BrahMos Cruise Missile

[Defcon 1]

WRONG.


Let's talk about the KE part first.

For Spice 2000-

All up mass of ordnance including the warhead -1100 kg .

Terminal velocity just before hitting the target is in the order of 400-500 km per hour. Maybe even lower.
I will use 138.88 m/sec or 500 km/hr for the purpose of our calculation.


KE = 1/2 x 1100 kg x 138.88^2 m/s = 10,608,209.92 joules.


For Brahmos missile -

The missile weight just before hitting its target is muchhigher than 1.5 tons. Coz fuel fraction including the solid booster isn't 0.5. let's consider your figure of 1.5 tons as all up weight for the sake of argument and do a rough calculation.

The missile is travelling at Mach 2.8. which is 960.4 m/sec at sea level.

So

KE= 1/2 x 1500 kgx 960^2 m/s = 691,776,120 joules.

KE of Brahmos at 691,776,120 joules is much much higher than KE of Spice 2000 at 10,608,209.92 joules .


Brahmos uses a smaller 200-300 kg warhead but the explosive formulation used isn't the same as the one used in the vanilla warhead of Spice 2000. Spice is a kit to which we fit to our own warheads. The explosive power of Brahmos warhead in TNT is much higher per unit mass than the 900 kg warhead of Spice 2000

PS- I don't blurt out stuff untill I am absolutely sure of what I am saying.

Why instead of reading a perfectly clear post do you continue to write stupid stuff?

Where the hell did I say that KE of SPICE 2000 is greater than Brahmos? Hallucinating much?

I have said in #2426

Some rough calculations will shown that kinetic energy will only amount for KE of around 800 million joule where as difference of 600 kg in warhead weight will result in different of 2.4 billion joules, assuming warhead is TNT. Therefore, the SPICE 2000 strike will still result in an additional 1.6 billion joules of energy being expended.

Assuming that both brahmos and spice warheads contain TNT, the explosive energy of SPICE 2000 will be way greater than the KE difference between brahmos and SPICE. How is it not clear from the numbers?

According to your calculations KE of brahmos is around 694 million joules.
Assuming that it carries TNT warhead, its explosive energy would be 300*1000*4000=1200 million joules (1 gm of TNT results in 4000 joules)
This means that total energy released on brahmos strike is 1200+694=1894 million joules

Even if we assume that SPICE has KE of zero, its explosive energy will be 900*1000*4000=3600 million joules.

So SPICE will cause more destruction. What is so difficult to understand here?

PS- I don't blurt out stuff untill I am absolutely sure of what I am saying.

You do exactly that. I just proved it.

 

[Defcon 1]

And I will soon get back to you on the fuel fraction of Brahmos type of missiles. I mean ramjet ones .
I am certain Brahmos has a higher empty weight without its aviation grade Kerosene fuel and the booster assembly.

Doesn't matter, even if Brahmos's fuel fraction is zero, it will still have lower energy compared to SPICE. KE is linearly dependent on mass

 

[FalconSlayers]

WRONG.


Let's talk about the KE part first.

For Spice 2000-

All up mass of ordnance including the warhead -1100 kg .

Terminal velocity just before hitting the target is in the order of 400-500 km per hour. Maybe even lower.
I will use 138.88 m/sec or 500 km/hr for the purpose of our calculation.


KE = 1/2 x 1100 kg x 138.88^2 m/s = 10,608,209.92 joules.


For Brahmos missile -

The missile weight just before hitting its target is muchhigher than 1.5 tons. Coz fuel fraction including the solid booster isn't 0.5. let's consider your figure of 1.5 tons as all up weight for the sake of argument and do a rough calculation.

The missile is travelling at Mach 2.8. which is 960.4 m/sec at sea level.

So

KE= 1/2 x 1500 kgx 960^2 m/s = 691,776,120 joules.

KE of Brahmos at 691,776,120 joules is much much higher than KE of Spice 2000 at 10,608,209.92 joules .


