higher productivity can make things cheaper per volume while employing fewer high salaried employees then why go to China in the first place?

Because overall productivity does not reflect the productivity in individual industries and in China the components sectors for manufactured good operate under market conditions not communism. If you break out the productivity of the workers in the electronics, EVs, shipbuilding and other industries, they would be much higher than the national average.

Then there is the internal market. You need to create a certain volume in order for your greater productivity to take effect. You can have great productivity but if you have only a small market, you will never get to a scale that will cover your costs at a lower price point.

Again:

1) in manufacturing sectors, China's productivity is much higher because of market forces

2) volume from internal market allows far greater economy of scale even if productivity is less.

And 3) China is automating its production lines more than anyone -- half of all industrial robots are in China alone:

Almost Half of Industrial Robots Are in China

mobile.engineering.com

 

[RoaringTigerHiddenDragon]

Yeah you are making a broader point. China could've managed it.

The real gauge of wealth of a citizen becomes more curious when you take into account that Chinese don't actually own their land forever but lease it. Indians don't have that problem and it's even more skewed since most of Chinese wealth is real estate.

Plus the mass manufacturing as a way out of poverty is overhyped. The reality is only the top bosses of a few companies like Foxconn make all the money. The peasants get nothing. They don’t even get proper bathroom breaks.
I would rather india get mass service jobs in here. The world is aging and healthcare for older patients is becoming multi trillion dollar industry and very expensive. India can be a massive healthcare services destination with millions of higher paying jobs. India has the talent, the infrastructure , a complete pharmacy supply chain, and the hospitality culture that zombie Chinese have been deprived from by the CCP. Plus the inbound travel leads to massive regular tourism as well.
We should promote mass services jobs as well. much safer for the environment and not subject to global business risks from mass manufacturing that the Chinese are now facing. Plus the wage growth is real as people need healthcare forever.

 

[RoaringTigerHiddenDragon]

Mexico has a higher productivity overall than China but so does the US, Western Europe and many of the countries in South America.

Why? Because they are not communist

Communism makes adjustments for the social good that depresses productivity like creating excess jobs in SOEs and agriculture to provide for a safety net and then lending those state-run enterprises low return-loans.

But since all those countries have higher productivity than China and since higher productivity can make things cheaper per volume while employing fewer high salaried employees then why go to China in the first place?

Because overall productivity does not reflect the productivity in individual industries and in China the components sectors for manufactured good operate under market conditions not communism. If you break out the productivity of the workers in the electronics, EVs, shipbuilding and other industries, they would be much higher than the national average.

Then there is the internal market. You need to create a certain volume in order for your greater productivity to take effect. You can have great productivity but if you have only a small market, you will never get to a scale that will cover your costs at a lower price point.

Again:

1) in manufacturing sectors, China's productivity is much higher because of market forces

2) volume from internal market allows far greater economy of scale even if productivity is less.

And 3) China is automating its production lines more than anyone -- half of all industrial robots are in China alone:

Almost Half of Industrial Robots Are in China

mobile.engineering.com

Companies go to China because of low costs which are only possible in a human rights deprived country with hundreds of millions of zombies. The rest of your commie propaganda straight from the little red book are laughable. It is funny how you continue to underestimate the IQ of people on this forum. Lol.

 

[ym888]

Yeah you are making a broader point. China could've managed it.

The real gauge of wealth of a citizen becomes more curious when you take into account that Chinese don't actually own their land forever but lease it. Indians don't have that problem and it's even more skewed since most of Chinese wealth is real estate.

The vast majority of land leases in Hong Kong expire in 2047,



But Hong Kong's property prices have been at the top of the world



Don't worry about multimillionaires

 

[ym888]

The land of CCP utopia has one of the highest suicide rates in the world:

China's suicide rate 'among highest in world'

Suicide is the biggest killer among Chinese aged 15 to 34. -AFP

www.asiaone.com

Moreover what is going to be devastating for the Chinese is suicides are maximum in the 15-34 age group, the most productive working age. Every 2 minutes, 1 person in China commits suicide. The glorious trade surplus - all bow down to it. Lol.

According to WHO data, as of 2016, the suicide rate in China was 8.2 per 100,000 people [2]. By comparison, the suicide rate in the United States was 15.3 per 100,000 people in the same year [2]. Overall, China's suicide rate is lower than that of neighboring Japan and South Korea,

 

[ym888]

Back from the edge

The first of two articles on China’s suicide rate looks at the effect of urbanisation

www.economist.com

Back from the edge
The first of two articles on China’s suicide rate looks at the effect of urbanisation

Jun 28th 2014 | BEIJING
Share
IN THE 1990s China had one of the highest suicide rates in the world. Young rural women in particular were killing themselves at an alarming rate. In recent years, however, China’s suicides have declined to among the lowest rates in the world.
In 2002 the Lancet, a British medical journal, said there were 23.2 suicides per 100,000 people annually from 1995 to 1999. This year a report by a group of researchers from the University of Hong Kong found that had declined to an average annual rate of 9.8 per 100,000 for the years 2009-11, a 58% drop.


---------------------

A very good research paper,



Economic development has saved rural women



Thank you Mr. Deng

 

[KurtisBrian]

Yeah you are making a broader point. China could've managed it.

The real gauge of wealth of a citizen becomes more curious when you take into account that Chinese don't actually own their land forever but lease it. Indians don't have that problem and it's even more skewed since most of Chinese wealth is real estate.

no it isn't. Chinese wealth is all those stolen factories and technologies. Chinese had buildings and land in the past yet China was dirt poor.

Without those factories and tech China returns to poverty. the UK, US and Japan are good examples. How wealthy was Japan before industrialization? UK and US were the richest. Each had much of the world's industry and tech output in their time. They spent that wealth on infrastructure and weapons. Both just an expense.

Proof that weaposn, buildings and other infrastructure are an expense? Try maintaining tens of thousands of rail way lines or buildings when the nation no longer has massive inflows of capital thanks to output of factories and tech. oh look at the USSR for that.

 

[ym888]

no it isn't. Chinese wealth is all those stolen factories and technologies. Chinese had buildings and land in the past yet China was dirt poor.

Without those factories and tech China returns to poverty. the UK, US and Japan are good examples. How wealthy was Japan before industrialization? UK and US were the richest. Each had much of the world's industry and tech output in their time. They spent that wealth on infrastructure and weapons. Both just an expense.

Proof that weaposn, buildings and other infrastructure are an expense? Try maintaining tens of thousands of rail way lines or buildings when the nation no longer has massive inflows of capital thanks to output of factories and tech.

You're right.



There are very cheap houses in China as well as in the United States



Housing prices correspond to development opportunities

 

[Cheepek]

The land of CCP utopia has one of the highest suicide rates in the world:

China's suicide rate 'among highest in world'

Suicide is the biggest killer among Chinese aged 15 to 34. -AFP

www.asiaone.com

Moreover what is going to be devastating for the Chinese is suicides are maximum in the 15-34 age group, the most productive working age. Every 2 minutes, 1 person in China commits suicide. The glorious trade surplus - all bow down to it. Lol.

Damn, no wonder there are nets everywhere!

China's suicide rate 'among highest in world'

A person tries to kill themselves in China every two minutes, the government and state media said Thursday, giving the country one of the highest suicide rates in the world.

medicalxpress.com

 

[ym888]

 

[jai jaganath]

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Wait 2022 rnd% was 0.7%
I think it's not right
Pls look into it