AWACS will change Asia's military dynamics

[John]

Fed up of delays, India shops for non-Russian platforms

New Delhi:

In an articulation of India’s annoyance over nagging delays in several key defence acquisitions, New Delhi finally seems to have decided to reduce its dependence on Russia for military hardware. Two key upcoming acquisitions that Moscow would have liked to believe it had in the bag — the next batch of three aircraft for additional Airborne Early Warning and Control Systems (AWACS) and six refueling aircraft for the Air Force — are all set to be given to non Russian companies.

The signal was clear on Thursday morning at the induction ceremony of India’s first AWACS when an unusually vocal A K Antony publicly asked the Russian ambassador to ensure that defence equipment is delivered in time.

He also took on the Israeli ambassador for delays in the Phalcon AWACS that were delivered a year-and-a-half behind schedule. Russia, followed by Israel is one of the two biggest suppliers of military equipment to India.

Antony’s outburst against delays by Russia has been preceded by action from the Indian Air Force. A top official confirmed that in the follow on order for three additional AWACS, that is likely to be placed by 2012, the Russian IL 76 aircraft will be replaced by a different plane.
While the first three Israeli AWACS to be delivered by next year will be mounted on the Russian IL 76 aircraft, when the next order is placed, the aircraft used will either be the American Gulfstream or Brazilian Embraer jets.

“We will replace the IL 76 by a modern aircraft like the Gulfstream or Embraer. Both have an endurance of nine hours that is close to what the Russian aircraft has,” an official said.

While the ageing IL 76 is one concern, the real trouble for Russia seems to be its inability to deliver the aircraft on time for the AWACS deal that was signed in 2004. Sources said that Russia overshot its schedule for modernisation of the IL 76 aircraft with new engines and avionics, leading to the programme going back by a year-and-a-half.

Another deal that Moscow would have thought it had secured — additional refueling aircraft for the IAF — is also set to go the European Airbus 330 MRTT. This comes as a surprise as India’s current fleet of air-to-air refuelers are Russian IL 78 aircraft. It would have been easier to place a follow on order for the Russian tankers and would have been far easier to operate them as maintenance facilities already exist in the country.

However, while the Russian aircraft was also considered for the contract, the IAF has placed it below the Airbus in the crucial flight evaluations that decide the procurement. IAF says that the Airbus scored way above the Russian aircraft and has given it as its preference for the contract.

India’s reluctance to order additional Russian platforms comes from several delayed deals that have been impeding defence modernisation. While in the past, smaller delays were ignored, the experience with the Gorshkov aircraft carrier was the final coffin in the nail.

Besides delaying the delivery of the carrier by over four years — it was supposed to be inducted by 2008 — Russia surprised India by asking almost twice the agreed amount for refurbishing the warship.

:: Bharat-Rakshak.com - Indian Military News Headlines ::

nice it will mostly be like the Gulstream Eitam which the Issies already operate, needless to say ours will be more advanced. gr8 newz.

 

[p2prada]

Gorshkov aircraft carrier was the final coffin in the nail.

Hahahahaha!

 

[nitesh]

IAF, Phalcons and Net Centricity

New Delhi. There is a saying that the journey of a thousand miles begins with the first step, and the Indian Air Force’s first major step towards net centricity with links to ground stations from air to carry out aerial interceptions and control is about to begin with the induction of the first of three A-50E/ Phalcon Airborne Warning & Control Systems (AWACS) aircraft beginning May 2009.

The software of the onboard systems has already been mated to the modular IAF Command and Control computers as well as aircraft, aerostats and other assets.

Eventually, all the Indian assets, including those of the Navy and Army, should be networked for an integrated approach to threats.

Air Chief Marshal F H Major told India Strategic in a recent interview that the AWACS capability would be a big boost towards timely detection of hostile threats, including missiles, thereby enabling the Indian armed forces to appropriately respond to them.

“Besides the acquisition of the most capable combat assets available, we are laying down a robust secure network that will integrate all our sensors, weapons and operations centres so as to reduce the decision cycle and make our air and space operations more responsive and effective.”

IAF strategic airlift capability, tested first in the 1988 Operation Cactus to assist the government of Maldives survive a coup attempt. Last year, the transport aircraft as well as tankers were used to ferry personnel and equipment for the multi-nation Red Flag combat exercise in the US.

The Phalcon AWACS aircraft is based on four sensors, a very powerful radar, IFF, Electronic Support Measures/Electronic Intelligence (ESM/ELINT) and Communication Support Measures/Communication Intelligence (CSM/COMINT). A unique fusion technology continuously cross-relates the data gathered by all the sensors.