Brahmos uses a smaller 200-300 kg warhead but the explosive formulation used isn't the same as the one used in the vanilla warhead of Spice 2000. Spice is a kit to which we fit to our own warheads. The explosive power of Brahmos warhead in TNT is much higher per unit mass than the 900 kg warhead of Spice 2000

PS- I don't blurt out stuff untill I am absolutely sure of what I am saying.

Bro What is the height you took for SPICE-2000 launch? It is I guess 33,000 feet from where Indian Airforce dis the airstrike in Balakot last year.

 

[Defcon 1]

Besides the warhead weight matric, what's important is the actual mass of explosives packed in the warhead. The packing density .

What is even more important is the velocity of detonation and blast performance .
And Brahmos warhead trumps Spice , Paveway , and even the ARDE 250 and 450 kg warhead in all metrics barring the actual mass.

Sure, I will wait for you to prove that instead of making yet another empty post.

 

[Arihant Roy]

This is the basic Brahmos PCB warhead .

A newer warhead with better formulation for enhanced blast performance and penetration has already been developed and tried out . It's in series production now.

And another even more lethal warhead is being developed for the Brahmos variant with a 0 degree /90 degree angle of impact capability .

 

[Arihant Roy]

Bro What is the height you took for SPICE-2000 launch? It is I guess 33,000 feet from where Indian Airforce dis the airstrike in Balakot last year.

I took it even higher. For a 60 km range you need to launch Brahmos from 40000+ feet .

The PE is actually converted to KE. The speed just before impact matters. It's somehwere in the 400-500 km/hr range . May be off by 10s of kms but it's close to this.

 

[Arihant Roy]

Sure, I will wait for you to prove that instead of making yet another empty post.

Already proved my point.
Looks like you are not from a science or tech background .

Have you actually calculated what is the destructive potential of 900 kgs of TNT?

Considering 2.175 million joule per kg TNT it's 652.5 million joules for Brahmos and 1957 million joules for Spice.

 

[Arihant Roy]

Why instead of reading a perfectly clear post do you continue to write stupid stuff?

Where the hell did I say that KE of SPICE 2000 is greater than Brahmos? Hallucinating much?

I have said in #2426



Assuming that both brahmos and spice warheads contain TNT, the explosive energy of SPICE 2000 will be way greater than the KE difference between brahmos and SPICE. How is it not clear from the numbers?

According to your calculations KE of brahmos is around 694 million joules.
Assuming that it carries TNT warhead, its explosive energy would be 300*1000*4000=1200 million joules (1 gm of TNT results in 4000 joules)
This means that total energy released on brahmos strike is 1200+694=1894 million joules

Even if we assume that SPICE has KE of zero, its explosive energy will be 900*1000*4000=3600 million joules.

So SPICE will cause more destruction. What is so difficult to understand here?


You do exactly that. I just proved it.

Nope. Haven't proved zilch.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.drdo.gov.in/sites/default/files/inline-files/velocity_of_detonation_and_high_blast_03L.pdf

Kindly find out the explosive potential of HEMEX or the actual quantity of explosives used . The packing density and stuff....

 

[Defcon 1]

Already proved my point.
Looks like you are not from a science or tech background .

Have you actually calculated what is the destructive potential of 900 kgs of TNT?

Considering 2.175 million joule per kg TNT it's 652.5 million joules for Brahmos and 1957 million joules for Spice.

Yes you are the only moron here from science or tech background.

Yes I did calculate the destructive potential of TNT

Its not 2.175 million joule per kg but 4.184 million joules per kg moron. Here is the source, suck on it.

TNT equivalent - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Arihant Roy]

Why instead of reading a perfectly clear post do you continue to write stupid stuff?

Where the hell did I say that KE of SPICE 2000 is greater than Brahmos? Hallucinating much?

I have said in #2426



Assuming that both brahmos and spice warheads contain TNT, the explosive energy of SPICE 2000 will be way greater than the KE difference between brahmos and SPICE. How is it not clear from the numbers?

