Chengdu J-10 'Vigorous Dragon'

gadeshi

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They have lied.

China will be capable of J-10 (or anything other except for JH-7) foreign sales only when they will master their own independent engine production.
 

ice berg

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They have lied.

China will be capable of J-10 (or anything other except for JH-7) foreign sales only when they will master their own independent engine production.
Ignorance is a bliss.
If they can export Jf17( not JH-7 which is a fighter-bomb) with russian engines, they certainly wont have a problem export J10.

It is posters like you who cant spend 5 sec to learn the difference between JH-7 and Jf17 that brings down the quality levels here.
 
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drkrn

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They have lied.

China will be capable of J-10 (or anything other except for JH-7) foreign sales only when they will master their own independent engine production.
partially true.without any independent engine development,chinese aircraft will be preferred only when there is no other option.ex:pakistan
 

gadeshi

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Ignorance is a bliss.
If they can export Jf17( not JH-7 which is a fighter-bomb) with russian engines, they certainly wont have a problem export J10.
It is posters like you who cant spend 5 sec to learn the difference between JH-7 and Jf17 that brings down the quality levels here.
Chinese ignorance and pride are rediculous.

Russians have granted a reexport permission for RD-33/RD-93 engines because they (engines) don't contain any crucial or secret technologies (dislike AL-31 ones) and outstanding capabilities. So JF-17 will be exported with no restrictions. This export even will support RD-33 manufacturers for some time.

JH-7 is powered by obsoleted RR Spey derived engines, so they are not a problem for Russia.

But AL-31 is forbidden to reexport. If Chinese will even try to sell AL-31 to 3-rd parties, they will be left without crucial spares for PLAAF or their price will be raisen to the skies to boot the contract breakers to theirs place.

Facts are bitches, my Chinese friends :p
 

ice berg

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Chinese ignorance and pride are rediculous.


Russians have granted a reexport permission for RD-33/RD-93 engines because they (engines) don't contain any crucial or secret technologies (dislike AL-31 ones) and outstanding capabilities. So JF-17 will be exported with no restrictions. This export even will support RD-33 manufacturers for some time.
Now tell us what "secrets and outstanding capabilities" there is on Al-31 that does not exist on RD-33. :rofl:

JH-7 is powered by obsoleted RR Spey derived engines, so they are not a problem for Russia.
The RR engines is leaps and bounds ahead of crap russian ones. And it got nothing to do with Russia at all. Never take a basic course in logics? It is not a Russian engine. The polar bear has zip to say about this. Russian pride and ignorance are ridiculous.
But AL-31 is forbidden to reexport. If Chinese will even try to sell AL-31 to 3-rd parties, they will be left without crucial spares for PLAAF or their price will be raisen to the skies to boot the contract breakers to theirs place.

ROFL, if Russia are willing to sell AL-31 to China, why would they say no to other countries? Your lack of logic are amazing. Why will China want to sell the engines to other countries? It is Russian engines. It is up to the russians who they want to sell to, just like the export of RD-33 were approved by russians.
Facts are bitches, my Chinese friends :p
OMG you are judging where ppl are from by the flags they display in an internet forum? Jeeez, just when I thought it is not possible to be more ignorant, you proved me wrong......
Facts are bitches, kid, as post # 85 proved your ignorance.
 

gadeshi

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1 - AL-31 (especially F-M1/2 and 117 series) has much more efficient design (which leads to greater specific thrust, fuel efficiency and controllability in harsh and difficult running modes such as high AOA, boundary flow sucked into the intake and others, in which RD-33 become very difficult controllable).
And of course RD-33 lacks modern design features like FADEC, BLISK compressor wheels, 2100K+ materials and several others which make AL-31 outstanding. AL-31 has constantly been modernised and overhauled from version to version while RD-33 has left in the early 80-s by its tech level and technical data. Alsough AL-31 allows a fighters to have greater combat ranges due to greater fuel efficiency, while RD-33 powered fighters have 250 km intercept radius with one supersonic leap on the route.

And another one "feature" of AL-31 which RD-33 lack: it can be a powerplant for heavy fighters.

2 - Yeah, RR engines are leaps, but allof them are in the past. Only Trent has left on the level, but it is not a fighter engine.
As for Spey... @ice berg, are you a real moroon, or just kidding me? Spey was designed in 1955 and first flown in 1964 as civillian engine. The only countries where Spey has left in the air are Brasilia/Italia with AMX (civillian non-afterburned engine) and China which gather foreign old leaps being unable to make its own ones.

