BrahMos Cruise Missile

LETHALFORCE

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Re: Joint Russia-India BrahMos 2 missile to be ready by 2017

The BrahMos missile has a range of 290 km and can carry a conventional warhead of up to 300 kg. It can effectively engage targets from an altitude as low as 10 metres and has a top speed of Mach 2.8, which is about three times faster than the US-made subsonic Tomahawk cruise missile.
Even after investing all the money and joint development the range is still the same.
 

Payeng

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Re: Joint Russia-India BrahMos 2 missile to be ready by 2017

"I think we will need about five years to develop the first fully-functional prototype
:doh: I thought it would be ready for induction by 2017
 

trackwhack

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Re: Joint Russia-India BrahMos 2 missile to be ready by 2017

More worryingly, did they not keep shouting that Bramhos 2 would be flight tested in 2014? Suddenly out of the blue it went to 2017. The financial state of the country is taking its toll. :tsk:
 

Payeng

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Re: Joint Russia-India BrahMos 2 missile to be ready by 2017

enough time to develop a hypersonic missile counter measure :frusty:
 

LETHALFORCE

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Re: Joint Russia-India BrahMos 2 missile to be ready by 2017

:doh: I thought it would be ready for induction by 2017
Add 5 years to any date the Russians give for a project. Anyway mach 6 SHAURYA is here now.
 

sayareakd

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Re: Joint Russia-India BrahMos 2 missile to be ready by 2017

guys this is not the only project India is working on HSTDV, and DRDO RLV, so this project will be additional learning experience for us.

Russia already has hypersonic cruise missile

 

Razor

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Re: Joint Russia-India BrahMos 2 missile to be ready by 2017

Article from Wired

Russia and India are already testing a new supersonic cruise missile, which is pretty cool, we guess. But going Mach 2 or thereabouts isn't all that fast these days. Everything has to go faster. That's why the two countries are also developing a hypersonic missile capable of traveling more than five times the speed of sound. Problem is even building the engines, let alone missiles, is extremely hard to do.

If it works, the missile — called the BrahMos 2 — is expected to travel up to Mach 7 from sea-, land- and air-launched platforms. And it's supposed to be ready for flight tests in 2017, which is overly optimistic, at best. "I think we will need about 5 years to develop the first fully functional prototype," Sivathanu Pillai, CEO of India-based BraHmos Aerospace said in Moscow on Wednesday. Pillai also suggested the missile already exists, and that BrahMos has conducted "lab tests [of the missile] at the speed of 6.5 Mach."

"There's little doubt India and Russia are pursuing hypersonic weapons technology, though it remains to be seen whether such an ambitious timescale as suggested for 'Brahmos 2"² could be met," Douglas Barrie, an air warfare expert for the London-based International Institute for Strategic Studies, writes in an e-mail to Danger Room. "The original Brahmos is basically a Russian missile, the NPO Mashinostroenia 3M-55 Onyx (NATO designation SS-N-26), so it will be interesting to see the extent to which Brahmos 2 might draw on previous Russian hypersonic research and development."

For one, they'll probably need to build a scramjet engine, which is still a long way from being anything but experimental. The concept, though, is surprisingly simple. As the missile — or whatever vehicle the scramjet is attached to — accelerates through the air, the engine begins to suck in oxygen. Stored fuel, such as hydrogen, is then mixed with the oxygen and burned before being accelerated and pumped out through a nozzle. This motion then speeds up the missile to hypersonic speeds. The catch: Getting it to work is really difficult.

There's the sheer heat generated by traveling at such speeds. And getting a scramjet into missile-form is even harder. You'd need sophisticated guidance tools, sensors and navigation equipment to keep it in the air and to its target, while also making it small enough to launch from a conventional aircraft. And you still have to solve the propulsion problems.

Just ask the Pentagon. Its experimental pizza-shaped hypersonic weapon capsule, Falcon, failed its test in August before plunging into the Pacific Ocean. The Air Force's scramjet — the X-51 WaveRider – has a better record, but was bruised by a test last summer when its engine failed. The Air Force is pressing on, however, with a new hypersonic missile for its stealth fighters. The Army's Advanced Hypersonic Weapon has also been successfully tested, but it's nowhere close to a deployable weapon.

"You ask the question, how hard is it? The answer is, it's really hard," says Mark Lewis, formerly the Air Force's chief scientist. "It's not a matter of simply taking a supersonic thing and flying it a little bit faster. The physics work against you, the temperatures get higher, everything really does get harder."

Hypersonic and scramjet research in the United States also goes back to the early days of the Cold War. But it wasn't until 1991 when Russia became the first country to successfully test a scramjet. More tests followed, and with the help of NASA, Russia successfully flew a hydrogen-fueled scramjet at up to Mach 6.4 over Kazakhstan in 1998. In 2001, U.S. defense analysts took notice of a mysterious ultra-high-speed Russian missile test suspected of being powered by a scramjet. The first successful solo American scramjet tests didn't occur until the 2000s, though they were some of the first tests to use engines that operated entirely as scramjets. The earlier Russian tests were hybrid ramjets — slightly different, with oxygen only moving at subsonic speeds inside the engine.

