Astra BVRAAM

[BON PLAN]

radar-missile integration is required even if the missile is incapable of mid-course updates

YES. In this case the weapon system of the plane give to the missile the actual location of the target (if the target is near : to help the seeker to hold the target and then fire) or a futur one depending of the time to target if the seeker can't hold the target (low medium range)

 

[Enquirer]

NO.
Every customer received its own keys, so as to avoid a plane X to interfer with the missile fired by a plane Y.

That's what I was saying!!
My question was rhetorical.

The issue is for a potential foe to know the frequencies, the code ans so one used by your own data link.

A Meteor on MKI, if ever, need or to use a new west antenna on the plane to create the link with the missile, a totally black box system in with the plane weapon system only gave the location, speed and direction of the target and the black box system do its job all alone.
But don't imagine MBDA to give the russian the frequencies, the data encryption and so one used on Meteor : NEVER.

It's why i'm pretty sure you will never see a Meteor on MKI. And the russian have some potential solution for the near futur...

If it's a black box, then why is it a problem! The integration could be done by HAL, Russians don't even need to access the black box!
The frequency of communication is also not such an issue. The enemy aircraft carrying an EW suite for broad frequency ranges anyways - to jam radars and other communication devices.

 

[Enquirer]

YES. A new system, called "black box" in my precedent mail. Black box because it can't release the encryption system used by.

So, you agree that the missile can be integrated on a different plane without revealing the encryption system (the fear you were alluding to earlier).

 

[BON PLAN]

That's what I was saying!!
My question was rhetorical.


If it's a black box, then why is it a problem! The integration could be done by HAL, Russians don't even need to access the black box!
The frequency of communication is also not such an issue. The enemy aircraft carrying an EW suite for broad frequency ranges anyways - to jam radars and other communication devices.

Is there some space available? Are the russian OK to link it with the weapon system? who will make the job and the differents trys to calibrate it ? etc...

I think Meteor is a so new and so special weapon that no one in Europe want to put it on a russian or Chinese plane.
Same can be said about AASM.

 

[BON PLAN]

So, you agree that the missile can be integrated on a different plane without revealing the encryption system (the fear you were alluding to earlier).

With an add on box, probably .

 

[Enquirer]

Is there some space available? Are the russian OK to link it with the weapon system? who will make the job and the differents trys to calibrate it ? etc...

I think Meteor is a so new and so special weapon that no one in Europe want to put it on a russian or Chinese plane.
Same can be said about AASM.

It doesn't matter that it's a Russia designed plane! The end user is India - that France is normally willing to sell such advanced weaponry!
As I said earlier, India is fully capable of doing structural/electrical integration on Su-30MKI without involving the Russians.

 

[Pandeyji]

If it is limited to the Vympel rail that would limit Astra to Russian aircraft and make India dependent on them for it. I think it is nowhere close to done as an indigenous rail is being developed.

The Vympel launchers are already being used with Mirage 2k. So I don't see any issues with using them on Rafale. As for the mating with radars that is not much of an issue

 

[BON PLAN]

The Vympel launchers are already being used with Mirage 2k. So I don't see any issues with using them on Rafale. As for the mating with radars that is not much of an issue

These russian pylon are used for what kind of weapons? (first time I read that)

It's not a question of mating the missile inertial guidance unit with the datas of the radar just before to be fired than to give very sensible datas about a datalink for mid course refresh.

A WVR missile will be easily adapt, because the datas are transfered using very common interface.
A BVR missile is far more sensible. Any one able to jam a mid course data link has a definitiv ace over an ennemy. So no one want to give some information about this famous data link.

Even the USA didn't give access to that to the french about AMRAAM (it was a request of a potential foreign Rafale customer). France was not a so close ally....

 

[abingdonboy]

if India gets into a shooting war with China the few hundred Meteor and Mica the IAF will have on hand won't be enough. It will be good to have an adaptable indigenous rail that can be mounted on Rafale when it runs out of French made ordinance.

True but at the same time that’s why there re war reserves- enough for a few weeks of high intensity conflict. If a shooting war breaks out the first thing the IAF will do is make an emergency purchase of these critical ordnances and like we saw in Kargil France will step up for India.

There’s very few scenarios imaginable where the IAF runs out of foreign missiles.

 

[abingdonboy]

I take that you're in full agreement with what I posted.

That still leaves my side-question: What's happening to the hundreds of millions $$ worth ASRAAM missiles (not Mica as I incorrectly said previously) that were integrated on Jaguar few years back....now that ELM2052 is fitted on Jaguars? Perhaps UK is ok with integrating with Israeli radars...

Looks like IAF will integrate ASRAAM on Jags, LCA and MKI. The entire production line will probably shift to India in the near future too.

 

[Enquirer]

Looks like IAF will integrate ASRAAM on Jags, LCA and MKI. The entire production line will probably shift to India in the near future too.

It does appear that way.......

 

[Pandeyji]

These russian pylon are used for what kind of weapons? (first time I read that)

AFAIK mostly WVR AAM up until Astra. As for the data links & mating the weapons with the planes, IIRC India have achieved a lot of autonomy in that dept

 

[cyclops]

#Vayushakti2019 Su-30 MKI to fire Astra Air to Air Missile to simulate Air domination in a Tactical Battle Area

 

[cyclops]

DRDL made Astra seeker

 

[patriots]

First 50 Astra Mk-1 to be delivered by year end. IAF to place order of more than 500 Astra for Tejas, Su-30MKI, Mirage-2000-5 Mk-2, Rafale, Mig-29K/UPG

 

[Pandeyji]

First 50 Astra Mk-1 to be delivered by year end. IAF to place order of more than 500 Astra for Tejas, Su-30MKI, Mirage-2000-5 Mk-2, Rafale, Mig-29K/UPG

It feels so good to be proven right.

 

[Armand2REP]

First 50 Astra Mk-1 to be delivered by year end. IAF to place order of more than 500 Astra for Tejas, Su-30MKI, Mirage-2000-5 Mk-2, Rafale, Mig-29K/UPG

500 wouldn't be enough to equip all of those aircraft. When India ordered Mica for M2K it was 500. That order would be for Tejas.

 

[Kay]

Current IAF missile inventory is a mess. IAF would like to standardize missile inventory with ASRAAM, Astra, Derby, Meteor and maybe later with SFDR. Hopefully the French side agree on mating Meteor with Sukhois, otherwise we have to wait for SFDR to mature.

 

[AUSTERLITZ]

Current IAF missile inventory is a mess. IAF would like to standardize missile inventory with ASRAAM, Astra, Derby, Meteor and maybe later with SFDR. Hopefully the French side agree on mating Meteor with Sukhois, otherwise we have to wait for SFDR to mature.

MBDA wont accept meteor on sukhoi.Not on any russian and israeli radar.Only tejas if it has indian AESA.And mirage 2000.

 

[Armand2REP]

Current IAF missile inventory is a mess. IAF would like to standardize missile inventory with ASRAAM, Astra, Derby, Meteor and maybe later with SFDR. Hopefully the French side agree on mating Meteor with Sukhois, otherwise we have to wait for SFDR to mature.

IAF has wanted to get rid of the unreliable R-77 for a long time. Astra is the natural candidate to replace that. There is little reason to have the inferior Derby either. There is no replacement for MICA IR as that is the only way to counter stealth aircraft at BVR. Meteor will never fly on a Russian aircraft so you can forget about that.