You should more read but less write to avoid so visible self-crapping mistakes like the following:
The RR engines is leaps and bounds ahead of crap russian ones. And it got nothing to do with Russia at all. Never take a basic course in logics? It is not a Russian engine. The polar bear has zip to say about this. Russian pride and ignorance are ridiculous.
But instead of reading at least Wiki: like this (but Janes is much better) you have shown yourself as nervous schoolboy which argues with diplomed engineer adult.
Yes, Spey is not Russian engine. So, if you'll spread your narrow eyes wider and reread my original post, you will see that I have said that it is NOT Russian and is not Russias property or problem. You can sell this obsoletion to anybody who want to buy it :p

ROFL, if Russia are willing to sell AL-31 to China, why would they say no to other countries? Your lack of logic are amazing.
I have all the logic necessary. If China will resell those engines, it will not share aftermarket profits with Russia. This is bad move. Also China will sell engines (and fighters which they power) to the countries, which are in the Russias black list. Look at the political situation in the Middle East and Africa and you will see all the reasons (if you want to, but you don't, you want just puke, not think).

Why will China want to sell the engines to other countries? It is Russian engines. It is up to the russians who they want to sell to, just like the export of RD-33 were approved by russians.
Read a quote above. BTW, China want to sell fighters and engines for them independently from the Russian political interests. China constantly tries to copy-paste engine technologies illegally. Those reasons are enough to sell advanced engines to China with restriction for internal use only.

OMG you are judging where ppl are from by the flags they display in an internet forum? Jeeez, just when I thought it is not possible to be more ignorant, you proved me wrong......
Facts are bitches, kid, as post # 85 proved your ignorance.
Post #85 proves nothing except you have complete mess in your head, kid.
K-8 - Ukrainian AI-25TL (aged non-Russian non-fighter engine)
Hongdu L-15 - Ukrainian AI-222-25 (not Russian, aging non-fighter engine)
Jf-17 - Export approved obsoleted RD-93

Where are AL-31 or the other 12-tonns class engine powered plane among them?

Go read some real books, not Chinese fans forums before you start argue with adults.
And, BTW, we are talking about J-10 with AL-31FN, not about trainers or light fighters. So, read the discussion first.
 
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p2prada

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1. ----------no such things...
Just a typo. I was talking about JH-7A. Guess what? I made the same typo again when I typed it, was more aware. :)

USAAF and RuAF also operate specialized heavy fighters , instead of multirole capability. (F15C/D vs F15E ,Su27/35 vs Su30SM/Su34)...I thought the fleet scale and manpower of the each AirForce decided it...PLAAF has around 400K personal and around 2000 combat airplanes, so it might afford such 'luxury'...and on the other hand, the specialized fighter unit might have better training and combat ability in either air-air or air- gound combat .it is reasonable due to the more focused training and flight hours .and it is approved by the fact --- there are 4 Su30MKK regiments in PLAAF. the only unit for A2A combat purpose to study the twin-seater fighter's air-air combat tactics and specialty(the rest focus in A2G training) won most among the four regiments in the 'Red Flag' style Air combat exercise organized by PLAAF...
I think both single role and multirole have their advantages. Meaning, with a multirole aircraft, the pilot is well versed in both A2A and A2G. So he can be moved around the battlefield very quickly depending on situation and in a more tactical environment he can be used in a swing role depending on payload. That's one reason why every major air field in India will be MKI friendly. So squadrons can be moved immediately and thrust into any situation very quickly. It is more expensive on a per plane and per pilot basis, but overall there is more efficiency during wartime.

Second point is that even multirole aircraft will have specific roles to play. Some squadrons of the MKI are primarily meant for A2A, some assigned for CAS and interdiction and some for DPS. So during training, their goal is more focussed in their respective roles. At the same time if strike role MKIs are pushed into air combat, they will have the firepower, capability and training to fight against a single role A2A aircraft of the enemy instead of having to run away like it is the case today.

Number of hours depends. How many hours of training do your pilots receive on platforms? Any idea?

