Astra BVRAAM

[dude00720]

No bro I know the reality because I work in DRDO. Unlike most people here who are far from reality.

Do you think, you're the only one who works in drdo? btw, which dvision, which location? In drdo everything is compartmentalised. You spoke sometime back, that your family is all military. Your brother is in Airforce. Do you know how many pilots have flown the tejas? How hard do you think, it will be to figure out the names?

Which college did you study, to get into drdo? What was your specialisation? Are u a grad or a post-grad?.

 

[WARREN SS]

That's exactly what I was saying to Warren but he insists on that Tejas IOC can fire BVR too ...

read official Briefing by Mod
which talking about Squadron 45 flying
Which are IOC-2

It's Clearly mentioned That Air worthiness
Centre given Derby go ahead

You can add Missile into LCA with minor modification in Software because it's already integrated in Platform through LSP's

These modifications are Not Under HAL technical wing

But IAF engineers will do these modifications
As LCA is now operational

It's not very major hardware modification like adding Refueler into nose which is HAL job

IAF time to time test new missiles in IAF fighters
They recently did user trials of new version of RVV-MD &R-37 in MKI's
All software Updates done by IAF tech wing themselves

During Kargil war IAF integrated smart LGB munitions into mirage-2000 in very short time for
Bombing tiger hill

 

[AmoghaVarsha]

This news of Lca integrating I derby ER isnt confirmed.

Is I Derby ER integrated on any Israeli plane?

Sent from my HD1901 using Tapatalk

 

[B0seRaoMenonModi]

I never said that I work on Tejas.. That would be way out of my league dude.. assumption is the mother of all failures. and I never said that DRDO products are bad. I only said that Tejas IOC aren't BVR capable as of now and only Tejas FOC can fire BVR missiles..

I don't appreciate fan boys either and don't doubt you but saying I have some inside source that's unsubstantiated brings down the integrity of the discussion.

Sorry

 

[Flying Dagger]

I know there is problem, IAF still doesn't trust LCA MK1, it has also never been tested in real situation, other wise the sqn which is deployed in south would have been deployed in Rajasthan or Punjab. Hope things get sorted out because we can't afford PAF giving us stale mate or equal resistance. We have to be more swift and deadly.

Close to 50 pilots are getting trained on in that base.. and batch of 100s is getting prepared for it.

IAF is exploring the Tejas right now. It takes time to master an aircraft.. to knownits limitations and overcome then.. you don't send a newly formed squadron of a new fighter aircraft on front base.. unless it's do or die..

Tejas is meant to provide us numbers.. and point defence Rafale and Sukhoi will get us the edge..

 

[AnantS]

People forget that new Sukhoi MKI were also first stationed in Lohegaon, Pune - for IAF to get itself acquainted and also master new aircraft. Not to mention HAL Nasik where Sukhoi's were being manufactured was in close proximity to Pune.

Its same with LCA.

 

[abhay rajput]

read official Briefing by Mod
which talking about Squadron 45 flying
Which are IOC-2

It's Clearly mentioned That Air worthiness
Centre given Derby go ahead

You can add Missile into LCA with minor modification in Software because it's already integrated in Platform through LSP's

These modifications are Not Under HAL technical wing

But IAF engineers will do these modifications
As LCA is now operational

It's not very major hardware modification like adding Refueler into nose which is HAL job

IAF time to time test new missiles in IAF fighters
They recently did user trials of new version of RVV-MD &R-37 in MKI's
All software Updates done by IAF tech wing themselves

During Kargil war IAF integrated smart LGB munitions into mirage-2000 in very short time for
Bombing tiger hill

each LSP is different from the previous ones . its not the same both at the hardware and software level, sometimes just minor modifications but still not the same.
I am pretty sure that ioc tejas cant fire bvr missiles as of now.. modifications will be done but it hasnt happen yet. after that take few months for testing .. like su30mki - they bought missiles last year and iaf has now made operational those missiles along with sap518 jamming pod on wingtips. (sometimes you wonder what IAF wants because russia proposes that in 2009) . And you are right about adding missiles but you need to change many things along with flight controls. and integrtion is not easy. in kargil israeli helped us in integratiion, even then after 20 years later IAF came to conclusion that integrtion should be done by OEM only.. because one spice failed to launch due to integration problems and god knows whats was the problem with crystal maze.. so dont think its plug and play .. lets just agree to disagree on this topic ;-)

