Ceding Aksai Chin not an option for India

[CCTV]

Nothing!Just put your tail between your legs and run before you get ejected from Tibet and East Turkestan and Inner Mongolia too.That should make AC a non issue.

How? When?

 

[no smoking]

Nothing!Just put your tail between your legs and run before you get ejected from Tibet and East Turkestan and Inner Mongolia too.That should make AC a non issue.

Then stop whinning! Roll up your sleeve and do something!
Even as a chinese, I feel sorry for your guys: instead of doing some actually work, you guys just dream that someone else will solve the problem for you! Now you even expect Tibetans or Mongolia to do the work for you? What kind of rising power you are? Imaging power?

 

[t_co]

Nothing!Just put your tail between your legs and run before you get ejected from Tibet and East Turkestan and Inner Mongolia too.That should make AC a non issue.

Why would any country ever give up territory with natural resources and favorable geopolitical positions to satisfy the moral considerations of a weaker neighbor?

 

[desicanuk]

Why would any country ever give up territory with natural resources and favorable geopolitical positions to satisfy the moral considerations of a weaker neighbor?

No.Certainly not.But then we are not talking about Chinese terrritory.We are talking about at least four independent albeit weak sovereign nations whose territories in whole or part are under illegal military occupation by a rising fascist power.Its 1930s all over again.There will be appeasers just as there were then.And lo behold.The righteous triumphed over the might.And just as Hitler and others like him went down so shall their successors in the Middle Kingdom.

 

[CCTV]

No.Certainly not.But then we are not talking about Chinese terrritory.We are talking about at least four independent albeit weak sovereign nations whose territories in whole or part are under illegal military occupation by a rising fascist power.Its 1930s all over again.There will be appeasers just as there were then.And lo behold.The righteous triumphed over the might.And just as Hitler and others like him went down so shall their successors in the Middle Kingdom.

Illegal occupation according to what?

 

[t_co]

Illegal occupation according to what?

According to the rules of DFI

This is an Indian forum after all, they are pro-Republic of India

 

[bose]

Illegal occupation according to what?

Same way Japan occupied China and killed millions in WW-II...

 

[bose]

According to the rules of DFI

This is an Indian forum after all, they are pro-Republic of India

Ask the Tibetians... they have the best answer for you...

 

[t_co]

Same way Japan occupied China and killed millions in WW-II...

There was an active war of resistance going on from 1931 to 1945, mind you. I don't see any of people in the aforementioned regions forming 10000-man guerrilla armies that declare they are fighting for independence.

Legitimacy and recognition for independence comes about through blood. Unless someone is willing to pay that cost and has the ability and officially declared intent to make China pay in blood, those claims are null and void.

My advice to those who back Tibetan or Xinjiang independence has always been thus: come heavy (and eat lead), or not at all.

 

[bose]

There was an active war of resistance going on from 1931 to 1945, mind you. I don't see any of people in the aforementioned regions forming 10000-man guerrilla armies that declare they are fighting for independence.

Legitimacy and recognition for independence comes about through blood. Unless someone is willing to pay that cost and have the ability and intent to make China pay in blood, those claims are null and void.

You are already paying in blood in East Turkministan [XinJian hope I spelt correctly]

 

[t_co]

You are already paying in blood in East Turkministan [XinJian hope I spelt correctly]

Nope, not enough blood. You think a dozen deaths a year scares the PLA or Party?

China killed two million Japanese soldiers from 1931 to 1945. China suffered twenty million fatalities in the same time period, then killed seven million more in the Civil War, then had tens of millions more in the Great Leap Forward.

To quote Wang Zhen:

要结束共产党的领导，拿四千万个人头来，因为，中国共产党的革命是牺牲了四千万人才取得政权的。
If you want to end the rule of the Communist Party, first bring me forty million human heads. Because the Chinese Communist Revolution was acquired with the sacrifice of forty million lives. Any other attempt to unseat the CCP is daydreaming.

And if you want to argue that those deaths are enough 'blood' for legitimacy, you should go yell at India's main weapons supplier about Chechnya. Otherwise, keep beating your chest and issuing empty proclamations.

 

[pmaitra]

Then stop whinning! Roll up your sleeve and do something!
Even as a chinese, I feel sorry for your guys: instead of doing some actually work, you guys just dream that someone else will solve the problem for you! Now you even expect Tibetans or Mongolia to do the work for you? What kind of rising power you are? Imaging power?

+100

Seriously, I am appalled at the way such threads end up as fire fights.

Especially @bose, and @desicanuk

We keep criticizing PRC on moral grounds but we do nothing else on the ground. There is a saying that a barking dog seldom bites, and India is a barking dog. Why will PRC give up any territory it holds? It is powerful, and will not give anything up.

India seriously needs to ramp up its military and economy, and solve the internal issues first. Be strong internally first, and then we should think of threatening others.

