Aryan Invasion Hypothesis

[Srinivas_K]

It does and your assertion is plain wrong. What is your mother tongue?

Lets agree to disagree mate, I have presented enough reasoning !!

I am Telugu!!

 

[Pratap]

Lets agree to disagree mate, I have presented enough reasoning !!

I am Telugu!!

The reason I asked about your mother tongue is to make you explain things better. What are Telegu terms for one to ten ( please do this ) ?

 

[Srinivas_K]

The reason I asked about your mother tongue is to make you explain things better. What are Telegu terms for one to ten ( please do this ) ?

I see you have done some research work on linguistics , kudos to that.

But what ever points I have raised are also valid.

 

[Pratap]

I see you have done some research work on linguistics , kudos to that.

But what ever points I have raised are also valid.

My bro, you raised a point that we adopt words of English in our langauge and hence we share common words. The problems are

1. Modern age is way advanced than bronze age and we know what is happening in Crimea in seconds, but during those times , even princes did not know about death of kings for weeks due to distance. So until and unless, some people move no common words can be shared in ancient times.

2. When we use words of English like contract for Vyavahar, we do have the native word , but in our case all root words of all Indo European langauges are similar and there is no replacement thus indicating common origin.

3. How come Greek and Latin sharing "septam" with Sanskrit Saptam for seven when Telegu has something different? Greece is many times farther than Telegu areas from north, so how do they share this but not neighbouring telegus or mundas?

4. Finally, we may adopt english words but we never adopt pronouns. Do we say " you kal aa jana" or " she bahut smart girl hai" . No, sharing of pronouns among IE lanaguges has rendered your point useless. Lithuanian has Tu for you just as Hindi or Urdu which has tum . Do you now see the relation?

 

[A chauhan]

Yes but I can not debate with absentees and who just talk on genetics. There is plethora of evidence for AIT. Since you are so sure of genetics proving AIT wrong, show me a single link that says that Ancestral South Indian( better name should be proto Indian) is even 10 percent among Europeans. Most of links are dubious and I can see Internet being infested with as much nonsense on " AIT proven wrong as per genetics" as a public woman with syphilis.

You are rejecting genetic studies ? which specific genetic study rejecting AIT is nonsense in your views?

 

[Pratap]

You are rejecting genetic studies ? which specific genetic study rejecting AIT is nonsense in your views?

Look, R1A1a is y DNA haplogroup and originated in somewhere between Ukraine and Kazakhastan. Interestingly, it exists at high frequency among groups who are speakers of Indo European lanagugaes and everyone in world( Iranainas, Russians, Germans British) accepts that it is " aryan marker" and hence instead of genetics proving AIT wrong, it solidifies the AIT . Additionally, there is no ASI among European groups and it kills OIT completely.

 

[A chauhan]

Look, R1A1a is y DNA haplogroup and originated in somewhere between Ukraine and Kazakhastan. Interestingly, it exists at high frequency among groups who are speakers of Indo European lanagugaes and everyone in world( Iranainas, Russians, Germans British) accepts that it is " aryan marker" and hence instead of genetics proving AIT wrong, it solidifies the AIT . Additionally, there is no ASI among European groups and it kills OIT completely.

I asked you which specific genetic study is a nonsense in your views ? I didn't ask your PoV on this, that is irrelevant.

 

[Mad Indian]

Look, R1A1a is y DNA haplogroup and originated in somewhere between Ukraine and Kazakhastan. Interestingly, it exists at high frequency among groups who are speakers of Indo European lanagugaes and everyone in world( Iranainas, Russians, Germans British) accepts that it is " aryan marker" and hence instead of genetics proving AIT wrong, it solidifies the AIT . Additionally, there is no ASI among European groups and it kills OIT completely.

This is why half know ledge is more dangerous than full. You are right that The R1A1 y haplotype is shared by indo europrans. But all it proves is that indians and europeans had a common anscestor. It does not say whether the Europeans came from here to there or whether they moved from europe to india.

Unfortunately for AIT, there are further tests within the haplotype prevalence genetic study which spells its death knell called the study of variations in the R1A1... you see, when a off shoot population descends from a parent population, it will inherit the characters of tbe parent population . But both of them will undergo mutations... as the time progresses, the offshoot will start showing different variations in genetic inheritance... so it is possible to determine which of the two populations is theparent by determining which has more variations... how do you think scientists came toconclusions that modern humans originated from africa? They came to the conclusion because Africans show the highest variations in genetics. Hence they would have been the home of the ancestors. . The rationale is that, the newer the population group, the more homogenous it will be or in other words less variations it will have...