According to your calculations KE of brahmos is around 694 million joules.
Assuming that it carries TNT warhead, its explosive energy would be 300*1000*4000=1200 million joules (1 gm of TNT results in 4000 joules)
This means that total energy released on brahmos strike is 1200+694=1894 million joules

Even if we assume that SPICE has KE of zero, its explosive energy will be 900*1000*4000=3600 million joules.

So SPICE will cause more destruction. What is so difficult to understand here?


You do exactly that. I just proved it.

You haven't proved anything .

Your warhead destruction potential in joules is off the mark by 1000s of km.

Brahmos is more destructive than Spice .

Just because you have a 900 kg warhead doesn't mean 900 kg od TNT is packed in it. Many things to consider here.

Kindly do read up on the warhead of Brahmos before blurting out stuff. The formulation used and etc.

 

[Arihant Roy]

Yes you are the only moron here from science or tech background.

Yes I did calculate the destructive potential of TNT

Its not 2.175 million joule per kg but 4.184 million joules per kg moron. Here is the source, suck on it.

TNT equivalent - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

You seem to be from Rahul Gandhi's University of science .

https://fas.org/man/dod-101/navy/do...=1 kg of TNT releases 2.175 x 106 J of energy.

Go through it before calling other names.

 

[Arihant Roy]

Yes you are the only moron here from science or tech background.

Yes I did calculate the destructive potential of TNT

Its not 2.175 million joule per kg but 4.184 million joules per kg moron. Here is the source, suck on it.

TNT equivalent - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Unlike kids, I don't use Wikipedia figures . Am not a two bit punk.

And kindly check out the warhead used and the formulation of Brahmos warhead.

 

[Arihant Roy]

Sure, I will wait for you to prove that instead of making yet another empty post.

Instead of being a thoroughbred ignorant fella with superficial knowledge, kindly go through it. You may learn a thing or two about VOD, blast performance, packing density .

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...FjAAegQIAhAB&usg=AOvVaw0sPqdxGb8S2XxvGan7P8GK

 

[Arihant Roy]

If the structure is adequately hardened, the high explosive warhead of Spice wouldn't be able to penetrate it. The blast won't do much if the warhead isn't able to penetrate through cleanly.

Now if I were to use the penetrator variant of Spice 2000 with a 907 kg hardened warhead , it would penetrate the building and blast within causing sharpnel damage and killing people. The bomb wouldn't bring the building or structure down. As we have seen in Jaba top, Balakot .

Had a Brahmos been used, that structure wouldn't have been standing . Sat imagery would show a demolished building or just some pillars and a heap of rubble.

END OF STORY.

With Brahmos's PCB warhead , I get the best of both worlds. Penetration cum absolute destruction. With Spice I need to change warheads depending on the target set. And even then, the building is still standing.

PS- Do as much surfing as you want. Take your time. You won't find anything to back you up.

As they say, ignorance is bliss.

 

[Defcon 1]

You seem to be from Rahul Gandhi's University of science .

https://fas.org/man/dod-101/navy/docs/es310/chemstry/chemstry.htm#:~:text=1 kg of TNT releases 2.175 x 106 J of energy.

Go through it before calling other names.

This is funny. I am loving it. Its very clear now that who is from Rahul Gandhi's university of science.

Do you even understand what are you arguing about? Its the definition of TNT equivalent, its a standard term dude, used world over to measure the effectiveness of explosives, and the accepted value world over is 1 gm of TNT equivalent=4184 joules.

There are even calculators for this, look here:

Ton Of TNT. Conversion Chart / Energy Converter, TNT Energy Equivalent

Energy Converter / TNT Energy Equivalent / Ton Of TNT Online converter page for a specific unit. Here you can make instant conversion from this unit to all other compatible units.

www.convert-me.com

Now can I call you names, moron?