When one of the sensors reports detection, the system automatically initiates an active search of the complementary sensors, and it also has passive modes for intelligence gathering to build up electronic libraries.

India’s Centre for Air Borne Studies (CABS) at Bangalore has also progressed a rectangular, phased array radar with Tranmit/Receive switches. Displayed at Aero India, it will be mounted on Embraer- 145s from Brazil.

The Phalcon consists of EL/M-2075 AESA Lima and Sierra band radars which have triangular configuration and the three antenna arrays are mounted within a circular radome atop the fuselage. The beam is electronically-steered to provide all round 360-degree coverage, and the system has stations for up to 10 mission controllers who take responsibility for airspace surveillance and airborne interceptions.

This will be a totally new operational methodology for the IAF but the IAF pilots have had some experience of operating the similar system on board the E-3 sentry AWACS of the US Air Force in Cope India exercises and with France. BARCO of Belgium, which has set up manufacturing facilities in India and is the preferred supplier for displays even for the Indian Navy, has supplied the 20-inch AMLCDs for the mission management suite, with Tadiran Spectra LINK supplying the secure digital data links.

The pulse-Doppler radar with a Moving Target Indicator (MTI) for improved target detection provides overland coverage against aircraft targets around 230 km and can simultaneously handle over 50 targets.

The primary radar is conjoined with an Elbit Systems-supplied ELINT suite and SATCOMS and COMINT communications to transmit digital data in two-way data-linking protocols.

The facilities at IAF operation centres will be needed to hook up to ensure that there is seamless command and control during missions, leading to net centricity. This will take time before full operational capability (FOC) is achieved.

The satellite-based air tracking system GAGAN, which is being commissioned by Raytheon, with ground stations will have to be integrated in to the air management architecture, both for the Phalcons and the accompanying composite combat aircraft formations for offensive and defensive flight sorties. In due course, the Elta and IAI supplied Searcher and Heron Unmanned Aerial Vehicles (UAVs) with inputs and equipment pods in the IAF, and the EL/M-2090 Green Pine Early Warning (EW) and Fire Control (FC) radar for the DRDO’s anti ballistic missile defence system, based on the Prihvi Air Defence Interceptor will also need to be integrated.

The Indian Navy has moved forward and is set to award a contract for such a sea-based NCW system, as its own LINK II system is now operational in ships and aircraft. The LINK II system manufactured by Bharat Elcetroincs Ltd was showcased at Aero India.

The Phalcon radar has the capability to transmit a very short pulse to reduce the sea clutter and detect moving and stationary ships.

The electronic charts (maps) of the coast can be fed in to the Phalcon computer to automatically remove shoreline returns from the screen. The Phalcons would also be able to guide MiG-29K aircraft from the aircraft carrier INS Vikramditya or from shore to carry out anti-ship strikes and interceptions.

 

[SATISH]

Fed up of delays, India shops for non-Russian platforms

New Delhi:

In an articulation of India’s annoyance over nagging delays in several key defence acquisitions, New Delhi finally seems to have decided to reduce its dependence on Russia for military hardware. Two key upcoming acquisitions that Moscow would have liked to believe it had in the bag — the next batch of three aircraft for additional Airborne Early Warning and Control Systems (AWACS) and six refueling aircraft for the Air Force — are all set to be given to non Russian companies.

The signal was clear on Thursday morning at the induction ceremony of India’s first AWACS when an unusually vocal A K Antony publicly asked the Russian ambassador to ensure that defence equipment is delivered in time.

He also took on the Israeli ambassador for delays in the Phalcon AWACS that were delivered a year-and-a-half behind schedule. Russia, followed by Israel is one of the two biggest suppliers of military equipment to India.

Antony’s outburst against delays by Russia has been preceded by action from the Indian Air Force. A top official confirmed that in the follow on order for three additional AWACS, that is likely to be placed by 2012, the Russian IL 76 aircraft will be replaced by a different plane.
While the first three Israeli AWACS to be delivered by next year will be mounted on the Russian IL 76 aircraft, when the next order is placed, the aircraft used will either be the American Gulfstream or Brazilian Embraer jets.

“We will replace the IL 76 by a modern aircraft like the Gulfstream or Embraer. Both have an endurance of nine hours that is close to what the Russian aircraft has,” an official said.

While the ageing IL 76 is one concern, the real trouble for Russia seems to be its inability to deliver the aircraft on time for the AWACS deal that was signed in 2004. Sources said that Russia overshot its schedule for modernisation of the IL 76 aircraft with new engines and avionics, leading to the programme going back by a year-and-a-half.