2. as I know the current J-10 export version would be close to J10A hardware standard...and no AESA ...
Hmm, so export approvals may be some years away for the J-10B. Then there's the question of the success of WS-10 also.
 

ice berg

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1 - AL-31 (especially F-M1/2 and 117 series) has much more efficient design (which leads to greater specific thrust, fuel efficiency and controllability in harsh and difficult running modes such as high AOA, boundary flow sucked into the intake and others, in which RD-33 become very difficult controllable).
And of course RD-33 lacks modern design features like FADEC, BLISK compressor wheels, 2100K+ materials and several others which make AL-31 outstanding. AL-31 has constantly been modernised and overhauled from version to version while RD-33 has left in the early 80-s by its tech level and technical data. Alsough AL-31 allows a fighters to have greater combat ranges due to greater fuel efficiency, while RD-33 powered fighters have 250 km intercept radius with one supersonic leap on the route.

And another one "feature" of AL-31 which RD-33 lack: it can be a powerplant for heavy fighters.

Apple and orange. They belong to two different class of engines.
2 - Yeah, RR engines are leaps, but allof them are in the past. Only Trent has left on the level, but it is not a fighter engine.
As for Spey... @ice berg, are you a real moroon, or just kidding me? Spey was designed in 1955 and first flown in 1964 as civillian engine. The only countries where Spey has left in the air are Brasilia/Italia with AMX (civillian non-afterburned engine) and China which gather foreign old leaps being unable to make its own ones.

You are the moron here. China received ToT from UK and producing their version of Speys.
You should more read but less write to avoid so visible self-crapping mistakes like the following:


But instead of reading at least Wiki: like this (but Janes is much better) you have shown yourself as nervous schoolboy which argues with diplomed engineer adult.
There are many types of engineer, son.
Yes, Spey is not Russian engine. So, if you'll spread your narrow eyes wider and reread my original post, you will see that I have said that it is NOT Russian and is not Russias property or problem. You can sell this obsoletion to anybody who want to buy it :p
Amazing logics again, if it is not Russian engines. Why you bring it up in the first place?

I have all the logic necessary. If China will resell those engines, it will not share aftermarket profits with Russia. This is bad move. Also China will sell engines (and fighters which they power) to the countries, which are in the Russias black list. Look at the political situation in the Middle East and Africa and you will see all the reasons (if you want to, but you don't, you want just puke, not think).
I already gave you a list of aircrafts exported. Guess you are the russian puke kid here.

Read a quote above. BTW, China want to sell fighters and engines for them independently from the Russian political interests. China constantly tries to copy-paste engine technologies illegally. Those reasons are enough to sell advanced engines to China with restriction for internal use only.

Copy paste engine technologies? ROFl and you claimed you are an engineer? You can not copy paste engines, that is the whole point, son. Desgin, manufacturing, metallurgy, supporting facilities. You can not copy those. Frankly if you really are an engineer, I would be really embarassed.
Post #85 proves nothing except you have complete mess in your head, kid.
K-8 - Ukrainian AI-25TL (aged non-Russian non-fighter engine)
Hongdu L-15 - Ukrainian AI-222-25 (not Russian, aging non-fighter engine)
Jf-17 - Export approved obsoleted RD-93

Where are AL-31 or the other 12-tonns class engine powered plane among them?
Proves you are the brainless zombie here. It clearly shows you can export an aircraft regardless of where your engines are coming from. You are the one who claim it cant be done.
Go read some real books, not Chinese fans forums before you start argue with adults.
And, BTW, we are talking about J-10 with AL-31FN, not about trainers or light fighters. So, read the discussion first.

You are the one brought JH7 into this topic, maybe you should learn to read first. Guess that is not a prerequirement to become an engineer in your country, huh?
 
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gadeshi

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You are the moron here. China received ToT from UK and producing their version of Speys.
How does it deny the fact that it is obsoleted? Why to speak about it if we speak about J-10 with AL-31? How does JH-7 production approve your crap about AL-31 and J-10? Does it match the topic at all?

Apple and orange. They belong to two different class of engines.
Oh yeah, you've got it on the 3-rd day of discussion, congratulations! So why do you speak about JF-17 with RD-33 in the post #85? What does it approve? China has exported trainers? My greetings to you. But how does it approve your meaning that China can export J-10?

China cannot do it, because AL-31 reexport is forbidden by Russian-Chinese export agreement. If China will brake that agreement terms, Russia will rise a price for heat-resistant spare parts and your PLAAF will fly bicicles or obsoleted J-7 and J-17.
Facts are bitches. Nothing personal.