Also, don't think it's a coincidence that Russia now wants a hypersonic missile of its own. In May, Russian defense industry chief Dmitry Rogozin called the decline of research into hypersonic weapons since the Soviet era "a treasonable act to our national interests," and that developing hypersonic weapons was necessary to respond to U.S. developments. Nor are cruise missiles the only area where Russia is afraid of falling behind even more than they already are. It's why Russia is preparing to open up its own version of the far-out research agency Darpa — while also planning a new stealth fighter, directed-energy guns and radars (to help shoot down our stealth planes). Russia also wants new ICBMs (though they flop on launch).

Another reason is that the technology is just really cool. "I think the applications are profound and really could be game-changing," Lewis says about hypersonics. It's flying higher and faster, and not surprising people want it.
I don't understand why they say it will take 5 more years for a prototype, when Pillai suggests "the missile already exists", and lab test at mach 6.5 have been conducted.

Anyway, the USA has been trying their hand at Hypersonic vehicles since cold war days and their success rate is pretty low. So this is not something easy.

Source: Russia Preps Mach 7 Missiles — With India's Help | Danger Room | Wired.com
 
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rock127

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Re: Joint Russia-India BrahMos 2 missile to be ready by 2017

:doh: I thought it would be ready for induction by 2017
Don't worry... it would be ready in 2030 and fully operational in 2071.

Keep faith in our bureaucracy.
 

p2prada

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Re: Joint Russia-India BrahMos 2 missile to be ready by 2017

Design to development to prototype of such a missile will take years.
 

Patriot

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Russia, India to Hold First Launch of BrahMos Submarine-Based Missile in Oct-Nov, 2012



.....

Submarine-based version of the BrahMos Russian-Indian missile will be launched for the first time in Oct-Nov, 2012, the director of BrahMos Aerospace Sivathanu Pillai told ARMS-TASS at the 2-nd international engineering technology forum.

"We're going to hold the first launch of the submarine-adapted missile version by underwater testing platform in October or November", Dr. Pillai said.

According to him, the coming launch will be an important stage in the BrahMosprogram development because after that test Indian Navy will decide whether to arm India's prospective non-nuclear submarines with these missiles.

Representative of Rubin Central Design Bureau earlier told ITAR-TASS that Russian designers were ready to offer Indian Navy non-nuclear submarine Amur-1650 armed either with Club or BrahMos missile systems.

"So far, Indian partners have not brought up an issue of BrahMos integration into Amur-1650 submarine put up for Indian tender under the 75I prospective submarine program", said Andrei Baranov, deputy director general of Rubin bureau for foreign economic activity.

As for him, "the Amur-1650 submarine project is currently armed with Club attack missile system, well-known in Indian Navy and launched by horizontal torpedo tubes. But if Indian party wants the sub to be equipped with vertically-launched BrahMos attack missile system, Rubin bureau would amend the project", Baranov explained.

"BrahMos can be integrated into Amur-1650 as an additional compartment with vertical launch tubes", pointed out the design bureau's director........
 

Payeng

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Hooghly dry run sets NE stage for BrahMos Unit That Will Form Third BrahMos Regiment Uses River For Brahmaputra Simulation | idrw.org


An Army unit that will be deployed to the Northeast before long as the third BrahMos regiment has set up base on the outskirts of Kolkata and is using the Hooghly channel for simulated trials. The supersonic missiles, two regiments of which have already been delivered to the Army, have a range of 290km and can move at speeds of Mach 2.8. The third regiment is to be deployed in the Northeast along the Line of Actual Control.

"The supersonic missiles will add punch to India's military set-up in the Northeast. It will be an effective deterrent. There are high mountain ranges along the LAC and if India was to ever consider a strike into China, the best route for the missiles would be along the Brahmaputra channel. The unit that will ultimately form the third BrahMos regiment has been placed strategically on the banks of the Hooghly near Kolkata," a source revealed.

"By the time they are relocated to the Northeast, the unit will have a fair idea of how to handle the missiles so they reach enemy territory undetected along the Brahmaputra that flows into Arunachal Pradesh from China," the source added.
Due to the lack of mountain radars, not much is known of the movement on the Chinese side. According to officials, the mountain ranges along the LAC provide cover to the Indians as well. "Just as we are blind to the goings-on and troop movement on the other side, the Chinese are in no better position," another source said.

"According to our estimates, any air or missile attack that the Chinese consider will be along the Brahmaputra channel as such movement is very difficult to detect. We are now thinking on the same lines. If India were to launch a retaliatory attack on the Chinese, it would have to be along the Brahmaputra," the source added.

Though the channels of the Hooghly and the Brahmaputra don't exactly match, the Army is trying to give its officers and men a feel of how to operate the supersonic cruise missiles along a river. Just like the Brahmaputra, the Hooghly too has several bends that will have to be negotiated by the missile on its way to its target.