Another deal that Moscow would have thought it had secured — additional refueling aircraft for the IAF — is also set to go the European Airbus 330 MRTT. This comes as a surprise as India’s current fleet of air-to-air refuelers are Russian IL 78 aircraft. It would have been easier to place a follow on order for the Russian tankers and would have been far easier to operate them as maintenance facilities already exist in the country.

However, while the Russian aircraft was also considered for the contract, the IAF has placed it below the Airbus in the crucial flight evaluations that decide the procurement. IAF says that the Airbus scored way above the Russian aircraft and has given it as its preference for the contract.

India’s reluctance to order additional Russian platforms comes from several delayed deals that have been impeding defence modernisation. While in the past, smaller delays were ignored, the experience with the Gorshkov aircraft carrier was the final coffin in the nail.

Besides delaying the delivery of the carrier by over four years — it was supposed to be inducted by 2008 — Russia surprised India by asking almost twice the agreed amount for refurbishing the warship.

:: Bharat-Rakshak.com - Indian Military News Headlines ::

nice it will mostly be like the Gulstream Eitam which the Issies already operate, needless to say ours will be more advanced. gr8 newz.

This news is pure BS. These a re just media speculations. Who will lose the only major country backing us in the P5? The media I think must be more responsible.

 

[NikSha]

This news is pure BS. These a re just media speculations. Who will lose the only major country backing us in the P5? The media I think must be more responsible.

So that only country will stop backing us up to further screw up their chances of not only earning big contracts in the future at all but screwing up their relations as well? I am sure they would rather improve their service over acting like little kids and crying over few lost contracts (even big ones). It's their own fault in the end, "friends" or not.

If this news is true, then bravo.

 

[LETHALFORCE]

Pak says Indian AWACS would trigger arms race - Yahoo! India News

Thu, May 28 06:16 PM



PTI
Pak says Indian AWACS would trigger arms race


Islamabad, May 28 (PTI) Pakistan today voiced concern over the acquisition of Airborne Warning And Control System (AWACS) aircraft by India and said it would counter the threat by inducting 500 American Beyond Visual Range (BVR) missiles. Claiming that induction of AWACS by India would trigger a new arms race in the subcontinent, Pakistan's Air chief Air Marshal Rao Qamar Suleman said Islamabad would match this capability by acquiring its own AWACS by September this year.

The Air chief told newsmen in Risalpur that Pakistan was also procuring more US-made F-16 fighter aircraft. Suleman was commenting on reports that India had inducted the first of its three Phalcon AWACS into the Indian Air Force.

Pakistan is proposing to buy a Swedish SAAB Ericsson AWACS, which however, have a limited range as compared to the Phalcons. The Air Chief said PAF was supporting the military in its ongoing operations in Swat and Malakand in NWFP. "PAF had destroyed several Taliban hideouts and caches of ammunition to pave the way for rapid advance by ground forces in Swat.

" Asked about whether Pakistan had capability to shoot down drones, Suleman said "definitely" and cited the shooting down of an Indian surveillance plane in 2002 near Lahore. PT

 

[LETHALFORCE]

Israel fueling arms race in South Asia

Israel fueling arms race in South Asia

India receives a delivery of its first Airborne Warning and Control System (AWACS) plane from Israel amid growing arms race between New Delhi and Islamabad.

The delivery is the first of three units that Israel Aerospace Industries agreed to sell to India as part of a 2004 deal. "The remaining two are expected to be inducted into the Indian Air Force by 2010," Indian Air Force Spokesman, Wing Commander T.K. Singha said.

Russian-made but packed with Israeli radar, is expected to have a bad omen for the arms race in the already insurgency-hit South Asia region.

The delivery aims to maintain India's air dominance over arch rival Pakistan and will also provide a deterrent to any threat from China on India's eastern frontier.

Pakistan has voiced concern over the acquisition of AWACS aircraft by India and said it would counter the threat by inducting 500 American beyond Visual Range (BVR) missiles.

Pakistan's Air chief Air Marshal Rao Qamar Suleman said on Thursday that induction of AWACS by India would trigger a new arms race in the subcontinent.

Suleman also added that Islamabad would match this capability by acquiring its own AWACS by September this year.

Pakistan and India have fought three wars since they secured independence from Britain in 1947.

Relations between the nuclear-armed neighbors have sunk to a new low after militants, allegedly belonging to the Pakistan-based Lashkar-e-Taiba (LeT) terrorist group, attacked several areas across the Indian port city of Mumbai in November 2008.

New Delhi and Beijing also fought a brief but bloody war over a border dispute in 1962.