Copy paste engine technologies? ROFl and you claimed you are an engineer? You can not copy paste engines, that is the whole point, son. Desgin, manufacturing, metallurgy, supporting facilities. You can not copy those. Frankly if you really are an engineer, I would be really embarassed.
Thank you, Captain Obvious! If you'll read my posts in Su-35 and Fighters technology Evolution themes, you'll see that I've wrote exactly the same. It is clear like crystal.

But Chinese engine designers several times tried to copy AL-31 and RD-93 without viable results because they've tried to use heat-resistant alloys instead of bimetallic compounds and without controllable crystallisation process in blades production.

The same problems with no results are in aero and gas dynamics (Chinese still cannot calculate and design even controllable air intake, avoiding to speak about hot engine routes). Yes, yes... J-10 uses copy-pasted air intake from MiG-23BN purchased from Egypt in the late 80-s. This intake is copy-pasted with minor changes and used on late J-8 first, then it has migrated to J-10, without changes again. As far as this intake was designed to feed rather less air-thirsty R-29/35 engines by 2 intakes per engine, it cannot effectively feed AL-31 by 1 intake. So, AL-31 on J-10 lacks 5 to 15 % of power (depending on flight regime, according to TsAGI and MiG specs who helped to calculate and test it in wind tunels).

Yes, so Iliya Fedorov (ODK CEO) is not en engineer to, if he have said that China purchases a lot of spare parts every year, rather more than needed for engine maintenance. Mostly heat-resistant parts. "Probably they try to use AL-31 parts in their own engines, but this won't work" he have said.

Proves you are the brainless zombie here. It clearly shows you can export an aircraft regardless of where your engines are coming from. You are the one who claim it cant be done.
It proves nothing.

All the planes in the list are not fighters except JF-17. All of them are powered by obsoleted and non-Russian engines, whose manufacturers are indeferent to what you will do with them. RD-93 reexport permission is granted, AI-25 and AI-222 ae Ukrainian engines. As a Ukrainian I can say, that Ukrainian politicians unfortunately are busy with stealing the budget and criminal wars. They don't bother with engines. They have laid on the politics and national interests. So you can export what you want with those engines without a hassle. As you have said, RR also have grated you all the permissions on Speys.

But AL-31 is forbidden to reexport. You can push tons of crap on me, you can yelling and spit to any side of horizon, but facts are the same: China will never export J-10 until your own 12-tons class engines will get out of the diapers.

PS: Your posts style (you speak like a 12-yrs old nigga on the RAP party), lack of any even small facts and tremendous proud and "chinese logics" don't make you an adult or respectable man. Only the facts do. Try to read more and speak less, than you'll look less stupid as for now.

Our discussion is over.
 

ice berg

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How does it deny the fact that it is obsoleted? Why to speak about it if we speak about J-10 with AL-31? How does JH-7 production approve your crap about AL-31 and J-10? Does it match the topic at all?

Face palm. You are the one brought the Jh-7 into this topic in the first place. You suffer of amnesia or something?
Oh yeah, you've got it on the 3-rd day of discussion, congratulations! So why do you speak about JF-17 with RD-33 in the post #85? What does it approve? China has exported trainers? My greetings to you. But how does it approve your meaning that China can export J-10?
And you still didnt get it after 3 days... It is called exemples. Ever heard of that? China has exported fighters with foreign engines before. Engine is by no means an impossible obstacle. If they can export Jf-17 and other jets, then they can certainly export J-10 if they choose.
China cannot do it, because AL-31 reexport is forbidden by Russian-Chinese export agreement. If China will brake that agreement terms, Russia will rise a price for heat-resistant spare parts and your PLAAF will fly bicicles or obsoleted J-7 and J-17.
Facts are bitches. Nothing personal.

Now you are showing your ignorance again. A deal can be negotiated. IF China wants to sell J10, then a deal can be reached with the russians. If the Russians say yes to RD-33 why will they sao no to Al-31? And LMAO about the J7 and J-17 part. You think that PLAAF got Jf-17?muhhahahahahha. What a funny kid you are. They never inducted Jf-17, kid.
Thank you, Captain Obvious! If you'll read my posts in Su-35 and Fighters technology Evolution themes, you'll see that I've wrote exactly the same. It is clear like crystal.