 

[Assassin 2.0]

ER and Astra Mk1 to replace Russian-made Vympel R-77 across entire Su-30MKI fleet





Published March 10, 2020 | By admin SOURCE: IDRW NEWS NETWORK The Indian Air Force (IAF) is planning to its integration to its entire fleet of 272 Su-30MKI fleets with indigenously developed Astra Mk1 Beyond Visual range air to air missile starting from 2022 onwards and also actively considering placing orders for the upgraded Rafael Advanced Defense Systems developed I-Derby ER (extended range) beyond-visual-range air-to-air missile (BVRAAM) with range of 100km. Astra Mk1 and I-Derby ER both have a range of over 100km and both will compliment each other when integrated into Su-30MKI fleet after aging Russian-made Vympel R-77 (AA-12 ‘Adder’) AAMs are phased out of service due to lack of upgrades to the missile system over the years and poor shelf lives. In an audit report by the Comptroller and Auditor General (CAG) has noted that nearly half the missiles tested either did not home in on targets during evaluations or failed ground tests because they were aging much before their shelf lives. India had procured over 2000 Vympel R-77 for its Su-30 MKIs, MiG-29s, and MiG-21 Bisons fleet but plans are in the fold to replace them entirely instead of procuring more of the same missiles since Russia has failed to rectify its faults. Air Chief Marshal Rakesh Kumar Singh Bhadauria has confirmed that Astra Mk1 is at par with AIM-120C-5 AMRAAM missiles which Pakistan Air Force (PAF) used in its failed attempts to shoot down a Sukhoi-30MKI last year and lack of firing clearance from Vympel R-77 could have contributed to this decision of arming entire Su-30MKI fleet with I-Derby ER and Astra Mk1 Medium-range air-to-air range-Missile.


( this clears the doubt if IAF is thinking to arm su-30 with Astra and I-Derby this clearly shows that ASTRAMK1 is superior to R-77.and i do think possibility of such update exists because IAF and HAL is keen to update su-30 with more indigenous Equipments. And isreali will not turn down order worth of millions.)

 

[fire starter]

Published March 10, 2020 | By admin SOURCE: IDRW NEWS NETWORK The Indian Air Force (IAF) is planning to its integration to its entire fleet of 272 Su-30MKI fleets with indigenously developed Astra Mk1 Beyond Visual range air to air missile starting from 2022 onwards and also actively considering placing orders for the upgraded Rafael Advanced Defense Systems developed I-Derby ER (extended range) beyond-visual-range air-to-air missile (BVRAAM) with range of 100km. Astra Mk1 and I-Derby ER both have a range of over 100km and both will compliment each other when integrated into Su-30MKI fleet after aging Russian-made Vympel R-77 (AA-12 ‘Adder’) AAMs are phased out of service due to lack of upgrades to the missile system over the years and poor shelf lives. In an audit report by the Comptroller and Auditor General (CAG) has noted that nearly half the missiles tested either did not home in on targets during evaluations or failed ground tests because they were aging much before their shelf lives. India had procured over 2000 Vympel R-77 for its Su-30 MKIs, MiG-29s, and MiG-21 Bisons fleet but plans are in the fold to replace them entirely instead of procuring more of the same missiles since Russia has failed to rectify its faults. Air Chief Marshal Rakesh Kumar Singh Bhadauria has confirmed that Astra Mk1 is at par with AIM-120C-5 AMRAAM missiles which Pakistan Air Force (PAF) used in its failed attempts to shoot down a Sukhoi-30MKI last year and lack of firing clearance from Vympel R-77 could have contributed to this decision of arming entire Su-30MKI fleet with I-Derby ER and Astra Mk1 Medium-range air-to-air range-Missile.


( this clears the doubt if IAF is thinking to arm su-30 with Astra and I-Derby this clearly shows that ASTRAMK1 is superior to R-77.and i do think possibility of such update exists because IAF and HAL is keen to update su-30 with more indigenous Equipments. And isreali will not turn down order worth of millions.)[/QUOTE]







good just replace all junks.. Astra and I derby will be effective combo. I think I derby was selected though having same range bcz it will diversify the arsenal.