PS: Another source for definition of TNT equivalent:

http://theory.caltech.edu/~kapustin/karandash/w5.pdf

PS2: Here is dear DRDO defining it for you

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwiyxcOesLntAhVFjeYKHWd8DsA4FBAWMAB6BAgGEAI&url=https%3A%2F%2Fpublications.drdo.gov.in%2Fojs%2Findex.php%2Fdsj%2Farticle%2Fview%2F6851%2F4538&usg=AOvVaw2etPoJLft5b59XZlPixZ0W

 

[Defcon 1]

Instead of being a thoroughbred ignorant fella with superficial knowledge, kindly go through it. You may learn a thing or two about VOD, blast performance, packing density .

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...FjAAegQIAhAB&usg=AOvVaw0sPqdxGb8S2XxvGan7P8GK

You were going to prove something about the actual weight of explosives in the warhead right? Please ping me when you do instead of posting irrelevant links.

 

[Defcon 1]

If the structure is adequately hardened, the high explosive warhead of Spice wouldn't be able to penetrate it. The blast won't do much if the warhead isn't able to penetrate through cleanly.

Now if I were to use the penetrator variant of Spice 2000 with a 907 kg hardened warhead , it would penetrate the building and blast within causing sharpnel damage and killing people. The bomb wouldn't bring the building or structure down. As we have seen in Jaba top, Balakot .

Had a Brahmos been used, that structure wouldn't have been standing . Sat imagery would show a demolished building or just some pillars and a heap of rubble.

END OF STORY.

With Brahmos's PCB warhead , I get the best of both worlds. Penetration cum absolute destruction. With Spice I need to change warheads depending on the target set. And even then, the building is still standing.

PS- Do as much surfing as you want. Take your time. You won't find anything to back you up.

As they say, ignorance is bliss.

I don't need to do any surfing when you continue to make these funny posts.
High KE is not a requirement for demolishing a building, SPICE also has a variant which does that without requiring mach 2.8 speed. It was told by the IAF chief himself. Are you going to prove him a liar too?

 

[Arihant Roy]

This is funny. I am loving it. Its very clear now that who is from Rahul Gandhi's university of science.

Do you even understand what are you arguing about? Its the definition of TNT equivalent, its a standard term dude, used world over to measure the effectiveness of explosives, and the accepted value world over is 1 gm of TNT equivalent=4184 joules.

There are even calculators for this, look here:

Ton Of TNT. Conversion Chart / Energy Converter, TNT Energy Equivalent

Energy Converter / TNT Energy Equivalent / Ton Of TNT Online converter page for a specific unit. Here you can make instant conversion from this unit to all other compatible units.

www.convert-me.com

Now can I call you names, moron?

PS: Another source for definition of TNT equivalent:

http://theory.caltech.edu/~kapustin/karandash/w5.pdf

PS2: Here is dear DRDO defining it for you

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwiyxcOesLntAhVFjeYKHWd8DsA4FBAWMAB6BAgGEAI&url=https%3A%2F%2Fpublications.drdo.gov.in%2Fojs%2Findex.php%2Fdsj%2Farticle%2Fview%2F6851%2F4538&usg=AOvVaw2etPoJLft5b59XZlPixZ0W

Call me whatever you want . It hardly matters.

Only a person with Rahul Gandhi's level of IQ will say that a Spice does more damage than a Brahmos.

 

[Defcon 1]

Call me whatever you want . It hardly matters.

Only a person with Rahul Gandhi's level of IQ will say that a Spice does more damage than a Brahmos.

Did you manage to find what TNT equivalent is?

 

[Arihant Roy]

You were going to prove something about the actual weight of explosives in the warhead right? Please ping me when you do instead of posting irrelevant links.

I don't need to do any surfing when you continue to make these funny posts.
High KE is not a requirement for demolishing a building, SPICE also has a variant which does that without requiring mach 2.8 speed. It was told by the IAF chief himself. Are you going to prove him a liar too?

Nope I was not. That doc contained the relevant part. If you are unable to discern wheat from chaff, it's your prob. Not mine .

That light yellow portion is the kerosene fuel for the sustainer motors. The fuel combined with the solid booster doesn't weigh anywhere near 1.5 tons.