BrahMos Cruise Missile

Arihant Roy

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Because its more effective. SPICE is way more accurate and destructive than Brahmos



Air launched brahmos wasn't inducted till balakot, maybe an option in future cases, but for surgical strikes, no better weapon than SPICE.
You are wrong.

BrahMos is an order of times more destructive than Spice . There's something called physics. And kinematics. Plus you have a 200-300 kg warhead .

Brahmos blk3 has a 5-6 m CEP. The latest ones now being tested have a even lower CEP matching Spice 2000 levels.

Spice was used because we wanted low no of casualties. If it was a kill all destroy all mission, Brahmos would have been used .
 

samsaptaka

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You are wrong.

BrahMos is an order of times more destructive than Spice . There's something called physics. And kinematics. Plus you have a 200-300 kg warhead .

Brahmos blk3 has a 5-6 m CEP. The latest ones now being tested have a even lower CEP matching Spice 2000 levels.

Spice was used because we wanted low no of casualties. If it was a kill all destroy all mission, Brahmos would have been used .
Absolutely, SPiCe is ineffective in putting the fear of wrath into the yahoos. We need a louder bang and more damage to make them shake in their pyjamas
 

Defcon 1

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You are wrong.

BrahMos is an order of times more destructive than Spice . There's something called physics. And kinematics. Plus you have a 200-300 kg warhead .
And SPICE warhead is 900 KG. What is your point?
And the physics and kinematics you are talking about, have you actually done some calculation to prove that brahmos is more destructive or are you simply saying whatever comes to your mind?

Brahmos blk3 has a 5-6 m CEP. The latest ones now being tested have a even lower CEP matching Spice 2000 levels.
And SPICE 2000 has 3m CEP
 
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Defcon 1

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He means sheer kinetic energy.
If he did some calculations he would know that sheer kinetic energy will not compensate for difference in explosive energy.

Some rough calculations will shown that kinetic energy will only amount for KE of around 800 million joule where as difference of 600 kg in warhead weight will result in different of 2.4 billion joules, assuming warhead is TNT. Therefore, the SPICE 2000 strike will still result in an additional 1.6 billion joules of energy being expended.
 
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Cruise missile

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If he did some calculations he would know that sheer kinetic will not compensate for difference in explosive energy.

Some rough calculations will shown that kinetic energy will only amount for KE of around 800 million joules at launch of brahmos, where as difference of 600 kg in warhead weight will result in different of 2.4 billion joules, assuming warhead is TNT. Therefore, the SPICE 2000 strike will still result in an additional 1.6 billion joules of energy being expended.
What if we combine both explosive and KE together.
 

maximus777

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Just strike with the biggest stick (spice/brahmos/hammer whatever) and don't publicize. GHQ should get the drift. If they still are up to bakchodi hit GHQ next time and once again dont publicize. That should have the desired effect. Watch handsome on TV with aman and "aapne ghabrana nahi hai" messages after that.
 

samsaptaka

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once again dont publicize.
We should publicize, but only much later, like how Israel does. Otherwise the negative impact on our public is bad. People should feel proud that they belong to such a nation which destroys its enemies. Otherwise we will forever be seen as a weak nation.
 

Killbot

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You are wrong.

BrahMos is an order of times more destructive than Spice . There's something called physics. And kinematics. Plus you have a 200-300 kg warhead .

Brahmos blk3 has a 5-6 m CEP. The latest ones now being tested have a even lower CEP matching Spice 2000 levels.

Spice was used because we wanted low no of casualties. If it was a kill all destroy all mission, Brahmos would have been used .
Norbhay out of a ship would be the most practical option in my opinion. It is cheap, fairly stealthy and has a 300 kg warhead. And a 1000km range. It may not do as much damage on impact as beahmos, but it certainly will kill some terrorists. Especially with thermobaric warhead.
 

Killbot

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We should publicize, but only much later, like how Israel does. Otherwise the negative impact on our public is bad. People should feel proud that they belong to such a nation which destroys its enemies. Otherwise we will forever be seen as a weak nation.
Don't publicize entirely... Say there was a pre emptive strike on enemy position. Nothing more.
 

Kumata

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Spice was used because we wanted low no of casualties. If it was a kill all destroy all mission, Brahmos would have been used .
Cost my friend. Yahoos are not worth all the fuel mirages used up to deliver them.. anything above to send them to 72 hoors is a bonus...
 

ezsasa

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Just a thought..