China maintains close ties with Pakistan while New Delhi has expressed concerns over Beijing's military cooperation with Islamabad.

This is while senior Pakistani civilian and military officials have frequently accused Israel of plotting a suspected attack on its nuclear instillations.

Israel is considered as India's second-largest arms supplier after Russia since 2007. Tel Aviv is likely to grab the number one slot through a vast array of military agreements it has already signed with New Delhi.

India and Pakistan have also occasionally tested conventional and unconventional weapons since their independence.

Both neighbors have refused to sign the nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty (NPT) and other treaties that restrict developing or testing nuclear weapons.

New Delhi says it was unfair that international treaties only allowed United States, China, Russia, Britain and France to maintain the ultra-destructive weapons.

JR/DT

 

[kuku]

Running out of money, are you.
--------------------------------------------------
We have many more important areas to spend our money on, however the terrible condition of our region has forced many investments, and the military is required to secure economic growth.

 

[F-14]

:2guns::blum3:

Pak says Indian AWACS would trigger arms race - Yahoo! India News

Thu, May 28 06:16 PM



PTI
Pak says Indian AWACS would trigger arms race


Islamabad, May 28 (PTI) Pakistan today voiced concern over the acquisition of Airborne Warning And Control System (AWACS) aircraft by India and said it would counter the threat by inducting 500 American Beyond Visual Range (BVR) missiles. Claiming that induction of AWACS by India would trigger a new arms race in the subcontinent, Pakistan's Air chief Air Marshal Rao Qamar Suleman said Islamabad would match this capability by acquiring its own AWACS by September this year.

The Air chief told newsmen in Risalpur that Pakistan was also procuring more US-made F-16 fighter aircraft. Suleman was commenting on reports that India had inducted the first of its three Phalcon AWACS into the Indian Air Force.

Pakistan is proposing to buy a Swedish SAAB Ericsson AWACS, which however, have a limited range as compared to the Phalcon

they can smoke the 500 AIM 120's at Jhinna's memorial ho god is there any end to the PAF's halucinations :bye:

 

[jackprince]

The fools think it is everything about them. I believe India's latest weaponization has everything to do with China, when dealing with Pak comes as a bonus. Since '90s India has gone far ahead than Pak that Pak can only dream about catching up with pak economy in shambles and populace in religious frenzy.

 

[F-14]

“In Modern warfare those who keep their information flow Intact shall win the Battle"

and the AWACS is just the latest in the line of C2I upgrades that our forces are going through

 

[vijaytripoli]

Phalcon price hike
OUR SPECIAL CORRESPONDENT
Phalcon: Costlier by the day

New Delhi, May 26: Israel has hiked the price for the Phalcon airborne warning and control centres by a third after the Indian Air Force opened negotiations to order three more systems.

The first of the systems mounted on a Russian Ilyushin-76 landed in Delhi today after a delay of about 18 months, and is set to be formally inducted into the Indian Air Force on Thursday.

Three Phalcon AWACS were contracted by the IAF in 2004 in a tripartite deal involving Russia, which was to supply the aircraft, Israel, which mounted the systems, and India.

The schedule went awry, first, because the delivery of the aircraft to Israel was delayed and then because of problems in integrating the Israeli systems to the Russian platform. The deal was worth $1.1 billion.

The delivery of the remaining two aircraft of the 2004 deal is likely only in 2004.

Air Force sources said the additional three Phalcons being negotiated should be inducted by 2012. But the price negotiations are taking time and even though the follow-on order means that much of the bureaucratic red tape will be bypassed, the signing of the contract is still some weeks away.

Now, the Israelis have hiked their charges and that would take the cost to more than $1.43 billion (Rs 6,800 crore approximately). If the Russians too demand higher costs for the aircraft, the negotiations could take even longer.

The AWACS are designed to function as a super command and control centre in wartime. The induction of the system into the IAF gives a distinct technological advantage to the force over the Pakistani Air Force.

In its belly the aircraft holds 12 workstations that control radar, electronic intelligence and surveillance systems and communication equipment capable of tracking 60 targets simultaneously about 400km inside enemy territory both on the ground and in the air.
http://www.telegraphindia.com/1090527/jsp/...ry_11025576.jsp

 

[vijaytripoli]

IAI ELTA SYSTEM in WHICH INDIA may BE interested!
http://www.iai.co.il/sip_storage/files/1/33021.pdf
chau

 

[Vinod2070]

Phalcon price hike
OUR SPECIAL CORRESPONDENT
Phalcon: Costlier by the day

New Delhi, May 26: Israel has hiked the price for the Phalcon airborne warning and control centres by a third after the Indian Air Force opened negotiations to order three more systems.