BrahMos missiles have the capability of flying at a height of barely 10 metres and strike surface targets. The Army wants the missiles to skip the surface of the river to avoid detection by enemy radar. Incidentally, the distance from Kolkata to the estuary point (in the Bay ofBengal) along the Hooghly is 148km. The officers can set mock targets on either bank and carry out simulated strikes. This will make their job easier if the need arises to use the missiles for real. The Army unit also makes use of small- and medium-sized vessels to move along the Hooghly for closer inspection and setting of targets.

"The Army has gone in for the Block-II variant of the BrahMos, which has target discrimination capabilities. The ground systems and the missiles of this variant are more advanced and can carry out 'fly and forget' attacks on selected targets," the source said.
Each BrahMos regiment comprises 65 missiles, 5 mobile autonomous launchers on Tatra vehicles and 2 mobile command posts. The Navy has already inducted the BrahMos and has fitted them on most frontline battleships. Efforts are now on to develop BrahMos variants that can be launched from submarines and aircraft.
Rubbish news.......
 

Payeng

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Seeker capability is maximized. It has the ability to actually employ sophisticated image recognition and processing techniques like the Nag does, and choose the optimal spot.

Second, coming in from steep angles also confounds many typical SAM arrays which have elevation difficulties with their radars - they cant look directly upwards. The same goes for the EW fit

Third: A carrier has two main things to do - motive power to add speed to its launch (get extra speed over its deck) and second, keep flight operations going. A vertically attacking missile with submunition warheads can take out the entire launch surface with cluster warheads & does not need to sink the AC to make it useless.
Do you advocate such a flight course should be chosen for an anti ship version of BrahMos?
 

blueblood

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Problem is after missile is fired submarine location is detected and 290 is not much, anyways if India is going to select a submarine version missile then we are going for a Russian submarine, interesting :hmm:
It is a problem when used for land attack. For AShM version it can engage a warship successfully or not but will still have enough time to disappear. 290 km gives you more or less an hour before helis come searching for you, which is the mainstay ASW platform for most navies especially our neighbours.
 

Armand2REP

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Problem is after missile is fired submarine location is detected and 290 is not much, anyways if India is going to select a submarine version missile then we are going for a Russian submarine, interesting :hmm:
290km is more than enough range for a launching submarine to escape. Not even an AWACs over the ship is going to detect the launch location much less shipbourne radar. As long as you have satcoms to relay the target coordinates to your missiles, you will get away.

It is a problem when used for land attack. For AShM version it can engage a warship successfully or not but will still have enough time to disappear. 290 km gives you more or less an hour before helis come searching for you, which is the mainstay ASW platform for most navies especially our neighbours.
ASW helicopters are heavily loaded in configuration... they would be lucky to even get out 300km before they had to come back, much less actually search for anything.
 

sayareakd

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India to have hypersonic reusable Brahmos II in five years Source

something very interesting which needs discussion on separate thread about reusable hypersonic Brahmos missile.

India hopes to have its next higher level multi-target missile, the "Hypersonic Reusable Cruise Missile", called "Brahmos II", in the next five years, distinguished missile scientist and Defence Research Development Organisation's (DRDO) Chief Controller (R and D) A Sivathanu Pillai said on Friday.Also known as the "next version of the Sudarsana Chakra", the Brahmos-II programme has been started with its design and basic technology development, Pillai said here on Friday, while delivering the prestigious "Dr V C Kulandaiswamy Endowment Lecture"' at the Anna University to honour its former vice-chancellor.

The mission was to develop a multi-target, anti-ship/anti-land targets missile which travelling at a hypersonic speed (at a speed of 'Mach 7), can "deliver the warhead, assess the destruction of target, come back and get ready to go again," :shocked::shocked:pillai said, adding that the "Brahmos-II project" was also a joint venture with the Russians like the Brahmos-I. The scientist is also the Chief Executive and Managing Director of the "Brahmos Aerospace", the Indo-Russian joint venture.

Yet, what will be unique about 'Brahmos-II' was that India will have the lead in this hypersonic missile technologically with "multiple versions" – it can also be used for underwater missions aimed at submarine targets, giving the country an extra edge in this class of missile, he noted. The DRDO, which is shouldering India's "Integrated Guided Missile Development Programme (IGMDP)" since 1983 when A P J Abdul Kalam was at its helm, has a perspective plan till 2050, he added.

Terming the supersonic Brahmos I cruise missiles as a "wonderful product", which the Indian Armed Forces alone was the first to possess such a missile, Pillai said it had already been inducted into our Army and Navy, and will be inducted in the Indian Air Force by the end of this year
India to have hypersonic Brahmos II in five years | idrw.org
 
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sayareakd

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Re: India to have hypersonic Brahmos II in five years Source

Reusable Brahmos II missile......................:thumb:
 

Defcon 1

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Re: India to have hypersonic Brahmos II in five years Source

I don't understand the sense behind it. The current order book for Brahmos is huge and it will increase even further as newer naval ships are inducted. Also our rate of missile production is very slow (1 regiment in two years). It will take about 5 years to complete the orders of this missile and as soon as the orders are complete, it will become obsolete as Brahmos 2 will be introduced.

What a nice way to screw it up.
 

Defcon 1

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Re: India to have hypersonic Brahmos II in five years Source

double post
 
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