Every single thing @t_co has said is realistic. What kind of rising power is India? We give too much lecture, talk too much, sermonize too much, but do very little collectively. No wonder we got a leader like Nehru.

 

[Known_Unknown]

China is drunk with nationalism and thinks the entire world is hers if she can conquer it. Same mistake Hitler did in WWII. Territorial expansionism is long passe.......if China believes it can conquer Indian territory through force, they are dreaming. When countries get too snotty and ambitious for their own good, they are usually smacked down collectively by an alliance of other countries.

 

[t_co]

China is drunk with nationalism and thinks the entire world is hers if she can conquer it. Same mistake Hitler did in WWII. Territorial expansionism is long passe.......if China believes it can conquer Indian territory through force, they are dreaming. When countries get too snotty and ambitious for their own good, they are usually smacked down collectively by an alliance of other countries.

False. China is not out for lebensraum in the same way that Germany or Japan were in the 1930s. Why?

Because China isn't issuing debt (borrowing money) to expand its military.

A nation's checkbook usually tells you a lot more about that country's priorities than its words will.

If you looked at Germany's or Japan's 'checkbook' in 1936, you would have been alarmed. They were borrowing upwards of 10% of their GDP each year to decrease unemployment by shifting out of work men into building tanks, planes, and ships. All those tools of war their national manpower was building can be viewed as an investment, and the only way to earn a return off a fighter plane is to invade, pillage, and expropriate.

Plus, since tanks, planes, and ships become obsolete very quickly, their value depreciates fast. In order for a military buildup to make economic sense, not only do you need your wars to be profitable, you need them to happen in the near-future, while your shiny toys are still shiny.

China isn't doing that. Even the highest estimates of China's defense spending as a % of GDP put it below the US, Russia, and even South Korea.

EDIT: For an example of what happens when a nation spends a lot on the military but never uses it to harvest a 'return' through a successful war, look no further than your own USSR from 1964 to 1991. A steady erosion in national economic competitiveness; shortages of everything; hidden debts loaded all through the banking system; social unrest.

 

[bose]

There was an active war of resistance going on from 1931 to 1945, mind you. I don't see any of people in the aforementioned regions forming 10000-man guerrilla armies that declare they are fighting for independence.

Legitimacy and recognition for independence comes about through blood. Unless someone is willing to pay that cost and has the ability and officially declared intent to make China pay in blood, those claims are null and void.

My advice to those who back Tibetan or Xinjiang independence has always been thus: come heavy (and eat lead), or not at all.

You will collapse the way mighty USSR have been... who much blood Kazak or Turkmen gave to become independent from USSR ?

 

[amoy]

China is drunk with nationalism and thinks the entire world is hers if she can conquer it. Same mistake Hitler did in WWII. Territorial expansionism is long passe.......if China believes it can conquer Indian territory through force, they are dreaming. When countries get too snotty and ambitious for their own good, they are usually smacked down collectively by an alliance of other countries.

Nationalism is the nectar for the mass in absence of other spiritual engine. Don't u find Indian posters are even much much higher in Nationalism?

When will there be a "collective" alliance? Anyway this about China-India rivalry. Most of states would either see it as none of their business, or tilt toward what's in their own interest.

 

[t_co]

The above post also relates to @pmaitra 's point about bulking up India's military.

What would be the profit under such a move? If most of that money goes to overseas arms merchants, there's not even the side benefit of stimulating domestic industrial technology.

The only way India can make a 'profit' off an imported fighter plane, missile, or radar is if it somehow reduces the quantifiable risk of a war happening (provides a safety bonus) or if India has the intent to use those weapons offensively and can win and extract concessions from its defeated opponents.

The first outcome is extraneous because we should all know the biggest contributor to India not getting invaded is that fraction of the defense budget going to nukes, not all the other money that gets spent on Russian and French fighter planes.

The second outcome is dubious, because honestly, can you realistically imagine a scenario where the Indian government proactively enters into the 'right war, at the right time, in the right place, and with the right opponent'?

 

[bose]

The above post also relates to @pmaitra 's point about bulking up India's military.

What would be the profit under such a move? If most of that money goes to overseas arms merchants, there's not even the side benefit of stimulating domestic industrial technology.

The only way India can make a 'profit' off an imported fighter plane, missile, or radar is if it somehow reduces the quantifiable risk of a war happening (provides a safety bonus) or if India has the intent to use those weapons offensively and can win and extract concessions from its defeated opponents.

The first outcome is extraneous because we should all know the biggest contributor to India not getting invaded is that fraction of the defense budget going to nukes, not all the other money that gets spent on Russian and French fighter planes.

The second outcome is dubious, because honestly, can you realistically imagine a scenario where the Indian government proactively enters into the 'right war, at the right time, in the right place, and with the right opponent'?

To put it simply you are nothing but so called chinese genius...

 

[CCTV]

Ask the Tibetians... they have the best answer for you...

Did you asked a Tibetan ?

 

[Ray]

The ideal way India can take on China without a war is to encourage insurrection.