China Economy: News & Discussion

tony4562

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10 years ago perhaps 1 percent of all families in my hometown had a car, now it's like 1 out of every 3 families has at least 1 car, and practically all my friends and all relatives of my generation are now behind the wheel. That's what you call change. The town itself which by the way is a 2-tier city in China, has expanded by perhaps 10 folds. Narrow alleys packed with bicycles, a common sight 20 years ago, are now replaced with raised-beltways packed with car. And they are now building 3 metro lines simultaneusly. It is projected by 2020 there will be 8 lines in operation totaling 200 km in length.

Any western comfort or luxury goods you want to have, ranging from designer shoes to super cars, from swiss chocolates to french wines, from McDonald's to Starbucks, you can find in my hometown. There are in fact more internationally recognized brand shops present in my hometown now than there are in many large european cities or even capitals. There are more than 20 5-star hotels in the city and in the adjacent counties. Yet my hometown is a tier-2 city, perhaps the only 6th largest in the shanghai area. Things that are happening in my hometown are happening all across China.
 

badguy2000

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Thats too much of data and I may not be able to collate them at once.
In my/your fathers time Black and white TV was a luxury and now that's been replaced by LCD . percentage of salary spend on items like this will almost be same. All I am trying to saya that unless you are doing exceedingly well or getting your salary in Dollars standard of living will be more or less the same . salaries are increasing but at same time value of money is also depreciating.
In mainland CHina, it was in 1980s that Black nd white TV became affordable to CHinese common . In fact, my family bought the first black&white TV set in 1983. At that time , the Black&white TVset cost 4month salary of my parents.

It was in 1990s that color TV sets,electric refrigerator and Air conditioner became affordable to Chinese common. My parent bought the first color TV set in 1994,after the black&white TV set had been used for 10 years.

During 2000-2005, cellphones and PC became popular Chinese common families . I bought my first cell phone in 2001 and first PC in 2004.

After 2005,cars rushed into Chinese families and eletr-bikes take the place of motorbikes rapidly.
 
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amoy

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Maybe we have a lot to learn from Japan (which mirrors China), where my brothers studied and lived for many years.

* Japan is also an export oriented economy, but with a much 'smaller' domestic market potential compared to China

* Simliar to what Yuan is facing now Yen was forced to appreciate greatly decades ago. But very quickly her export recovered.

* Japan has kept her interest rate very low. Instead of inflation Japan has had a 'deflation' and staggering growth for many years.

* Japanese population is ageing...
 

badguy2000

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Thats too much of data and I may not be able to collate them at once.
In my/your fathers time Black and white TV was a luxury and now that's been replaced by LCD . percentage of salary spend on items like this will almost be same. All I am trying to saya that unless you are doing exceedingly well or getting your salary in Dollars standard of living will be more or less the same . salaries are increasing but at same time value of money is also depreciating.
in the city, as for the salary, I maybe belong to upper-middle class. However when total asset is concerned, I absolutely belong to lower-middle class.
 

kickok1975

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in the city, as for the salary, I maybe belong to upper-middle class. However when total asset is concerned, I absolutely belong to lower-middle class.
LOL, badguy2000, you are humble. I think you should live a comfortable life in Ganzhou by your income since its a tier 3~4 city. Anyway, how about post some pictures of your city here?
 

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I've heard Ganzhou is a very beautiful city. I think all middle tier cities have their own unique charm. I miss that in the cumbersome metro cities.

sorry for going off the topic :)
 

badguy2000

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LOL, badguy2000, you are humble. I think you should live a comfortable life in Ganzhou by your income since its a tier 3~4 city. Anyway, how about post some pictures of your city here?
guy,now I am a house slave..besides, I have to save some money for the coming wedding and car.

anyhow, I am one poor guy who is struggling for a better future during such blundering and rapidly changed era.

Sometimes, I just felt that the country is developing so fast that I even can not catch up with quickly changed life rhythm....I just felt deeply depressed by it!