The first of the systems mounted on a Russian Ilyushin-76 landed in Delhi today after a delay of about 18 months, and is set to be formally inducted into the Indian Air Force on Thursday.

Three Phalcon AWACS were contracted by the IAF in 2004 in a tripartite deal involving Russia, which was to supply the aircraft, Israel, which mounted the systems, and India.

The schedule went awry, first, because the delivery of the aircraft to Israel was delayed and then because of problems in integrating the Israeli systems to the Russian platform. The deal was worth $1.1 billion.

The delivery of the remaining two aircraft of the 2004 deal is likely only in 2004.

Air Force sources said the additional three Phalcons being negotiated should be inducted by 2012. But the price negotiations are taking time and even though the follow-on order means that much of the bureaucratic red tape will be bypassed, the signing of the contract is still some weeks away.

Now, the Israelis have hiked their charges and that would take the cost to more than $1.43 billion (Rs 6,800 crore approximately). If the Russians too demand higher costs for the aircraft, the negotiations could take even longer.

The AWACS are designed to function as a super command and control centre in wartime. The induction of the system into the IAF gives a distinct technological advantage to the force over the Pakistani Air Force.

In its belly the aircraft holds 12 workstations that control radar, electronic intelligence and surveillance systems and communication equipment capable of tracking 60 targets simultaneously about 400km inside enemy territory both on the ground and in the air.
http://www.telegraphindia.com/1090527/jsp/...ry_11025576.jsp

I read somewhere that India was already paying much more than what China had offered to pay for the same AWACS earlier. While they are sure welcome addition, we should not let the Israelis rip us in this manner. They have to explain why the costs are more when it should now actually be less because of the increased scale. There is no R&D effort involved now, they just have to repeat what has already been done at our expense.

If we are not satisfied with the reasons, India should focus on the indigenous efforts in this field, though it may be less advanced. The same kind of money will give us better returns in future and reduce dependence on third countries.

 

[nitesh]

I read somewhere that India was already paying much more than what China had offered to pay for the same AWACS earlier. While they are sure welcome addition, we should not let the Israelis rip us in this manner. They have to explain why the costs are more when it should now actually be less because of the increased scale. There is no R&D effort involved now, they just have to repeat what has already been done at our expense.

If we are not satisfied with the reasons, India should focus on the indigenous efforts in this field, though it may be less advanced. The same kind of money will give us better returns in future and reduce dependence on third countries.

Vinod the capabilities of AWACS is closely guarded secret. Also this is deal cost heck even the IL 76 is customized according to IAF specifications. Do you know what is the comparison between the version offered the PLAF and IAF. Without tknowing this (which we will not know ) Just shooting off the statements will be futile. India is working on it's own version of AWACS

 

[youngindian]

right nitesh ji no to forget that israel has provided world class weapons to us which help us to counter china as well as pakistan

 

[F-14]

I have a feeling that we are going for the IAI CAWACS Mounted on a A-310 or Boeing 737 platform there is some thing more to this then meets the eyes guys lets wait and watch

 

[Vinod2070]

Vinod the capabilities of AWACS is closely guarded secret. Also this is deal cost heck even the IL 76 is customized according to IAF specifications. Do you know what is the comparison between the version offered the PLAF and IAF. Without tknowing this (which we will not know ) Just shooting off the statements will be futile.

Well, I am not too sure but the little that I have read suggests that it was the same version. Do let me know the differences. I read that the cost offered to China was a fraction of what was offered to India (one third?).

India is working on it's own version of AWACS

Yes, that is what I meant when I said that we should accelerate this effort and not allow anyone to rip us.

 

[Vinod2070]

right nitesh ji no to forget that israel has provided world class weapons to us which help us to counter china as well as pakistan

That is true but let's remember that it is a commercial relationship above all. We help them sustain their defense industry and are their largest customer.

As a supplier, you can't afford to annoy your most valued customer, especially if he has other places to go to.

All I meant was that we should ask them to justify the price increase. It should not be just because they feel that we are locked to their platform now and they can rip us at will.

 

[nitesh]

Well, I am not too sure but the little that I have read suggests that it was the same version. Do let me know the differences. I read that the cost offered to China was a fraction of what was offered to India (one third?).

Vinod the details are not known in public domain. Just an example IL 76 is with newer engine as IAF wanted. The "chapati shape " is also customization required by IAF. Interlinking it with existing assets all are included in costs.
(Please post the source of your reading)

Yes, that is what I meant when I said that we should accelerate this effort and not allow anyone to rip us.

Vinod check the post 118 it explains a lot