Since genetic studies show that the variations in rhe genetic make up of indians are more than that in the genetics of europe or russia, the only conclusion is that people migrated from India to there and not the other way around. ..

Hence the present genetics prove that europeans and indians descended from common ancestors and they migrated from indo iranian plain into Europe. ..


Also the time line of the migration makes the AIT entirely unlikely... because as per genetics, no new migration happened to india in the last 12000 years... so AIT which clajms aryans came to india only in 1500 bce is complete shit.. it was propagatrd by Briish to justify their occupation of india- claiming that Indians themselves were migrants into the subcontinent and dravidians are the original indians- .ie since indians are invaders we can also invade it... genetic studies have made it clear that there was no such thing as dravidian race..


Also since the migrarion happened before 12000 years IVC was Entirely indian and not dravidian as claimed by pseudo dravidian chauvinists... this makes vedas indians and not somethig brought by europeans mgirating as aryans as claimed by AIT.....

PS: I am a tamil nationalist who also first thought that this thread is the work of Hindu nationalists like you.. but only after reviewing the evidences did I came to conclusion that AIT is ape shit.. but we have to blame the stupid education system for the present mis understanding of our culture...


If any thing we should be angry at the british dogs /nazis for stealing our glorious culture as their own...

 

[A chauhan]

@Mad Indian

Hindu nationalists like you.

Usernames do not decide the religion, I hope you get what I mean.

 

[Mad Indian]

u@Mad Indian



Usernames do not decide the religion, I hope you get what I mean.

I dint say he was a Hindu nationalist. I just said I also thought this thread was the result of Hindu nationalists, just like he is thinking...

But the truth is more important than who is telling...

 

[Pratap]

I asked you which specific genetic study is a nonsense in your views ? I didn't ask your PoV on this, that is irrelevant.

There is no scientific genetic study that says that Indians migrated to Europe some 6000 years ago so it is simple.

 

[Pratap]

I dint say he was a Hindu nationalist. I just said I also thought this thread was the result of Hindu nationalists, just like he is thinking...

But the truth is more important than who is telling...

Only Hindu natioanlists deny AIT .

 

[Mad Indian]

Only Hindu natioanlists deny AIT .

SO?

Only copernicus thought earth went around the sun in 16th century

Anyway you are wrong. Almost all neutral scientists agress now that AIT/AMT is crap... it Includes non indian ones as well. Only dravidian parties and some anti nationals think AIT is true. Its a matter of survival for them.

Think about it you are asking for votes under an imaginary race and all of a audden evidence comes along that the race is non existent- how can you save face except by attacking the messenger?

 

[Pratap]

SO?

Only copernicus thought earth went around the sun in 16th century

Anyway you are wrong. Almost all neutral scientists agress now that AIT/AMT is crap... it Includes non indian ones as well. Only dravidian parties and some anti nationals think AIT is true. Its a matter of survival for them.

Think about it you are asking for votes under an imaginary race and all of a audden evidence comes along that the race is non existent- how can you save face except by attacking the messenger?

I did not attack Hindu nationalists . Just because AIT is used by anti nationals( the reason they use it is because of people like A Chauhan and you who are hell incompetent to put things in right persepective , a trait shared by many Indians) does not make theory itself wrong. Ever heard of Panini? Linguistics? Go to your university library and open any book of linguistics and see where you are living.

 

[Mad Indian]

I did not attack Hindu nationalists . Just because AIT is used by anti nationals( the reason they use it is because of people like A Chauhan and you who are hell incompetent to put things in right persepective , a trait shared by many Indians) does not make theory itself wrong. Ever heard of Panini? Linguistics? Go to your university library and open any book of linguistics and see where you are living.

why aee you running with ad hominems? Cant counter the points huh???

Also your linguistics provide zero evidence on WHEN the migration happened or how it happened(direction)

I dont need linguistics anyway as I am a doctor and I believe in genetic evidence more than anything. AIT/AMT is disproved by genetic facts and not some shitry assumptions and declarations of people with identity issues; )

 

[Pratap]

This is why half know ledge is more dangerous than full. You are right that The R1A1 y haplotype is shared by indo europrans. But all it proves is that indians and europeans had a common anscestor. It does not say whether the Europeans came from here to there or whether they moved from europe to india.