But Chinese engine designers several times tried to copy AL-31 and RD-93 without viable results because they've tried to use heat-resistant alloys instead of bimetallic compounds and without controllable crystallisation process in blades production.
I will like to see the source that they tried to copy AL-31. Ws10 A are been used on several squadrons of J11b/J11Bs. I see no reason they will go back and try to copy Al-31.
The same problems with no results are in aero and gas dynamics (Chinese still cannot calculate and design even controllable air intake, avoiding to speak about hot engine routes). Yes, yes... J-10 uses copy-pasted air intake from MiG-23BN purchased from Egypt in the late 80-s. This intake is copy-pasted with minor changes and used on late J-8 first, then it has migrated to J-10, without changes again. As far as this intake was designed to feed rather less air-thirsty R-29/35 engines by 2 intakes per engine, it cannot effectively feed AL-31 by 1 intake. So, AL-31 on J-10 lacks 5 to 15 % of power (depending on flight regime, according to TsAGI and MiG specs who helped to calculate and test it in wind tunels).
LMAO it is AL-31FN, not AL-31 on J10. ROFL
Yes, so Iliya Fedorov (ODK CEO) is not en engineer to, if he have said that China purchases a lot of spare parts every year, rather more than needed for engine maintenance. Mostly heat-resistant parts. "Probably they try to use AL-31 parts in their own engines, but this won't work" he have said.
So order more spare parts = they try to use AL-31 parts in their own engines. Amazing russian logics. In any other language it is called pure speculation. But guess it is considered science in Mother Russia.

It proves nothing.

All the planes in the list are not fighters except JF-17. All of them are powered by obsoleted and non-Russian engines, whose manufacturers are indeferent to what you will do with them. RD-93 reexport permission is granted, AI-25 and AI-222 ae Ukrainian engines. As a Ukrainian I can say, that Ukrainian politicians unfortunately are busy with stealing the budget and criminal wars. They don't bother with engines. They have laid on the politics and national interests. So you can export what you want with those engines without a hassle. As you have said, RR also have grated you all the permissions on Speys.
Not every country can afford or access to state of the art engines. If you can afford a BMW, does it means you cant drive a Tata? That however has nothing to do what China can export to. It is supply and demand, pure and simple. You dont got to judge this.
But AL-31 is forbidden to reexport. You can push tons of crap on me, you can yelling and spit to any side of horizon, but facts are the same: China will never export J-10 until your own 12-tons class engines will get out of the diapers.
You are the cry baby here on what China can or can not export. I already provided you a list of aircrafts that are exported including Jf-17. It is their decision if they want to export J-10 or not. I am cool either way unlike you get all worked up because of this.
PS: Your posts style (you speak like a 12-yrs old nigga on the RAP party), lack of any even small facts and tremendous proud and "chinese logics" don't make you an adult or respectable man. Only the facts do. Try to read more and speak less, than you'll look less stupid as for now.

Our discussion is over.
You should really listen to your own advice. It is obvious that facts are alien to you.
 

Defcon 1

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Hmm, so export approvals may be some years away for the J-10B. Then there's the question of the success of WS-10 also.
With the J10B deal with Pakistan fallen through, will the J10B even exist?
 

gadeshi

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You are the cry baby here on what China can or can not export. I already provided you a list of aircrafts that are exported including Jf-17. It is their decision if they want to export J-10 or not. I am cool either way unlike you get all worked up because of this.Once more for dumbs:

How does it deny the fact that it is obsoleted? Why to speak about it if we speak about J-10 with AL-31? How does JH-7 production approve your crap about AL-31 and J-10? Does it match the topic at all?

Face palm. You are the one brought the Jh-7 into this topic in the first place. You suffer of amnesia or something?
I've enlisted it as an example of what China CAN export without a hassle.