 

[Flying Dagger]

ER and Astra Mk1 to replace Russian-made Vympel R-77 across entire Su-30MKI fleet





Published March 10, 2020 | By admin SOURCE: IDRW NEWS NETWORK The Indian Air Force (IAF) is planning to its integration to its entire fleet of 272 Su-30MKI fleets with indigenously developed Astra Mk1 Beyond Visual range air to air missile starting from 2022 onwards and also actively considering placing orders for the upgraded Rafael Advanced Defense Systems developed I-Derby ER (extended range) beyond-visual-range air-to-air missile (BVRAAM) with range of 100km. Astra Mk1 and I-Derby ER both have a range of over 100km and both will compliment each other when integrated into Su-30MKI fleet after aging Russian-made Vympel R-77 (AA-12 ‘Adder’) AAMs are phased out of service due to lack of upgrades to the missile system over the years and poor shelf lives. In an audit report by the Comptroller and Auditor General (CAG) has noted that nearly half the missiles tested either did not home in on targets during evaluations or failed ground tests because they were aging much before their shelf lives. India had procured over 2000 Vympel R-77 for its Su-30 MKIs, MiG-29s, and MiG-21 Bisons fleet but plans are in the fold to replace them entirely instead of procuring more of the same missiles since Russia has failed to rectify its faults. Air Chief Marshal Rakesh Kumar Singh Bhadauria has confirmed that Astra Mk1 is at par with AIM-120C-5 AMRAAM missiles which Pakistan Air Force (PAF) used in its failed attempts to shoot down a Sukhoi-30MKI last year and lack of firing clearance from Vympel R-77 could have contributed to this decision of arming entire Su-30MKI fleet with I-Derby ER and Astra Mk1 Medium-range air-to-air range-Missile.


( this clears the doubt if IAF is thinking to arm su-30 with Astra and I-Derby this clearly shows that ASTRAMK1 is superior to R-77.and i do think possibility of such update exists because IAF and HAL is keen to update su-30 with more indigenous Equipments. And isreali will not turn down order worth of millions.)

For sure Astra will be integrated in all platforms there was no doubt abt it. Derby ER integration is something which might have some issues.. in any case.. we have bought 700 russian missiles recently which include 300 R 73M2 IR and 400 R-77-1 and there are longer range russian missiles available too. It will take time till all platforms are integrated with Derby ER and main advantage I see is cost and flexibility.

Also we will need Russians too to do this.. we will not be doing it without them being aware of it. I hope it's been discussed with them too.

The upgraded new version of R-77-1 and R-77-M have more range and are much advanced than anything PAF have. Derby ER is certainly better than R-77-1 but then the other variant R-77-m have more range.

Python or IRIS T are two IR missile which Iwish had made in instead of ASRAAM .

But with R-73 M2 ASRAAM MICA IR in inventory IAF sure knows which one is better for them.

What I have understood so far is Astra mk1 was always a R-77 equivalent and to do better than it.

I wonder why it's IR version is still not on the menu.. hopefully soon.

 

[AUSTERLITZ]

For sure Astra will be integrated in all platforms there was no doubt abt it. Derby ER integration is something which might have some issues.. in any case.. we have bought 700 russian missiles recently which include 300 R 73M2 IR and 400 R-77-1 and there are longer range russian missiles available too. It will take time till all platforms are integrated with Derby ER and main advantage I see is cost and flexibility.

Also we will need Russians too to do this.. we will not be doing it without them being aware of it. I hope it's been discussed with them too.

The upgraded new version of R-77-1 and R-77-M have more range and are much advanced than anything PAF have. Derby ER is certainly better than R-77-1 but then the other variant R-77-m have more range.

Python or IRIS T are two IR missile which Iwish had made in instead of ASRAAM .

But with R-73 M2 ASRAAM MICA IR in inventory IAF sure knows which one is better for them.

What I have understood so far is Astra mk1 was always a R-77 equivalent and to do better than it.