Espeically when I read the video "old boys", I feel so uneasy and moved that I couldn't keep my tears back.

http://v.youku.com/v_show/id_XMjE4MDU1MDE2.html
 
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badguy2000

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the short video "old boys"(老男孩)reflects exactly how rapid change of CHina impacts on the mentality and life of CHinese who were born during 1975-1985.

the short video costs only 700K RMB,but attracted millions of clicks after it was posted on Nover,26th,2010.

Now ,it is still most hottest video in PRC cyberworld.
[video]http://player.youku.com/player.php/sid/XMjE4MzIzNDE2/v.swf[/video]

那是我日夜思念深深爱着的人呐 I am deep in love with her, thinking of her day and night


  到底我该如何表达 But how can I express myself


  她会接受我吗 And will she accept me


  也许永远都不会跟她说出那句话 Maybe I'll never expose my heart to her


  注定我要浪迹天涯 For I am always wondering about alone and homeless


  怎么能有牵挂 How can I be on tenterhooks


  梦想总是遥不可及 Dreams are but dreams


  是不是应该放弃 Maybe I should give up


  花开花落又是一季 Flowers bloom and fade again and again


  春天啊你在哪里 But where is the spring for me


  青春如同奔流的江河 Youth like a swift current


  一去不回来不及道别 Rushing by without saying good-bye


ã€€ã€€åªå‰©ä¸‹éº»æœ¨çš„æˆ‘æ²¡æœ‰äº†å½“å¹´çš„çƒ­è¡   ? ? Leaving me behind, numb cold spent


  看那漫天飘零的花朵 A beautiful flower faded, at its prime time in spring


  在最美丽的时刻凋谢 At its prime time in spring


  有谁会记得这世界她来过But who cares if it ever lived in this world


  转眼过去多年时间 Many years have elapsed in a brink of the eye


  多少离合悲欢 Witnessing unions and departures, joys and sorrows


  曾经志在四方少年 The wondering boy envies the wild goose


  羡慕南飞的雁 That flies to his home in the south before winter comes


  各自奔前程的身影匆匆渐行渐远 People go in different directions, away and gone


  未来在哪里平凡 But where is my future, just simple, ordinary days for me


  啊谁给我答案 Oh, who can give me the answer


ã€€ã€€é‚£æ—¶é™ªä¼´æˆ‘çš„äººå•Šä½ ä»¬å¦‚ä»Šåœ¨ä½•æ–   ? ? Where are you, the girl who used to sit by my side


ã€€ã€€æˆ‘æ›¾ç»çˆ±è¿‡çš„äººå•ŠçŽ°åœ¨æ˜¯ä»€ä¹ˆæ¨¡æ    ? ? Are you still beautiful and lovely, as the girl in my memory


  当初的愿望实现了吗 Have you realized your dreams


  事到如今只好祭奠吗 Maybe we'll let bygones be bygones


ã€€ã€€ä»»å²æœˆé£Žå¹²ç†æƒ³å†ä¹Ÿæ‰¾ä¸å›žçœŸçš„æˆ   ? ? However hard I may try, I cannot find my true self


  抬头仰望这满天星河 A million stars are twinkling in the sky, and I try to find out the one


  那时候陪伴我的那颗 That used to stay by me, oh my dear companion of yesterday


  这里的故事你是否还记得 Do you still remember the time we shared together


  生活像一把无情刻刀 Life, like a sculptor's graver, cold and ruthless


  改变了我们模样 has changed our shape


  未曾绽放就要枯萎吗 Will the flower wither before it ever has a chance to bloom


  我有过梦想 But I used to have my dream


  青春如同奔流的江河 Youth like a swift current


  一去不回来不及道别 rushing by without saying goodbye


ã€€ã€€åªå‰©ä¸‹éº»æœ¨çš„æˆ‘æ²¡æœ‰äº†å½“å¹´çš„çƒ­è¡   ? ? Leaving me behind, numb, cold, spent


  看那漫天飘零的花朵 A beautiful flower faded


  在最美丽的时刻凋谢 At its prime time in spring


  有谁会记得这世界她曾经来过But who cares if it ever lived in this world


  当初的愿望实现了吗 Have you realized your dreams


  事到如今只好祭奠吗 Maybe we'll let bygones be bygones


ã€€ã€€ä»»å²æœˆé£Žå¹²ç†æƒ³å†ä¹Ÿæ‰¾ä¸å›žçœŸçš„æˆ   ? ? However hard I may try, I cannot find my true self