China cannot do it, because AL-31 reexport is forbidden by Russian-Chinese export agreement. If China will brake that agreement terms, Russia will rise a price for heat-resistant spare parts and your PLAAF will fly bicicles or obsoleted J-7 and J-17.
Facts are bitches. Nothing personal.
Now you are showing your ignorance again. A deal can be negotiated. IF China wants to sell J10, then a deal can be reached with the russians. If the Russians say yes to RD-33 why will they sao no to Al-31?
And LMAO about the J7 and J-17 part. You think that PLAAF got Jf-17?muhhahahahahha. What a funny kid you are. They never inducted Jf-17, kid.
1 - There will be no deals about AL-31 reexport. The reasons are simple:
a - Pakistan and almost all the other Chinese potential customers are in the Russian black list. As for Pakistan, it is US ally and Indias enemy. India is Russian ally in the region. India is still having delays and troubles with light (LCA) and medium (MRCA) fighters. Russia will ban all the weapons contracts to Pakistan it can reach untill India will fulfill this gap.
b - Pakistan is islamic country near the Russia (and China BTW) border. As US are willing to gather all the islamic countries in the Asia and Africa into the joint radical islamic khalifat, it is a strong possibility of Pakistan inclusion into it. Then khalifat will heat India, China and Russia at the same time with US support. They cannot win, but they are fanatics, so they will painfully troll all the non-islamic countries nearby. Why to arm a potential foe?
c - China needs full access to AL-31 technologies to be capable of full technical and development support for potential customers. Israel have got those access to GE J-79 engine technologies to be capable of Kfir export and support. Russia will never grant this access to anybody, even such close ally as India.

JF-17 or trainers are not a serious weapons, so their export doesn't disturb Russia.

2 - I know (and all other world to) that JF-17 is export-only junk. But if Russia will ban the AL-31 spares, you will fly junk or accept the WS-10 300 hrs lifetime with tremendously expensive capital repairs every 3 months due to its heat parts extremely low quality.

So, ignorance and irrational logics is your "feature".

LMAO it is AL-31FN, not AL-31 on J10. ROFL
AL-31 is the large engines family. AL-31FN is a variant of the basic early AL-31F with bottom gearbox for J-10. Embarasing to forget it for "adult" forum member.

Not every country can afford or access to state of the art engines. If you can afford a BMW, does it means you cant drive a Tata? That however has nothing to do what China can export to. It is supply and demand, pure and simple. You dont got to judge this.
Serious weapons and technology exports are the political driving and political affecting process. It's not bying and selling Chinese down jackets on the local junk market. You cannot buy everything you want just because you have enough money. If you want to buy some sensitive things (and 12-15 tons-class engines are the sensitive ones), you must be ready to comply a seller-established restrictions and terms.
Only kids can think that if they want some big toy, they can get it just paing money.

You are the cry baby here on what China can or can not export. I already provided you a list of aircrafts that are exported including Jf-17. It is their decision if they want to export J-10 or not. I am cool either way unlike you get all worked up because of this.
This is complete crap. You have provided the list of weak, second-line weapons, which export is not interest to Russia and powered by non-Russian engines. If would you put J-11 or the other AL-31 powered fighter in the list, that will be a proper proof. But you haven't. Just saying nothing trainers and light fighter which technologies and parts access is granted or omitted.

Read more books and official reports for pros, not for hamsters. And think wider then the local junk-market.
 

gadeshi

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And another one lools:
I will like to see the source that they tried to copy AL-31. Ws10 A are been used on several squadrons of J11b/J11Bs. I see no reason they will go back and try to copy Al-31.
1 - WS-10 is AL-31F copy with some local changes.

2 - According to official Chinese sources, there were 2 test squadrons of J-11A/B (24 jets) trying to use WS-10. But that squadrons were downed to earth due to constant engines failures, complete thrust lack and instability and the other several deseases including even 3 accidents with in-flight turbine partial destruction.

After that PLAAF has rejected to receive J-11 with WS-10 for the 1-st line service.

All of those J-11 were converted back to AL-31F within several months by emergency AL-31 order for 100 engines (50 for those 2 squadrons and 50 for another parties waiting on the Shengyang facility) with another 100 option. All of these contracts were fullfilled by UMPO and Salut facilities including 100 optionals. Another serious contracts has followed than.

After those failure PLAAF has tried to test improved WS-10 on 4-6 J-11 simultaneously to not to jepardise all the squadron, but all of those trials ended with complete failure.

In February 2013 The Great Engine Programme was announced.
In the preamble to the announcement is stated that Chinese science and engineering has failed to copy foreign engines or develop indigenous on foreign basis. So, the Programme points the aim to mater modern (4G) engines design and production in Year 2035. A tremendous amount of money - 35 Billions of US dollars - has been assigned to the Program.