Almost all reputed genetic scientists agree that it originated in Volga region and some western Eurasian component arrived into India some 12,000 years ago followed by a stronger wave in early Bronze age. Even common sense tells that if Indians and Europeans are related, it must be migration from Europe to India.

Unfortunately for AIT, there are further tests within the haplotype prevalence genetic study which spells its death knell called the study of variations in the R1A1... you see, when a off shoot population descends from a parent population, it will inherit the characters of tbe parent population . But both of them will undergo mutations... as the time progresses, the offshoot will start showing different variations in genetic inheritance... so it is possible to determine which of the two populations is theparent by determining which has more variations... how do you think scientists came toconclusions that modern humans originated from africa? They came to the conclusion because Africans show the highest variations in genetics. Hence they would have been the home of the ancestors. . The rationale is that, the newer the population group, the more homogenous it will be or in other words less variations it will have...

Rather useless as we are talking about migrations in neolithic age or bronze age not stone age. The reason R1A1 shows so much variation in India is because whereas the Europeans where closely knit , the Indians received it in waves and Chenchus and other tribals having this means that somewhere around 10-15 thousand years ago , the Indian population received it . The younger R1A1a does not show much variation as it was result of a homogenous transfer by Aryas to Indians . The Tamil Nadu Brahmins, Khatris, Pashtuns all have this haplogroup and it is uniform and does not show much diversity which is consistent with AIT.

Since genetic studies show that the variations in rhe genetic make up of indians are more than that in the genetics of europe or russia, the only conclusion is that people migrated from India to there and not the other way around.

In early ages some 50,000 years ago.

lso the time line of the migration makes the AIT entirely unlikely... because as per genetics, no new migration happened to india in the last 12000 years... so AIT which clajms aryans came to india only in 1500 bce is complete shit.. it was propagatrd by Briish to justify their occupation of india- claiming that Indians themselves were migrants into the subcontinent and dravidians are the original indians- .ie since indians are invaders we can also invade it... genetic studies have made it clear that there was no such thing as dravidian race..

Pure crap so far as genetics is concerned. As for British propaganda, it is because of us Indians that they had success and people like you are responsible for such crap . I will elaborate it more if you want to understand it a bit. Genetic evidence has shown that Dravidians are themselves intruders into south India.

Also since the migrarion happened before 12000 years IVC was Entirely indian and not dravidian as claimed by pseudo dravidian chauvinists... this makes vedas indians and not somethig brought by europeans mgirating as aryans as claimed by AIT.....

IVC was certainly not Indo Aryan and Dravidian connection is also weak.

: I am a tamil nationalist who also first thought that this thread is the work of Hindu nationalists like you.. but only after reviewing the evidences did I came to conclusion that AIT is ape shit.. but we have to blame the stupid education system for the present mis understanding of our culture...

We should also blame US, UK , Greece and Persian education system as they also learn that Aryas invaded their territory.

 

[Mad Indian]

There is no scientific genetic study that says that Indians migrated to Europe some 6000 years ago so it is simple.

Thats because scientific wvidence say that migrarion happened 12000 yrs back from indo iran to europe...

 

[Pratap]

why aee you running with ad hominems? Cant counter the points huh???

Also your linguistics provide zero evidence on WHEN the migration happened or how it happened(direction)

I dont need linguistics anyway as I am a doctor and I believe in genetic evidence more than anything. AIT/AMT is disproved by genetic facts and not some shitry assumptions and declarations of people with identity issues; )

So it is official now that we Indians are comfortable with our langauges being of foreign origin , only we do not want " whites" mixing with Indians and that too in bronze age. Enough of your crap and post a genetic link showing ASI among Europeans.

 

[Pratap]

Thats because scientific wvidence say that migrarion happened 12000 yrs back from indo iran to europe...

We are concerned with what happened in last 6 thousand years as that is the time when langauges are supposed to have developed.

 

[Pratap]

why aee you running with ad hominems? Cant counter the points huh???

It is you and your folk who have to explain how there is no ASI among Europeans, how Indo Aryan lanaguges share pronouns with langauges spoken in Lithuania and Russia but not in Tamil Nadu and that too in bronze age, how tribals and others have so low ANI .