  抬头仰望这满天星河 A million stars are twinkling in the sky, and I try to find out the one


  那时候陪伴我的那颗 That used to stay by me, oh my dear companion of yesterday


  这里的故事你是否还记得 Do you still remember the happening here before


  如果有明天祝福你亲爱的 If tomorrow ever comes, I'll send my best wishes to you, my dear girl
 
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badguy2000

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LOL, badguy2000, you are humble. I think you should live a comfortable life in Ganzhou by your income since its a tier 3~4 city. Anyway, how about post some pictures of your city here?
the house price here is already 6000-8000 Yuan/ Per square....guy,life is not easy here!
 

Ray

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China Expands Its Influence in Europe


China is seizing on Europe's debt problems to expand its influence on the continent with large-scale investments and purchases of government bonds issued by highly-indebted states. The strategy could push Europe into the same financial dependency on China that is posing a dilemma for the US.

Portugal's cavalry staged a magnificent parade to welcome Chinese President and Party General Secretary Hu Jintao, 67. Suddenly, one of the horses reared up and threw its rider to the ground. The state guest from China waited motionless until the end of the ceremony before he went to the fallen cavalryman, embraced him, and asked if he was all right.

There was symbolic value to Hu's caring gesture in early November in Lisbon: China's foremost party organ, the People's Daily, wrote enthusiastically that this was the "Best moment for the world to see a true China in flesh and blood."

Given the acute debt crisis in the euro zone, there is a wealth of opportunities for China to show sympathy in Europe these days. With pledges of financial aid and statements of support for the euro, Beijing is endeavoring to stabilize its largest trading partner -- primarily in pursuit of Chinese interests.

Even before his arrival in Lisbon, many in Portugal were yearning for Hu to come to the rescue. In view of the alarming Portuguese government debt, the Chinese leader promised that he would support the country with "concrete measures." He said China intended to double bilateral trade by 2015.

This wasn't exactly what the cash-strapped Portuguese were hoping to hear. They wanted Hu to also help out by buying government bonds. Nonetheless, before his visit, Chinese Vice Foreign Minister Fu Ying had already hinted that this was a definite possibility.

Offers of Aid for Troubled Euro Members

Indeed, the rising superpower is cleverly capitalizing on the euro crisis to extend its long-term political and economic influence in Europe. Chinese offers of aid are mainly directed at the shakiest members of the euro zone, the heavily indebted so-called PIIGS countries (Portugal, Ireland, Italy, Greece and Spain). The People's Republic would like to win them over as long-term allies in the EU.

In the past, China had shown itself to be a "friend" of Greece, Spain and Italy, and it purchased their government bonds at a time when other investors had fled, Premier Wen Jiabao said during a trip to Europe in October. "We will continue to provide aid and help certain countries overcome their difficulties."

Speaking to the parliament in Athens, Wen made a promise to the Greeks. He said that China would purchase Greece's government bonds as soon as they were available again on the financial markets. These were only words, but the jittery markets saw them as a vote of confidence in the euro: They were spoken by the man who helps decide how China invests the largest currency reserves in the world.

China has amassed some $2.5 trillion (€1.9 trillion), and an estimated 70 percent of this has been invested in dollar-based holdings. But the rulers in Beijing are observing with growing concern how their largest debtor country, the US, continues to drive down the value of the dollar with its lax monetary policy.

Switch in Strategy

This has recently prompted the Chinese to increasingly invest their reserve stockpile in non-dollar currencies. One of the leading proponents of this diversification is Yu Yongding, an influential economist and former advisor to the central bank, the People's Bank of China. Yu is known as "the dollar killer" in Beijing. Although he admits that other currencies "are not necessarily an ideal replacement" for US government bonds, Yu says that this will allow the People's Republic to minimize its losses should the US currency dramatically drop in value.