So, there were officially stated that China will be capable of modern engine production in 2035 or later. Think yourself, can China export modern capable fighters or not.
 

gadeshi

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With the J10B deal with Pakistan fallen through, will the J10B even exist?
It definetly will exist as technology testbed, airshows and propaganda product and product for limited internal usage.
Just like Russian MiG-35
 

no smoking

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And another one lools:


1 - WS-10 is AL-31F copy with some local changes.

2 - According to official Chinese sources, there were 2 test squadrons of J-11A/B (24 jets) trying to use WS-10. But that squadrons were downed to earth due to constant engines failures, complete thrust lack and instability and the other several deseases including even 3 accidents with in-flight turbine partial destruction.

After that PLAAF has rejected to receive J-11 with WS-10 for the 1-st line service.
First, there is no such thing as J-11A equiped with WS-10 as it was license produced Su-27.
Second, this events of "squadrons downed to earth due to engines failures" was the news between 2004-2007. The problems were fixed before 2010.
Thirld, currently new batch of J-11B is flying with WS-10A not WS-10. So far it is estimated that 100-125 J-11B with WS-10A and the number is still increasing.
It is 2013 now, you have to update your information.

All of those J-11 were converted back to AL-31F within several months by emergency AL-31 order for 100 engines (50 for those 2 squadrons and 50 for another parties waiting on the Shengyang facility) with another 100 option. All of these contracts were fullfilled by UMPO and Salut facilities including 100 optionals. Another serious contracts has followed than.
It is impossible. Simply AL-31F and WS-10A are 2 different engines, you can't replace one with another without making significant change of the existing plane structure. The expense of such change won't be much less than building a new plane.

After those failure PLAAF has tried to test improved WS-10 on 4-6 J-11 simultaneously to not to jepardise all the squadron, but all of those trials ended with complete failure.
Once agin, WS-10 has never been equiped on J-11. And where is your source of all these trials failures?

In February 2013 The Great Engine Programme was announced.
In the preamble to the announcement is stated that Chinese science and engineering has failed to copy foreign engines or develop indigenous on foreign basis. So, the Programme points the aim to mater modern (4G) engines design and production in Year 2035. A tremendous amount of money - 35 Billions of US dollars - has been assigned to the Program.
That is funny. WS-10A/B is still in the progress. WS-15, the next generation engine for J-20 already started before 2004 and now you claim they are all failed. And the latest project of engine developement is up to 2030, where did you get this 2035 programme?


So, there were officially stated that China will be capable of modern engine production in 2035 or later. Think yourself, can China export modern capable fighters or not.
Again, where is your source. What is the code of this modern engine in your claim, which is supposed to equipe in 2035 or later?
 

shiphone

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With the J10B deal with Pakistan fallen through, will the J10B even exist?
I'm curious why you question the existance of J10B project. maybe due to some media?..LOL ,you'd better identify carefully..no reliable source in China would say that J10B was a Export project like FC-1...this is a PLAAF approved and funded further development of J10 project... it has been 5 years hard test flights since the maiden flight, this bird is going to commission soon...LOL, I would keep it updated here...as I said, the SP batch is in test fight now...

It definetly will exist as technology testbed, airshows and propaganda product and product for limited internal usage.
Just like Russian MiG-35
I can't understand why someone could Blah,BLah so much...I would avoid talking about those I can't get first hand info...
As I said, someone's advantage is just his some language ability which help him to advertise other's or neighbour's achievement and glory here and there....but he also lacks some another basic language to get the correct information to support his comment ...

J10B serial Production batch is around corner...some idiot could choose ignore it...I'm curious whether they would take back their brave words then?

---------------------
repost... one of a batch of photos taken in Apr 2013 by some intern who was fired later...but these photos were well spreaded on the China's forum...LOL...
 
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p2prada

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With the J10B deal with Pakistan fallen through, will the J10B even exist?
If you are talking about PAF, then it is highly unlikely they will get anything concrete done before the decade ends with J-10B. For J-10A, they need Russian approval for the Chinese to re-export the engine. The Russians don't plan on allowing re-export of the AL-31. It will open up an unnecessary competitor if they want to sell Mig-35s, Su-35s and even MKIs.

However the J-10B already exists. PLAAF will start receiving operational birds in the next few years.

I doubt the Chinese will export their high thrust engines to PAF, even after considering PLAAF orders will have to be met first.

Seems to be a dead end for PAF.
 

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