Ignorance is a bliss.
partially true.without any independent engine development,chinese aircraft will be preferred only when there is no other option.ex
akistan
Chinese ignorance and pride are rediculous.
OMG you are judging where ppl are from by the flags they display in an internet forum? Jeeez, just when I thought it is not possible to be more ignorant, you proved me wrong......Chinese ignorance and pride are rediculous.
Russians have granted a reexport permission for RD-33/RD-93 engines because they (engines) don't contain any crucial or secret technologies (dislike AL-31 ones) and outstanding capabilities. So JF-17 will be exported with no restrictions. This export even will support RD-33 manufacturers for some time.
Now tell us what "secrets and outstanding capabilities" there is on Al-31 that does not exist on RD-33.
JH-7 is powered by obsoleted RR Spey derived engines, so they are not a problem for Russia.
But AL-31 is forbidden to reexport. If Chinese will even try to sell AL-31 to 3-rd parties, they will be left without crucial spares for PLAAF or their price will be raisen to the skies to boot the contract breakers to theirs place.
Facts are bitches, my Chinese friends
But instead of reading at least Wiki: like this (but Janes is much better) you have shown yourself as nervous schoolboy which argues with diplomed engineer adult.
I have all the logic necessary. If China will resell those engines, it will not share aftermarket profits with Russia. This is bad move. Also China will sell engines (and fighters which they power) to the countries, which are in the Russias black list. Look at the political situation in the Middle East and Africa and you will see all the reasons (if you want to, but you don't, you want just puke, not think).
Read a quote above. BTW, China want to sell fighters and engines for them independently from the Russian political interests. China constantly tries to copy-paste engine technologies illegally. Those reasons are enough to sell advanced engines to China with restriction for internal use only.
Post #85 proves nothing except you have complete mess in your head, kid.
Just a typo. I was talking about JH-7A. Guess what? I made the same typo again when I typed it, was more aware.
I think both single role and multirole have their advantages. Meaning, with a multirole aircraft, the pilot is well versed in both A2A and A2G. So he can be moved around the battlefield very quickly depending on situation and in a more tactical environment he can be used in a swing role depending on payload. That's one reason why every major air field in India will be MKI friendly. So squadrons can be moved immediately and thrust into any situation very quickly. It is more expensive on a per plane and per pilot basis, but overall there is more efficiency during wartime.
Hmm, so export approvals may be some years away for the J-10B. Then there's the question of the success of WS-10 also.
1 - AL-31 (especially F-M1/2 and 117 series) has much more efficient design (which leads to greater specific thrust, fuel efficiency and controllability in harsh and difficult running modes such as high AOA, boundary flow sucked into the intake and others, in which RD-33 become very difficult controllable).
And of course RD-33 lacks modern design features like FADEC, BLISK compressor wheels, 2100K+ materials and several others which make AL-31 outstanding. AL-31 has constantly been modernised and overhauled from version to version while RD-33 has left in the early 80-s by its tech level and technical data. Alsough AL-31 allows a fighters to have greater combat ranges due to greater fuel efficiency, while RD-33 powered fighters have 250 km intercept radius with one supersonic leap on the route.
And another one "feature" of AL-31 which RD-33 lack: it can be a powerplant for heavy fighters.
2 - Yeah, RR engines are leaps, but allof them are in the past. Only Trent has left on the level, but it is not a fighter engine.
As for Spey... @ice berg, are you a real moroon, or just kidding me? Spey was designed in 1955 and first flown in 1964 as civillian engine. The only countries where Spey has left in the air are Brasilia/Italia with AMX (civillian non-afterburned engine) and China which gather foreign old leaps being unable to make its own ones.
You should more read but less write to avoid so visible self-crapping mistakes like the following:
But instead of reading at least Wiki: like this (but Janes is much better) you have shown yourself as nervous schoolboy which argues with diplomed engineer adult.
Yes, Spey is not Russian engine. So, if you'll spread your narrow eyes wider and reread my original post, you will see that I have said that it is NOT Russian and is not Russias property or problem. You can sell this obsoletion to anybody who want to buy it
I have all the logic necessary. If China will resell those engines, it will not share aftermarket profits with Russia. This is bad move. Also China will sell engines (and fighters which they power) to the countries, which are in the Russias black list. Look at the political situation in the Middle East and Africa and you will see all the reasons (if you want to, but you don't, you want just puke, not think).