Last July, China spent €400 million on Spanish 10-year government bonds. During a visit to Beijing in September, Spanish Prime Minister José Luis Rodríguez Zapatero dutifully thanked the Chinese: When China increases its share of Spanish government bonds, he said, it bolsters confidence in the financial markets. He added that he hoped China would purchase even more Spanish government bonds.

The cash-strapped southern Europeans are increasingly looking to Beijing to solve their budget woes. But it is difficult to ascertain which countries are being supported by the Chinese state capitalists through government bond purchases.

The investment managers at the State Administration of Foreign Exchange (SAFE) devise their strategies behind the walls of a nondescript large office building in Beijing. They rarely make public statements. Formally, the SAFE answers to the central bank. Last year, People's Bank of China governor Zhou Xiaochuan, 62, caused an international stir when he proposed replacing the dollar with a super-sovereign reserve currency based on the Special Drawing Right (SDR), the IMF's unit of account. This proposal came from the upper echelons of the Chinese leadership: Zhou, a member of the Central Committee, strictly adheres to the instructions of the Communist Party.

It's a similar story with the state-run Chinese Investment Corporation (CIC), which manages some $200 billion of the currency stockpile, with assets in foreign equity funds, mining operations and corporations.

When it was founded three years ago, the CIC was eyed with great suspicion by Europeans. "EU officials came to me and asked me to commit that my investment will not exceed 10 percent," CIC manager Lou Jiwei said last year with undisguised sarcasm. "I said that's fine, then I'm not going."

Times have changed. These days, the Chinese rarely encounter resistance like they have faced in Hamburg, where they tried in vain to purchase a stake in the city's port. Across large swathes of Europe, they are now welcomed with open arms.

Greece a Bridgehead for Chinese Trade With Eastern Europe

The People's Republic has primarily set its sights on Greece as a bridgehead for its trade with Eastern Europe. Even before the current debt crisis, Chinese state-owned shipping giant Cosco signed a deal to lease port facilities in Piraeus for 35 years. By 2015, China intends to increase the annual transshipment of containers from the current 800,000 to 3.7 million, Premier Wen announced.

In the Irish town of Athlone, Chinese investors are considering building a gigantic conference and exhibition center for their export industry. From Beijing's perspective, one of the advantages of this location is that Ireland is the only English-speaking country in the euro zone. In Portugal, energy giant China Power International is looking to buy a stake in local provider EDP; both companies want to collaborate to produce renewable energy in Europe, Africa and Brazil.

And in Italy, Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi even had the Colosseum in Rome bathed in red light for Wen -- and ordered the Chinese characters for "Sino-Italian friendship" projected onto the façade. Wen also promised the Italians that he would double the annual value of trade with them by the year 2015.

By pledging to help the debt-stricken PIIGS countries, China is ultimately boosting its own industry. Beijing also expects the Europeans to be more compliant on the political front: At a summit of EU representatives in Brussels in October, Wen rejected demands to devalue the Chinese currency. China maintains an artificially low exchange rate for the yuan, also known as the renminbi. This allows the Chinese to keep their exports cheap -- including to countries in the euro zone.

During a brief visit with German Chancellor Angela Merkel, Wen secured support for a matter that he had unsuccessfully raised for years: Merkel promised that she would support China's desire to be recognized as a market economy by the EU within five years. This would make it difficult for the EU to slap anti-dumping duties on inexpensive goods from China or denounce the country on charges of forced technology transfer.

The more EU countries become financially dependent on China, the greater the risk that they will end up facing the same dilemma that America has in its dealings with China. "How do you deal toughly with your banker?" US Secretary of State Hillary Clinton wrote, according to US diplomatic cables leaked to Wikileaks.

Beijing is still discussing how much money it actually intends to invest in government bonds from PIIGS countries. The bonds are "far too risky," warns economist Yi Xianrong from the Beijing Academy for Social Sciences, the government think tank. "As long as the EU has not resolved its internal contradictions, China would be better off not buying any government bonds there."

It is only when conducting a "political bargain," says Yi, that it would be clever for China to acquire euro bonds, "but only a few." Minimal investment, maximum influence -- that's been Beijing's strategy with Europe.