I wonder why it's IR version is still not on the menu.. hopefully soon.

We probably didn't buy R-77-1 but instead RVV-AE just to replenish stocks as stopgap.We did buy 100 Km plus Active version of R-27.
K77M is only for su-57 for now and would probably require a big super sukhoi upgrade deal for russians to give it to us.Its not even fully operational yet and is their next generation BVR.
Astra mk1 is touted as equal in range to R-77-1 and electronically better,as well as having 2 way datalink and indigenous asset.Its going to be counter to AMRAAM C-5 and will outclass sd-10.The Jf-17 bandar funnily can only carry 2 BVRs in Air to air configuration.
I-Derby ER is better than AMRAAM C-5 and has a really good seeker plus dual pulse motor.It will counter the PL-15 which is untested and will probably have larger max range but same NEZ.PL-15 with dual pulse motor,AESA seeker and 2 way datalink will be a challenge.It will be outclassed by meteor however.Chinese are also working on ramjet version.
Astra Mk2 will be proper counter to PL-15 with I-derby ER as stopgap.

The ASRAAM is a superb AAM,its kinematic performance and motor is so good its almost a a bvr with NEZ of 20-25 KM.The massive off boresight capability and advanced FPA seeker is also impressive.Python is very maneuverable but lesser kinematic ability.We had some problems integrating python on tejas due to vibration during launches.

 

[Flying Dagger]

We probably didn't buy R-77-1 but instead RVV-AE just to replenish stocks as stopgap.We did buy 100 Km plus Active version of R-27.
K77M is only for su-57 for now and would probably require a big super sukhoi upgrade deal for russians to give it to us.Its not even fully operational yet and is their next generation BVR.
Astra mk1 is touted as equal in range to R-77-1 and electronically better,as well as having 2 way datalink and indigenous asset.Its going to be counter to AMRAAM C-5 and will outclass sd-10.The Jf-17 bandar funnily can only carry 2 BVRs in Air to air configuration.
I-Derby ER is better than AMRAAM C-5 and has a really good seeker plus dual pulse motor.It will counter the PL-15 which is untested and will probably have larger max range but same NEZ.PL-15 with dual pulse motor,AESA seeker and 2 way datalink will be a challenge.It will be outclassed by meteor however.Chinese are also working on ramjet version.
Astra Mk2 will be proper counter to PL-15 with I-derby ER as stopgap.

The ASRAAM is a superb AAM,its kinematic performance and motor is so good its almost a a bvr with NEZ of 20-25 KM.The massive off boresight capability and advanced FPA seeker is also impressive.Python is very maneuverable but lesser kinematic ability.We had some problems integrating python on tejas due to vibration during launches.

An immediate order given for R-77 series wasn't for the older version but newer R-77-1 . R-77 with a streamlined nose, new active radar seeker head and fins it doesn't need any major modification to be used by the older platform carrying it. If you remember there were reports of IAF test firing three major russian missiles.

The other one was R-74 or R 73 M2 IR with range of 40 km .

R-27 max 120/130 km version may have been bought. There were some reports mentioning it. There was a third type of which 300 pieces were ordered.

Total 400 + 300+300 -- 1000 missiles are bought for around 1500 crores+

K 77 m or R 77 m right ? They aren't the awacs killer bro. The one meant for Su 57 is actually a compact version of it. The range of that might be compromised too there is not much info on it. And those missiles won't be just for Su 57 other platforms will also get it.

We already have test fired R-37M last year and have K 100 in small numbers. It was the third missile in the test IAF had last year. Russians have offered it to us as a stop gap. The range (300-400 km) is much higher than k77 m / R-77-M (160-190+ km) and is awacs killer.

Also an advanced variant of it will be developed.

You are right either K77 m isn't fully developed or IAF didn't showed interest in it else they must have offered it to us .

The other reason could be it's specified range might be similar to Derby ER and IAF preferred Derby ER .

These are thing we can only speculate right now.

I know Python issue with Tejas and have mentioned the same myself in this thread.. I think

Nor there is any doubt raised on ASRAAM capability but it is expensive as compared to other missiles.. except MICA I think which also comes from MBDA stable.