Read a quote above. BTW, China want to sell fighters and engines for them independently from the Russian political interests. China constantly tries to copy-paste engine technologies illegally. Those reasons are enough to sell advanced engines to China with restriction for internal use only.
Post #85 proves nothing except you have complete mess in your head, kid.
K-8 - Ukrainian AI-25TL (aged non-Russian non-fighter engine)
Hongdu L-15 - Ukrainian AI-222-25 (not Russian, aging non-fighter engine)
Jf-17 - Export approved obsoleted RD-93
Where are AL-31 or the other 12-tonns class engine powered plane among them?
Go read some real books, not Chinese fans forums before you start argue with adults.
And, BTW, we are talking about J-10 with AL-31FN, not about trainers or light fighters. So, read the discussion first.
How does it deny the fact that it is obsoleted? Why to speak about it if we speak about J-10 with AL-31? How does JH-7 production approve your crap about AL-31 and J-10? Does it match the topic at all?
Oh yeah, you've got it on the 3-rd day of discussion, congratulations! So why do you speak about JF-17 with RD-33 in the post #85? What does it approve? China has exported trainers? My greetings to you. But how does it approve your meaning that China can export J-10?
Thank you, Captain Obvious! If you'll read my posts in Su-35 and Fighters technology Evolution themes, you'll see that I've wrote exactly the same. It is clear like crystal.
It proves nothing.
You should really listen to your own advice. It is obvious that facts are alien to you.
With the J10B deal with Pakistan fallen through, will the J10B even exist?
I've enlisted it as an example of what China CAN export without a hassle.
1 - There will be no deals about AL-31 reexport. The reasons are simple:
AL-31 is the large engines family. AL-31FN is a variant of the basic early AL-31F with bottom gearbox for J-10. Embarasing to forget it for "adult" forum member.
Serious weapons and technology exports are the political driving and political affecting process. It's not bying and selling Chinese down jackets on the local junk market. You cannot buy everything you want just because you have enough money. If you want to buy some sensitive things (and 12-15 tons-class engines are the sensitive ones), you must be ready to comply a seller-established restrictions and terms.
This is complete crap. You have provided the list of weak, second-line weapons, which export is not interest to Russia and powered by non-Russian engines. If would you put J-11 or the other AL-31 powered fighter in the list, that will be a proper proof. But you haven't. Just saying nothing trainers and light fighter which technologies and parts access is granted or omitted.
1 - WS-10 is AL-31F copy with some local changes.
It definetly will exist as technology testbed, airshows and propaganda product and product for limited internal usage.
First, there is no such thing as J-11A equiped with WS-10 as it was license produced Su-27.
It is impossible. Simply AL-31F and WS-10A are 2 different engines, you can't replace one with another without making significant change of the existing plane structure. The expense of such change won't be much less than building a new plane.
Once agin, WS-10 has never been equiped on J-11. And where is your source of all these trials failures?
That is funny. WS-10A/B is still in the progress. WS-15, the next generation engine for J-20 already started before 2004 and now you claim they are all failed. And the latest project of engine developement is up to 2030, where did you get this 2035 programme?
Again, where is your source. What is the code of this modern engine in your claim, which is supposed to equipe in 2035 or later?
I'm curious why you question the existance of J10B project. maybe due to some media?..LOL ,you'd better identify carefully..no reliable source in China would say that J10B was a Export project like FC-1...this is a PLAAF approved and funded further development of J10 project... it has been 5 years hard test flights since the maiden flight, this bird is going to commission soon...LOL, I would keep it updated here...as I said, the SP batch is in test fight now...
I can't understand why someone could Blah,BLah so much...I would avoid talking about those I can't get first hand info...
If you are talking about PAF, then it is highly unlikely they will get anything concrete done before the decade ends with J-10B. For J-10A, they need Russian approval for the Chinese to re-export the engine. The Russians don't plan on allowing re-export of the AL-31. It will open up an unnecessary competitor if they want to sell Mig-35s, Su-35s and even MKIs.