Translated from the German by Paul Cohen

Der Spiegel
It is important to note China's 'humane' attitude towards cash strapped economies.

They offer increased trade, which assist it boosting their economy, rather than any concrete assistance. Sniffing for a gain even from a distressed people!!

It is interesting to note how by buying government bonds, which Yi says is risky, they are aiming to divide the western world from the US.

As I always say, do not look at China superficially.

Behind every move, couched with poetic thoughts and language, is a dragon ready to devour all!
 
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badguy2000

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well, CHina is to increase the salary of retired people by a margin of 10%.
 

Armand2REP

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well, CHina is to increase the salary of retired people by a margin of 10%.
So the SOE pension is going from 1000 RMB to 1100? Big deal. You need to pay those poor farmers living off 300 RMB. They are so poor they cannot afford bread and rice. A 1100 rmb pension is just enough to eat and or pay the rent. Sorry affair when they have to choose which.
 

JustForLaughs

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PRC is like 60 years old after civil war and world war. pointing there are poor people does what. China already has a middle class larger than France's population. well, no doubt if China just surrendered maybe China would have taken less damage in war.
 

Armand2REP

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PRC is like 60 years old after civil war and world war. pointing there are poor people does what. China already has a middle class larger than France's population. well, no doubt if China just surrendered maybe China would have taken less damage in war.
They have a larger middle class yet France's little population consumes more than the entire 1.3 billion of them. If you are using WWII as a crutch I suggest you look at Japan, totally devastated and transformed in a couple decades. After 65 years China has yet to achieve what they did in 25.
 

badguy2000

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So the SOE pension is going from 1000 RMB to 1100? Big deal. You need to pay those poor farmers living off 300 RMB. They are so poor they cannot afford bread and rice. A 1100 rmb pension is just enough to eat and or pay the rent. Sorry affair when they have to choose which.
hehe, after the adjustment, the avereag month income of retired people will be about 1400 RMB( about 220 USD).. it is still limited,but a limited increase is better than the big cut in west countries.

that is why west guys are on strike,instead of Chinese ones.

BTW, such a limited increase covers all retired people. it is not only SOE pension...
 
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badguy2000

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They have a larger middle class yet France's little population consumes more than the entire 1.3 billion of them. If you are using WWII as a crutch I suggest you look at Japan, totally devastated and transformed in a couple decades. After 65 years China has yet to achieve what they did in 25.
can you tell me which items Frenchmen comsume more than CHinese ?
steel? concrete?PC? food? concrete? Tv sets? Air conditioners? cars? or electrcities?

China consumes one half of steel ,concrete in the world. it also comsumes more food,TV sets,AC and cars than the whole EU combined.

it is more fair to compare 60M-populationed France with one CHinese province such as Guangdong or Jiangsu.

the exchange rate and poor statistic distorts the data. west guys like you are obvioulsy very satisfied with the distorted data and ignore the poor reality that you have to go on strike for the big cut of penions and social welfare ,because west countries become the losers of globalization.
 
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JustForLaughs

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They have a larger middle class yet France's little population consumes more than the entire 1.3 billion of them. If you are using WWII as a crutch I suggest you look at Japan, totally devastated and transformed in a couple decades. After 65 years China has yet to achieve what they did in 25.
consumes more what. cheese?

crutch? facts are not crutches. kinda like how Japan modernized far before any other east asian country. totally devastated? majority of fighting was not even on Japan's land. i cant believe French had all that free time to read what was going on and still get things confused.

even funnier, as for development. 2 of the asian tigers (developing AFTER Japan) already surpass Japan in gdp per capita. Singapore and Hong Kong regularly top the list of practically every financial ranking they are in.

after around 60 years China is right after Japan in GDP, number of millionaires and patent filings and now 2nd in R&D spending. not to mention olympics and Shanghai, China's debut in PISA. thats economics, sports and education. yea Japan has some things they are still ahead. Japan isnt creating their own GPS system either.
 