Looks like Brahmos-NG (mini) is going to be delayed, as they are awaiting IAF inputs.

why not develop land based Brahmos NG?

Since Brahmos NG range is supposedly 290 km, and it is half the weight as Brahmos, one TEL can carry 5-6 missiles instead of 3. Brahmos regiments will carry both, NG will be used for sub 300km and regular can be used for 400 km + ranges.
 

Arihant Roy

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And SPICE warhead is 900 KG. What is your point?
And the physics and kinematics you are talking about, have you actually done some calculation to prove that brahmos is more destructive or are you simply saying whatever comes to your mind?


And SPICE 2000 has 3m CEP
Are you aware of the cep figures of the latest tranche of Brahmos ?
And when it comes to Brahmos even a sub 10 metre CEP of the block 2 would do. Since the missile will bring down the whole building and structure.

Or the KE and momentum of a 3 ton missile with a 300 kg warhead hitting a target at Mach 2.8?

Are you deliberately being obtuse ??
 

Arihant Roy

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Cost my friend. Yahoos are not worth all the fuel mirages used up to deliver them.. anything above to send them to 72 hoors is a bonus...
Cost is definitely a factor. But the real consideration was low collateral damage.

Do watch ACM Dhanoa's interviews .
 

Defcon 1

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Or the KE and momentum of a 3 ton missile with a 300 kg warhead hitting a target at Mach 2.8?
I did calculate the KE (assuming mach 3 speed and 1.5 tonne missile at the time of impact assuming a fuel fraction of 50%) and wrote it at 800 million joules. Maybe you forgot to read that post. Even that KE will not be enough to compensate for higher warhead weight of SPICE 2000 (assuming TNT as the explosive in the warhead)

If you disagree with that calculation, I would like to see your own numbers.

Are you deliberately being obtuse ??
I am being very very clear. You are the one who refuses to put any numbers or links but refuses to believe your words that brahmos has more destructive power than SPICE 2000 as if they are gospel.
 

Arihant Roy

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Brahmos KE: 800 Million joules
Warhead: 1200 million joules
Total: 2 billion joules

Spice 2000 warhead: 3.6 billion joules

Difference: 1.6 billion joules, spice wins
Brahmos KE: 800 Million joules
Warhead: 1200 million joules
Total: 2 billion joules

Spice 2000 warhead: 3.6 billion joules

Difference: 1.6 billion joules, spice wins
WRONG.


Let's talk about the KE part first.

For Spice 2000-

All up mass of ordnance including the warhead -1100 kg .

Terminal velocity just before hitting the target is in the order of 400-500 km per hour. Maybe even lower.
I will use 138.88 m/sec or 500 km/hr for the purpose of our calculation.


KE = 1/2 x 1100 kg x 138.88^2 m/s = 10,608,209.92 joules.


For Brahmos missile -

The missile weight just before hitting its target is muchhigher than 1.5 tons. Coz fuel fraction including the solid booster isn't 0.5. let's consider your figure of 1.5 tons as all up weight for the sake of argument and do a rough calculation.

The missile is travelling at Mach 2.8. which is 960.4 m/sec at sea level.

So

KE= 1/2 x 1500 kgx 960^2 m/s = 691,776,120 joules.

KE of Brahmos at 691,776,120 joules is much much higher than KE of Spice 2000 at 10,608,209.92 joules .


Brahmos uses a smaller 200-300 kg warhead but the explosive formulation used isn't the same as the one used in the vanilla warhead of Spice 2000. Spice is a kit to which we fit to our own warheads. The explosive power of Brahmos warhead in TNT is much higher per unit mass than the 900 kg warhead of Spice 2000

PS- I don't blurt out stuff untill I am absolutely sure of what I am saying.
 
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Arihant Roy

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Brahmos KE: 800 Million joules
Warhead: 1200 million joules
Total: 2 billion joules

Spice 2000 warhead: 3.6 billion joules

Difference: 1.6 billion joules, spice wins
And I will soon get back to you on the fuel fraction of Brahmos type of missiles. I mean ramjet ones .
I am certain Brahmos has a higher empty weight without its aviation grade Kerosene fuel and the booster assembly.
 

Arihant Roy

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Besides the warhead weight matric, what's important is the actual mass of explosives packed in the warhead. The packing density .

What is even more important is the velocity of detonation and blast performance .
And Brahmos warhead trumps Spice , Paveway , and even the ARDE 250 and 450 kg warhead in all metrics barring the actual mass.
 

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