IRIS T was another lethal option with lesser price..anyway IAF knows the best and ma

This news of Lca integrating I derby ER isnt confirmed.

Is I Derby ER integrated on any Israeli plane?

Sent from my HD1901 using Tapatalk

Yes acc. To Rafael those platforms already certified for Derby can fire the ER version too. There isn't much modification that is required.

In short Tejas can fire Derby ER once FOC comes out. Mk 1a will have ER as it's prime weapon since the Elta 2052 is already confirmed there is not much that we will have to do . Mk1 will also carry these ER version later.. for sure.

 

[Raj Malhotra]

The only really long range AAMs which would have made a difference on 27th Feb are Russian R-37s.

 

[south block]

People should not go into long rang BS ---- there is no purpose of long range BVRAAM if you can't get a firing solution for such a long range ---- all these BVRAAM advertising there long ranges & NEZ are a big pile of :bs: --- nobody clarifies the altitude for the claimed range --- was it on lofted trajectory --- what speed fighter jet was at & on what altitude etc..etc.

 

[south block]

The only really long range AAMs which would have made a difference on 27th Feb are Russian R-37s.

Can SU 30 get a firing solution to guide R-37 to its claimed range in first place Hain!

 

[Prashant12]

Induction of Astra missile into IAF fleet will tilt the scales in India's favour against Pak

The Indian Air Force (IAF) has begun the process to procure and induct the indigenously developed Beyond Visual Range (BVR) Astra missile into its fleet. Along with induction of the Astra, it is also currently integrating the Israeli I-Derby Extended Range missile on its Su 30 MKI. Speaking to the media, IAF representatives explained that, along with the medium-range BVR MICA, and the long-range Meteor missile, India's air strike capabilities would be significantly enhanced with the Astra's induction.

The move comes over a year after the Balakot strike that saw Indian aircraft cross the Line of Control, enter into Pakistani airspace, and conduct a series of strikes in retaliation to a Jaish-e-Mohammad suicide bombing in the Pulwama district of Kashmir. What followed was a dogfight between Pakistani F16s, equipped with the American-made BVR missile, AMRAAM, and India's Su 30 MKI and Mirage aircraft. It was noted at the time that Pakistan's AMRAAM missile had higher capabilities than the R-77 and MICA, used by India's fleet.

Pakistan's AIM-120 C-5 AMRAAM missile, reportedly, has a maximum range of approximately 105 km. The MICA has a maximum range of just 50km, and the R-77, supposedly Russia's answer to the American missile, has a range of 80km.

https://www.timesnownews.com/india/article/induction-of-astra-missile-into-iaf-fleet-will-tilt-the-scales-in-indias-favour-against-pak/563588[URL]https://www.timesnownews.com/india/article/induction-of-astra-missile-into-iaf-fleet-will-tilt-the-scales-in-indias-favour-against-pak/563588[/URL]

 

[Flying Dagger]

The only really long range AAMs which would have made a difference on 27th Feb are Russian R-37s.

R-37m is an awacs killer how much effective it could be against a F-16 ?

Can SU 30 get a firing solution to guide R-37 to its claimed range in first place Hain!

R-37m can be guided by Sukhoi easily against a tanker/awacs by its own radar as they have a big RCS and can be tracked for longer range.

One doesn't have to track an aircraft for 250 km because meteor can travel to that range.. the real effective range is much lesser that that.

 

[south block]

R-37m is an awacs killer how much effective it could be against a F-16 ?

R-37 carry 60kg warhead ---- all it need to do is get close to its target & boom! fragmentation from warhead will destroy any Maneuvering plane to oblivion.

 

[Hydra3]

The only really long range AAMs which would have made a difference on 27th Feb are Russian R-37s.

Yeah, we should have killed their awacs in the first few second it self

 

[Hydra3]

People should not go into long rang BS ---- there is no purpose of long range BVRAAM if you can't get a firing solution for such a long range ---- all these BVRAAM advertising there long ranges & NEZ are a big pile of :bs: --- nobody clarifies the altitude for the claimed range --- was it on lofted trajectory --- what speed fighter jet was at & on what altitude etc..etc.

That almost not sure shot from f16 prevented su30mki going near loc on that day.