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Daredevil

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People's republics

There are growing doubts over the sustainability of China's authoritarian model of development and greater recent praise for India's democratic version. In October, US President Barack Obama's economic adviser Larry Summers told a meeting of business leaders in Mumbai that the world in 2040 would be talking, not about a Washington or Beijing consensus, but a 'Mumbai Consensus' on economic development in the future. Chinese Premier Wen Jiabao did not go as far as Summers in elevating the Indian approach above China's. But the premier ended his three-day visit to India last week by declaring that India's rise had enhanced the confidence and strength of all developing countries.

Despite praise for both systems, the common wisdom is that the Chinese approach is superior to the Indian one in one respect: poverty reduction. After all, in 1980, around 80% of people in both countries lived in poverty. In India, it is now around 22% compared to about 12% in China. The assumption is that China's State-led authoritarian model, although more menacing than India's chaotic democracy, allow its leaders to plan China's rise in a more ordered and manageable environment, to the ultimate benefit of its poor. But such an argument is less compelling than it would first appear when we take a closer look at what actually occurred since China began its reforms in December 1978.

Because China has been growing at almost 10% since 1980 (except for the 'Tiananmen Interlude' period from 1989-1992), the assumption is that the country has followed one model towards prosperity and poverty alleviation. In fact, China has actually gone through two significantly distinct reform periods.

The first was from 1979 until the Tiananmen protests in 1989. After the disasters of centralised Maoism, Deng Xiaoping did two big things. First, power was decentralised and local officials were given much more power to make economic decisions. Second, the four-fifths of the population who were peasants were allowed to use their land in any way they wanted and sell their products at market prices.

This so-called 'household responsibility' structure gave rise to millions of 'township and village enterprises' (TVE) — small-scale industries that began the industrialisation and urbanisation process. These TVEs were technically owned by the local collective but many were run like private industries. In Deng's words, this was a "completely unplanned, spontaneous revolution that took us by surprise."

But it worked. Eighty percent of the poverty reduction that occurred in China took place from 1979-1989. It had little to do with any authoritarian model or supposed authoritarian qualities, or the far-sighted long-term planning and wise counsel of Chinese Communist Party (CCP) leaders. Significantly, it was actually about the CCP relinquishing economic and social control over the country.

During this period, the de facto private sector received about three-quarters of all the country's capital in the first 10 years of reform – the reverse of what is happening today. There was no discrimination against the private sector in favour of the State-controlled one; meaning that household incomes across-the-board were rising with the tide. It was a genuine bottom-up rather than the present top-down approach.

Following the countrywide protests that almost brought down the regime, the CCP deliberately retook control of the economy from the mid-1990s onwards: favouring the State-controlled sector over the private one in key economic areas in order to prevent the emergence of an independent economic middle class. Although GDP has continued to expand at an impressive pace, household incomes have been growing at a paltry 1-3% each year even as profits in the State-controlled sector expand by 15-20% per annum. Significantly, since the rise of 'authoritarian development' in China, poverty reduction advanced by approximately 1.5% each year,meaning that China has underperformed vis-a-vis India since the latter began reforms in the early 1990s. Indeed, given the State-controlled bias that accelerated from this century onwards, poverty alleviation has remain stagnant and some studies even suggest that absolute poverty in China has actually increased.

Compared to the Indian bottom-up approach which is driven by the private sector and domestic consumption, China's top-down State-led model has created a country of some 150-200 million 'insiders' who benefit disproportionately from the fruits of economic growth. While measurements of income inequality have remained fairly constant even as India rises, Chinese society has become the most unequal in all of Asia. Although far from being a tranquil society, India does not have anywhere near the reported 124,000 instances of 'mass unrest' that occurred in China in 2009.

Even if Premier Wen and Prime Minister Singh would want to deny it, the Chinese and Indian approaches to economic development and poverty alleviation are being watched and compared by the 150 undeveloped and developing countries. Larry Summers might have been flattering his hosts in preparation for Obama's visit to India which took place in November. But the weaknesses of the Beijing Consensus mean that we will be hearing much more about the Mumbai Consensus in the years to come.

John Lee is director, Foreign Policy, Centre for Independent Studies, Sydney. The views expressed by the author are personal.
 

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